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COMPARING TWO PROGRESSIVE CHRISTIAN AUTHORS

COMPARING TWO PROGRESSIVE CHRISTIAN AUTHORS

 

With or Without God by Gretta Vosper, and Emerging Church by Bruce Sanguin have been discussed at length during the last year on Wondercafe. 

 

Vosper and Sanguin both identify as Progressive Christians, but outline different paths to follow in this new paradigm.  Their ideas about God, Jesus, the Bible, spiritual development, leadership and change, and the future of the Christian church are interesting to compare.

 

SANGUIN AND VOSPER:  IDEAS ABOUT GOD

 

In the first chapter of WWG, Gretta writes eloquently about the spiritual dimension of life.  “Within that dimension we know and celebrate relationships, explore meaning, develop our value systems and experience love … this spiritual dimension causes us to explore what is utterly beyond description; we try to pin it down with words such as Spirit, the Ground of all Being, Ultimate Concern, the Divine and God.”

 

Is there a reality, external to human beings, which we can call spirit or Spirit?

 

At this point, we are told that this question is beyond the scope of WWG.  However, in a later chapter, Gretta writes, “the ultimate post-modern critique is the disintegration of the concept of God altogether”.

 

She urges us to understand God as a human construction, and suggests that we cease using the word God completely. Alternatively, small “g” god can be utilized to describe a set of life enhancing values.  “Unlike the former God, this one has no agency.”

 

Referring to authors Lloyd Geering and Don Cupitt, she poses the questions  - - What does the church look like beyond Christianity, and more radically yet, what does Christianity look like beyond God?

 

In Emerging Church, Bruce Sanguin does not encourage us to abandon talk of God.  As Doug Todd said in the Vancouver Sun,  “Sanguin, instead, pursues intellectually defensible ways to redeem God and Jesus from the conservative Protestants and Catholics who tend to dominate the news.  He does so with creative panache.”

 

On Page 57, Bruce writes:  “A-theism literally means not to believe in a theistic God, one who lives outside the cosmos, but who intervenes every once in a while to sort us out.  I don’t believe in that kind of God either.” 

 

Bruce started his life in Christ as a “born-again”.  He describes Marcus Borg’s earlier and emerging paradigms, and states, “I have experienced both ways of being a Christian.” 

 

When he describes the paradigm shift that the emerging Church is undergoing, Bruce describes it as a shift from a redemption-centred paradigm to a creation-centred paradigm, wherein God works through us, and we become God’s co-creators.  The universe is thus seen as evolving toward ever increasing complexity, beauty, diversity, consciousness and compassion.

 

 

SANGUIN AND VOSPER:  IDEAS ABOUT JESUS

 

Bruce states, “To be Christian is to set oneself and one’s community in an ongoing dialogue with Jesus and his teachings.”  He frequently refers to abundant life in Christ, and suggests that our lives can be transformed by wrestling with what has been passed down to us in the New Testament.

 

In contrast, Gretta writes,  “It is impossible to lift an appropriate moral high ground out of Jesus’ life, works, and sayings.”  She calls for a focus on life enhancing values, and encourages us to rely on our own best thinking.

 

 “I think that in a generation or two we might stop using the term Christian”, she told Charles Lewis of the National Post.  “The central story of Christianity will fade away,” Gretta explained.  “The story about Jesus as the symbol of everything that Christianity is will fade away.”

 

Gretta is seeking to reduce the Christian faith and other traditions to their core values.  She is very much opposed to Christian imperialism, yet this could represent imperialism of another sort - - if taken to the extreme. 

 

In the study guide to WWG (available on the CCPC website for a small fee), Scott Kearns poses the questions, “How might progressive views deteriorate into a new “dogma”?  How can this result be avoided?” 

 

These are good questions, indeed, and we can applaud Scott for asking them.

 

SANGUIN AND VOSPER:  IDEAS ABOUT THE BIBLE 

 

In the process of spiritual renewal, Bruce’s congregation affirmed that the whole Bible, including the Old Testament, was central to their identity. 

 

Bruce recognizes that the Bible seems to sanction violence, with God actually carrying out some of this violence.  He reminds us that the Bible is a collection of books, which has itself been subject to an evolutionary process. 

 

Echoing the words of Marcus Borg, Bruce states that Bible study is extremely important if we are to take the bible seriously, but not literally.  In his opinion, mainline churches are too complacent about teaching biblical literacy (not to be confused with literalism).  “As Christians, we have a sacred story that is the context of our own life stories, and we need to learn it.”

 

His church offers an ongoing program that is primarily focused on the content of the Bible.  There is also a continuous study program that focuses on personal transformation.  Participants learn to read the stories metaphorically.  Bruce feels that most mainline church members have never learned to read scripture this way. 

 

In With or Without God, Gretta devotes many pages to disputing the concept of the Bible as TAWOGFAT  (The Authoritative Word of God For All Time).  She expresses concern about interpretations of the bible that have led to tribalism and religion’s destructive aspects.  She notes the assumption that God exists, which “permeates the whole book.” 

 

Gretta compares the bible to the works of Shakespeare, and she doesn’t consider it to be pivotal for Christian faith.  We are told that the bible is not reliable as a source of moral guidance, and Jesus is described as “a first century peasant with a few charismatic gifts and a great posthumous marketing team”.

 

Doug Todd wrote in the Vancouver Sun, "Instead of exploring Christian "belief" in the transcendent possibilities associated with "God" and a cosmic Christ, Vosper argues at length that her church should debunk divinity and focus on ethics: on community, justice and truth."

 

 

SANGUIN AND VOSPER:  IDEAS ABOUT SPIRITUAL DEVELOPMENT

 

Bruce Sanguin uses the work of Dr. Clare W. Graves, who noticed that worldviews and value systems evolved in a developmental fashion.  Human societies and biological life forms “escape to a higher order” as they deal with new challenges and life conditions.  Graves called his model Spiral Dynamics.   Don Beck later introduced colour coding of the values systems, which Bruce explains in Emerging Church.

 

In Chapter 6 of WWG, Gretta refers to the work of developmental psychologist James Fowler, who described stages of faith.  She aligns Marcus Borg’s stages of pre-critical naiveté, critical thinking, and post-critical naiveté with Fowler’s stages 3, 4 and 5 respectively. 

 

SANGUIN AND VOSPER:  IDEAS ABOUT LEADERSHIP AND CHANGE

 

Gretta is calling for a major shift in the understanding and practice of Christian faith.  Her website is currently inviting applications for a pilot project, described as follows: 

 

 “A "next step" in the work of shifting the worship and practice of Canadian mainline Christianity from its primary focus on traditional Christian doctrine and story to one celebrating the non-exclusive principles of compassionate living and right relationship with self, others, and the planet.”

 

Writing in WWG about the magnitude of the change, she says, “Broad-vision change is not “new curtains” window-dressing change but real, deep down “this is going to hurt” change.  It can be liberating and refreshing, but it comes with costs …    Much will be lost, now and in the future, but it will have been sacrificed for our own good and for the good of the planet.”

 

In her own words, she extends WWG as a confrontation, which will challenge, disturb, hurt, and anger her readers.  She tells us:  “Sometimes being difficult is the only way forward.  I know this book is difficult.  I know it will cost much to those of you who are active in the church.”

 

Later in the book, we hear, “There is going to be trouble.  It is bound to get ugly”.

 

She calls for patience and perseverance in introducing progressive perspectives.  As a group of people walks in this direction, she advises, “Remember, for the most part, they are not willingly along for the walk.  Change is not a welcome program.”

 

Gretta stresses the importance of mitigating the negative effects of change.  “To eliminate them would be impossible, and it is ridiculous to suggest that we could.”  A slow and careful process of change is recommended.  Details of the change process can be found in the Toolbox (Appendix), which outlines elements of a non-theistic gathering.  A gradual shift to non-theistic concepts, language and liturgy is recommended. 

 

Bruce Sanguin details a participatory process in Emerging Church, which begins with the selection of a “think tank”.  At his own church, the think tank was handpicked, and some participants in the Wondercafe book study disagreed with this approach. 

 

We were privileged to have Anna Christie, the author of Evoking Change, with us for part of the book study.  Her preference is to offer leadership training and development to anyone in the congregation who is interested.

 

It is the task of the think tank to determine a set of “non-negotiables”.   For Bruce’s congregation, they were: ongoing dialogue with Jesus and his teaching, the centrality of both Old and New Testaments, an open communication table, discipleship and mission. 

 

“These non-negotiables are the very heart and mind of Christ and will be tested later in the process by taking them to the congregation.” 

 

A world café process is used next to gather input for the creation of a statement of mission and purpose.  A draft is done, reviewed by the think tank, and taken to the congregation for feedback.  It is rewritten as necessary, and finally the congregation is asked to approve it. 

 

The practices of the congregation are evaluated against the statement of mission and purpose.  In the latter chapters of the book, Bruce describes ongoing leadership development, ongoing spiritual formation, teaching of biblical literacy, and a new governance structure.

 

SANGUIN AND VOSPER:  IDEAS ABOUT THE FUTURE OF CHURCH

 

Sanguin is calling for a shift from a redemption-centred theological model to a creation-centred evolutionary Christian theology.  Congregations thus become centres of creative emergence, and evolve from a membership model to a discipleship model.  We can become the radiant presence of Christ for each other and for the world. 

 

Gretta’s focus is non-theism, centred on life-enhancing values.  She agrees with Lloyd Geering, who says that non-theism not only grows out of the Christian tradition, it is the only logical next step for the church to take. 

 

What will the future church look like? 

 

Bruce writes, “The radically inclusive ethic of Christ in the 21st century, expressed in the open table, is creating new forms, new understandings of what it means to be “in Christ”.  Honestly, I don’t know what to make of it yet.”

 

Gretta does not talk about being “in Christ”, referring instead to becoming radically inclusive and radically ethical.  Her vision calls for the distillation of Christianity and other faith traditions down to their core values of love and compassion.  She would like us to “bring all that we have together, and leave the religious detritus of our traditions behind us”. 

 

Charles Lewis wrote in the National Post that Gretta envisions a time when there will be no religious divisions or labels, everyone will share common values, and our only differences will be cultural. 

 

She speculates that eventually, the word “church”, like the word “God”, might be beyond redemption.  The final paragraph of WWG hints at a time when church will no longer exist, and we will be able to face a future without it with confidence and grace.

 

January 2009

 

The tradition of Wondercafe book studies is now continuing with Diane Butler Bass’ Christianity For the Rest of Us.  Participants are taking turns posting chapter-by-chapter summaries, and inviting comments in the Religion and Faith forum.

 

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Arminius's picture

Arminius

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Hi paradox3:

 

I start with answering your first question first, "Is there a reality, external to human beings, which we call Spirit?"

 

I don't know whether I'm not progressive enough, or perhaps too progressive for the CCPC, but I think they have forgotten about the most important ingredient in spirituality, which is Spirit—with a capital "S". And I don't understand why this should be beyond the scope of a book entitled "With Or Without God?" Spirit, to me, is God!

 

I do, however, believe that the reality called "Spirit" is not only external, but also internal. I believe in a spiritual universe, the material and spiritual universe as one Kosoms, which I like to spell with a "K" to differentiate IT from the conventional concept of a cosmos that is material only, with Spirit as a separate quality.

 

In the self-generative or self-transformative Kosmos, Spirit is unfolding or evolving both in this world and as this world. The world that Spirit has created by and out of ITself is evolving, and Spirit ITself is self-evolving along with it.

 

And, best of all, we humans, as inseperable parts of Kosmos, can be co-evolvers in this sacred process of Kosmic evolution.

 

Bruce Sanguin hit what Spirit is about bang on, but Gretta Vosper missed it. Her "spiritual" ideology is devoid of Spirit. I would say her ideology is secular humanism, which is great, but has little to do with Spirit. In terms of Bruce's Spiral Dynamics, Gretta's book and ideology is typical of Bruce's Orange stage of spiritual, cultural evolution.

 

Sure, the word "God" is a human construction, and so is the word "Spirit," and so are the concepts we have built around these words. But the experience that is behind these concepts, the expereince of Spirit, is very real and absolutely true, and is the foundation for these concepts, and for any genuine spirtuality.

 

Gretta's book is lacking this foundation. Without it, her book is mere ideology, part of the illusiory world of concepts, lost, without any firm grounding in the ultimate truth of spiritual experience.

 

More next time,

 

In Kosmic Consciousness,

 

Arminius

paradox3's picture

paradox3

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Hi Arminius, 

 

Thanks for your post.  I believe in the reality of Spirit which is both internal and external to human beings.  I have no doubt that God lives in our subconscious minds, but I do not think that this is all God is. 

 

Here is a wonderful poem about language:

 

 

The Cool Web

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Children are dumb to say how hot the day is,
How hot the scent is of the summer rose,
How dreadful the black wastes of evening sky,
How dreadful the tall soldiers drumming by,

But we have speech, to chill the angry day,
And speech, to dull the roses's cruel scent,
We spell away the overhanging night,
We spell away the soldiers and the fright.

There's a cool web of language winds us in,
Retreat from too much joy or too much fear:
We grow sea-green at last and coldly die
In brininess and volubility.

But if we let our tongues lose self-possession,
Throwing off language and its watery clasp
Before our death, instead of when death comes,
Facing the wide glare of the children's day,
Facing the rose, the dark sky and the drums,
We shall go mad, no doubt, and die that way.

    -- Robert Graves
Arminius's picture

Arminius

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Hi paradox 3: Thank you for this profound poem by Robert Graves!

 

Yes, speech is the blessed medium that allows us to communicate and commune, to share our Spiritual hearts and minds, and keep each other sane—and divine.

 

Thanks be to God.

Pilgrims Progress's picture

Pilgrims Progress

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Hi paradox3,

I'll be getting a copy of Bruce Sanguin's Emerging Church this week - so I found your summary interesting.

I see our spirituality as an evolving process - and it's already apparent that to define yourself as " progressive" leaves as many questions as it does answers. (Sanguins ideas on progressive clearly differ from Vospers.)

At this moment, I'm more aligned to Marcus Borg's views on spirituality/religion.(Does this make me a conservative progressive?)

Progressive Christianity must be gaining appeal in Canada for you to have such well - known authors. Sadly, this is not the case in Australia. Most people who define themselves as Christian have more orthodox views - and the majority of people are apathetic about any form of religion.

BigDave's picture

BigDave

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Hmmmmmmmm.............. I think Vosper is more in tune with what we currently call Christianity is to become. It seems Sanguin is trying to reinvent or at least preserve Christianity in some form while Vosper is more comcerned with preserving a community of people in tune with Spirit (or spirit).

I prefer Vospers brand of progreessivism.

paradox3's picture

paradox3

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Hi BigDave, 

 

Thanks for your post, and for reading my blog.  I agree with your comments about Bruce Sanguin, but I would say that Gretta's focus is primarily on ethics (life enhancing values).  You are right about the community aspect of progressive spirituality in her system of thought. 

 

In WWG, Gretta acknowledges the influence of Lloyd Geering and Don Cupitt on her thinking.  I am curious about where these two authors stand on the future of faith communities.

 

What do you think that Christianity is to become?  Do you agree with Gretta's assertion that the story of Jesus as the central symbol of Christianity will fade away?

 

Thanks for contributing to this conversation about two brands of progressivism.  I have been thinking about your remarks, and have been back to edit this post a few times. 

 

You probably will not be surprised to hear that I prefer Sanguin's brand of progressivism.  I have disclosed many times on the discussion threads that I departed from West Hill United Church about three and a half years ago. 

Arminius's picture

Arminius

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"Progressivism," to me, is "evolutionary" or "process spirtuality," employing the evolutionary process of "transcend and include" and "development through envelopment," meaning that past evolutionary stages don't get discarded but carried forward into the next higher stage. Bruce Sanguin explains this beautifully.

 

Gretta Vosper, on the other hand, likens past paradigms to dirty trays in a cafeteria, gathering mould, and needing to be discarded.

 

Natural evolution doesn't work that way. And neither should cultural or spiritual evolution.

 

I believe that the highest and most sacred creativeness is to evolve consciosuness itself. I have dedicated myself to this endeavour, and I fully agree with Bruce that the principles of natural evolution also apply to the evolution of consciousness.

 

Gretta does, of course, make a lot of valid points in her book. I'll get to those in my next post.

Arminius's picture

Arminius

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Hi paradox3:

 

I somehow ended up on the CCPC mailing list. I don't see myself in that camp; the CCPC is either too progressive or not progressive enough for me. Sure, some of the gender bias and misogyny of the traditional Church needs to be cleaned up, and it seems that traditionalist religion crucified Goddess rather than God, and this needs to be remedied, but on the whole I am in favour of a balanced and integral approach that integrates science with spirituality and traditional religion.

 

Gretta pours out the proverbial baby with the bath water by discarding all tradition just to get rid of the traditionalist absolutism inherent in traditional Christianity. By doing that, she herself may be establishing her own brand of progressive absolutism.

 

All this being said, I consider Gretta's book a valuable addition to the emerging debate. She goes to extremes, but it is necessary to explore both extremes of any spectrum in order to find the balance. The disaster aspect of exploring extremes is not in the exploration of them but in getting hung up on one extreme or the other.

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