EmergingSpirit's picture

EmergingSpirit

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Norm Seli: Will There Be Anything Else?

I wonder, as our congregations "emerge" - that is become more "emergent" and spirituality becomes more personal and authority more democratized - will there be a place for classically educated, former seminary students now ordained ministers?

I wonder about this a lot.

Not just because my pension depends on it.

In my congregation all manner of folk sit side by side, not disturbed by the fact that the woman sitting next to them does not have a developed Christology, the guy behind feels more comfortable with an "Eastern" expression of the Trinity, the woman taking up the offering doesn't believe in the physical resurrection of Jesus Christ and the fellow pouring coffee considers the day that he was "born again" to be the most important day of his life.

 

This, to my mind, is a good thing. We work together, we listen to each other and we celebrate our differences as well as our commonality. But we are still in the throes of an "authoritarian" church. Many people look to the minister (which is often me) to see if what Ms. SoandSo believes makes any sense and if what Mr. WhataboutThis believes is a threat to the church.

But what happens when or if that person (me) isn't around?

Who will say, "That's stupid!" when it is suggested that Jesus is the ultimate Leprechaun and we really should do more with St. Patrick's Day?

(Of course, "That's Stupid" would be expressed in a far more pastoral tone, and certainly appear to be said lovingly.)

What do we do when a congregation wants to shorten the year and celebrate Christeastermas all on one day in February - singing about how Jesus comes into the world, leaves, comes back, leaves and promises to come again...a Christological Peekaboo?

Who says, "Wait a minute, that's just goofy!"?

It is my experience that most people have spiritual experiences and ideas, but do not have a vocabulary to express these ideas; they are not often well versed in scripture, tradition, or theology. They need someone to help them learn, to find a ways to share their experience, and advice on how to pursue such experiences.

I have friends who eschew such "authority" and insist that we can be our own guides, that every experience shared is as valid as another and should not be held to any kind of critical light. If they were to go to any kind of church, it would be a church without authority, it would be one where people's ideas are shared and honoured equally. If such a church could ever exist, I don't think that I would want to be part of it.

I'm a wine drinker (how was that for a smooth segue?). I'm also a wine taster. I gather once a month with other wine tasters, we taste wines and we share with each other what we are tasting. We talk of great wines that we've had and about horrible wines with which we were assaulted. And we use words and expressions like "wet dog," "barnyard," "pencil lead," "hints of hibiscus," when talking about the wine in our glass. We have learned a common language by which we can communicate taste and flavour. When I first began to taste wine, I would seek out a teacher and sit with him or her, listen to him describe the taste of wine and I would look for the things he described -- "tobacco," "tar and roses." I would go to the grocery store and smell produce so that I really did know what a mushroom, grapefruit, or a kiwi smelled like. I put my nose right up against a soaking wet dog so that I could understand what was meant when someone said "It has wet dog on the mid-palate." I did all of this because an authority invited me and instructed me to do these things, if I wanted to have his/her appreciation of wine. The teachers didn't tell me what wine to like or not to like, but they did teach me how to express my like or dislike, how to communicate my experience so that it could be meaningful for others and what to pursue as I became more aware of what I liked in wine and what I didn't know about wine.

That's the kind of emergent church for me. Not one where they serve wine, but one where there are teachers who are able to share with me their vast experience, insight, and formal learning, so that I can begin to appreciate my spiritual life, pursue spiritual experiences, and learn to share all of it with others. I want to hear from those who have more experience and training than I, so that I can benefit from their experience - not to walk in lock-step behind them, but hear about some of the roads that they have travelled. And when I bring out a bottle of Mexican Pinot Noir, I want somebody to warn me that I am about to make a very big mistake!

I think that there is a place for me and my kind in an emergent church, but it may be more the role of Sommelier than Chef or Maître d'.

Incidentally, feel free to send this whole blog back if it seems corked.

 

 

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RevJamesMurray's picture

RevJamesMurray

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Is the UCC emerging? I may see signs of it happening in a handful of congregations, but as a denomination it is definitely not on that track.As a denomination we are much closer to Unitarian-Universalism. Most Emergents would not be tolerated because they are not 'inclusive' enough. But then again, institutions are always the last to learn that the world has changed.

WaterBuoy's picture

WaterBuoy

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Like the firmament above ... full of supernova, blue-white giants, red dwarfs (demons?) and Black Holes (unknown space?); whose the carrier in all this that brings an ember out of all the ashes/aches and whines? Ancient pyre-car r'Eire? Consider that some whines are corked ... muffled by those that deny another's pain (ground into dirt), and then some are declared sinful if that is a whine of glee over some organic event horizon! Like the woman at the next table when the actress mimic'd some kind of intimate event ... you know the meaning ... I can't spit out the titles (Salle & something) ... my sole is limited and wearin thin ... about to bust out and bug mortals fore eve Ur moor! Ka Rob bet'Le? It is like a nit!

 

Did the ancients (aboriginals) have a better feel for spirit (thoughts and desires) than we do of this denied space of reverberation we call divined mind ... Song of Sole'Am'n ... it echos and receives new words sometimes just derived from old Ton Guis (tongues)? The signs, symbols and letters have changed and we haven't kept up with the thin connections ... spiritual space ... like non-existent on this side of the bowl (greisle)! They're there if yah dig for th'eM, then they begin to speak if yah don't skip over the floe to quick ... like whine held on the palate to stew!

 

Just outa the Box (quebit) like Isis ... old word for J' Zeus, even IO-nous (bound Light of soul), how does the bod' do this and spit out ID aL as ink'n, b'link'n and node ... Black Poll'd mystery ... Harry black OX of Celtic origins ... takes a bit of the demon to get the Eumerus out of it ... plasma-like think'n! Holy Cow of Night ... nothing to fear ... just a rest'n till dawn while 'e dreams of evergreen ... sleeves to lie upon. They'd never believe the words of anon existent bean Yack , or Jack just to mimic like the de vail's atire ... fabrication? Dimiurge to create and break m'n down into fecund Ur ... ancient bull ... Ur ... auroch in other tongues! Pet roues ... phaer rows on Horis zone? Love wins in the end and sucks up the light ... Zhi-m'n (shaman; Greek/shemen; Heb) can't resist from bean outside (san) IT all ... well halve the info for creation! The contained does all he can do to escape ... the cork is bleu 'n! Do we learn about containing all this as respect in church ... or did we blow the thought of cultivating man's kind ... now its mostly bull ... People of the Lie (as means to end)---Scott Peck!

 

Perhaps we live on the wrong side of the line where emotion is presented as sane (sane' that is in Heb; hate). I can hardly wait for conversion to cross, a stab of Pan's crossing Light .. that's Holy "T" nicked Tar of the Gods! Tea toa da lears? That'll bring a Stoic Lear without change for a tip on the future!

Pilgrims Progress's picture

Pilgrims Progress

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EmergingSpirit wrote:

It is my experience that most people have spiritual experiences and ideas, but do not have a vocabulary to express these ideas; they are not often well versed in scripture, tradition, or theology. They need someone to help them learn, to find a ways to share their experience, and advice on how to pursue such experiences.

I'm a wine drinker (how was that for a smooth segue?). I'm also a wine taster. I gather once a month with other wine tasters, we taste wines and we share with each other what we are tasting. We talk of great wines that we've had and about horrible wines with which we were assaulted. And we use words and expressions like "wet dog," "barnyard," "pencil lead," "hints of hibiscus," when talking about the wine in our glass. We have learned a common language by which we can communicate taste and flavour. When I first began to taste wine, I would seek out a teacher and sit with him or her, listen to him describe the taste of wine and I would look for the things he described -- "tobacco," "tar and roses." I would go to the grocery store and smell produce so that I really did know what a mushroom, grapefruit, or a kiwi smelled like. I put my nose right up against a soaking wet dog so that I could understand what was meant when someone said "It has wet dog on the mid-palate." I did all of this because an authority invited me and instructed me to do these things, if I wanted to have his/her appreciation of wine. The teachers didn't tell me what wine to like or not to like, but they did teach me how to express my like or dislike, how to communicate my experience so that it could be meaningful for others and what to pursue as I became more aware of what I liked in wine and what I didn't know about wine.

That's the kind of emergent church for me. Not one where they serve wine, but one where there are teachers who are able to share with me their vast experience, insight, and formal learning, so that I can begin to appreciate my spiritual life, pursue spiritual experiences, and learn to share all of it with others. I want to hear from those who have more experience and training than I, so that I can benefit from their experience - not to walk in lock-step behind them, but hear about some of the roads that they have travelled. 

I couldn't agree more. Your congregation is lucky to have you.

A minister you can discuss your spiritual experiences with, whilst getting footnotes on the excellent red wine you're drinking - that's my idea of Heaven!