Jesus of the many worlds

Posted on: 06/24/2009 21:46

The Bible speaks of many realities besides the one with which we are familiar. It speaks of heaven and earth and hell, of course, but it also speaks of "a new heaven" and "a new earth" as well as "new heavens," Sheol, "God's Kingdom" a "New Jerusalem," the "bundle of the living" and God's court, to name but a few of its alternative realities. I like to connect up such notions with the possibility of multiple universes of which modern Astronomy, Cosmology and Physics make us aware. I think Christians who interpret the scriptures as indicating that this universe is the only universe are overlooking the wider possibilities of God's creative action indicated in the Bible. I think that this universe might only be one of a great many possible universes that God has created (and is creating). I think the defining characteristic of this universe is that God's presence in it is not obviously and incontrovertibly apparent. I think that the practical result of this is that our world can with equal reasonableness appear as the product of natural forces, or the product of divine intelligence. Thus, I have no quarrel with naturalists/materialists/atheists. They are simply responding to a valid way of looking at the world given its fundamental ambiguity. Another by-product of this ambiguity is that this world can contain evil. Obviously any reality/universe in which God's reality was completely obvious and apparent would be a perfect world (like a Heaven, or a New Jerusalem, etc), but it would most certainly not be this world. The main challenge that people have posed to God through the ages, known as the Problem of Evil, is why God allows suffering and evil. I think God allows suffering because God makes naturalistic worlds like this one (in addition to perfect worlds like heavens, or new Jerusalems, etc). I think this is morally justified because it would be wrong for God to make only perfect realities and to deny the possibility of existence to all imperfect (i.e. naturalistic) worlds (and the unique individual imperfect beings that make them up, such as me). However, my belief in this ethical obligation and my belief that God has carried it out leaves me with a terrible conclusion--my existence as a unique imperfect being can only occur at the cost of the specific sufferings that go into making a world that can include me (i.e. a naturalistic world like this one). Literally, every innocent person in this imperfect world is suffering so that I can exist in my unique imperfect way (and all those imperfect beings who and that I love can only exist in their own unique imperfect ways). My only way out of this crushing guilt--Either I can believe there is no God and no ultimate reason for existence (whew, so there's no problem, but also no ultimate purpose for all this mess), or I can believe in a God who redeems all those who suffer, so that I can live. Undoubtedly, I think part of this latter possibility would have to involve God's sympathetic understanding of our suffering as we experience it (after all how could he make a judgement whether he should make imperfect worlds with finite imperfect sentient creatures in them without truly understanding what they would have to go through). I think Christ is our understanding and belief that God has and can fulfil such an obligation of solidarity. What do you think?

philosophy

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Comments

RussP

Posted on: 06/25/2009 08:50

First, I agree that we are only one universe in a sea of multiverses, each with different physical laws and natures.

I believe in IT, the Kosmic GAIA if you will. Marcus Borg's notion of God.

IT is not an interventionist God. IT doesn't need, want or care if we pray to IT. Prayer is mainly a way of making us feel good and connecting with others in a positive way. Our collective souls/spirits are what form the consciousness of IT, all beings, not just man, and not just on this planet.

IT is everywhere in teh universe and as we are in the universe we are, at the same time, both in God and God in us. We are part of God and God is part of us.

The universe was created. IT had no intention of making it perfect or imperfect, IT made the universe. What is playing out in this universe is what will naturally occur. The universe evolves according to laws set down by IT for this one universe. Good, evil, wars, destruction are not preplanned but are simply what naturally occurs. If mankind is wise enough to rise above petty squabbling, Heaven wil be on Earth. If not, we will die out. In some other universe, we did, in others, we never happened, the dinosaurs survived.

We die, our souls (brain energy?) go ??????? That we will have to wait, and I plan to be around for a while, to find out.

Russ

bygraceiam

Posted on: 06/27/2009 19:21

Hello jgerries God bless you...

I agree with a lot of what you are saying, it seems most churches have taken out the idea of others worlds, other life , the mystical and supernatural abilities of God, if God was not supernatural/mystical full of Power nothing would exist..I think it is ignorant of people to think it is just us in the universe..way , way more exists, I consider myself a Christian, I believe in the Father, Son & Holy Spirit, I do believe that Angels are real and that they minister to us all the time..I think that the Spiritual world does indeed exist and it is through God we learn of its existence..

I believe that we can become Spiritual enough God will reveal more and more of this Spiritual world to us ..

I have a teaching blog, not completely christian but with Christian doctrine , I do teach on all different subjects , hope you will drop by and visit, let me know what you think I sure could use some objective readers who believe in more then just this world...

http://godstherealthing.blogspot.com

It is worth joining up for I believe you will enjoy the difference of teachings..it doesnt cost anything to sign up ..hope to hear from you...

IJL: Betty Jean..

jgerrie

Posted on: 07/04/2009 21:45

Cool. I'm not sure about the interventionist God. Things seem to carry on as they must, and the world as I have experienced it certainly seems law-bound, at least to a significant degree. However, I think the Newtonian vision of atoms bouncing around in a completely perfect geometrical fashion just doesn't do justice to the real complexity of things. One only has to mention the phrase "quantum mechanics" to make this point. The problem of free-will versus determinism facinates me. It's one of the reasons I appreciate John Calvin (happy 500th Johnny!)--he faced this philosphical conundrum squarely, unlike so many of us. That being said, it remains a puzzle. At the very least I think it is possible for laws to exist and naturalism to be the defining characteristic of this universe, but that this does not preclude the possibility that God can also "intervene." At the very least he does intervene by our imaginative consideration of the possibility of his/her/it's existence. Imagination and reason combined give us some potential access to God. If this is true, then there is the possibility for God interacting with even a completely naturalistic world like this one.

For me imagination + reason + tradition (as the passing along of the previous two within a community) = revelation. The Bible is an extremely early and longstanding account of the ongoing human conversation about the possibility of the divine. It is "authoritative" in the sense that all and any sincere human records of this ongoing discourse should be consulted to the best of one's ability as one attempts to make one's own contribution to the conversation. One must also be prepared to make distinctions about prior records and I think the Bible is pretty good, and comes with the recommendation of many generations of consensus of various peoples of God .

In my way of thinking. I think at the very least angels would be a good name for the creatures of God's perfect universes, and of his "heavenly court." Now whether they can play any roll in our world, I am unsure, but if, as I have just said, I think such communication can take the form of the working of our imaginations and reasoning, then perhaps it is just as easy for angels to interact with us, as it is for God to interact with us.

Prayer for me is just 5 ways of usefully directing one's thoughts each day: Think of something to praise about the world, think about forgiveness (for oneself or others), think of something to give thanks for, think of something important to dedicate oneself to, and think of something important you want or would like to happen. In other words: Praise, Forgiveness, Thanks, Dedication and Petition or "Pray For That Dead Pet" for short. I find there are many psychological, emotional and practical benefits that come from directing my thought to these five subjects in a disciplined fashion on a daily basis

jgerrie

Posted on: 07/04/2009 22:13

Russ, I like your idea of our being in God and God being in us. I guess what I see is something similar. God brings into existence worlds simply by "thinking" them (the old philosophical notion of Idealism). Kind of like virtual reality, except, God's thought makes our reality while we also actually live it ("actual reality"?). I kind of see God as the editor, who goes through all the "tape" and simply cuts out the bad bits. When we die we join with God in a fashion that we can participate in "viewing" all the good bits, while also still somehow maintaining a certain sense of our individuality. We can thus also view all our "parallel selves," and all the possible lives of others with their almost infinite possibilities. I think, since we somehow maintain some of our individuality (rememberance of the harms resulting from our lives), our ability to enjoy the panaply of alternative realities is coloured appropriately by regrets arising from the knowledge of how things could have gone better if we had been different or made different choices. In other words, no Dante's inferno, just an appropriate level or remorse and regret that will lessen an otherwise potentially completely postive set of experiences. Two philosophical problems that haunt me: 1. What would Hitler experience in my vision of heaven and hell and would this be a just fate for him? 2. Is my vision really just a vision of a "courch potato" heaven (heaven as being eternally curled up with God on the couch watching re-runs of old movies on the most amazing home-entertainment system ever--actual reality TV) and is there something wrong with this image or is it a helpful up-dating of the visioning of heaven and hell?