Hi RevKing:

I like your title: Philosophy, Science, and Art. Yes that's what Religion is: all three! A different sort of a Holy Trinty, eh?

A religion that is not scientifically plausible simply is not valid in our day and age.

Science-based philosophy is easily compatible with spiritual philosophy.

Because we are dealing with GØD as a zero entity in an ineffable state of synthesis, which we truthfully experience but can't define with absolute truthfulness, we have to resort to artistic expression when expressing our experience of the reality which is GØD.

Keep up the GØD WORK, RevKing!

Thanks for your comment, Arminius.

Check out today's National Post (Canada)

http://www.nationalpost.com/story.html?id=1136258

Kathie Rook tells the story of Pam Reynolds. Seventeen years ago, while having major surgery to rid her of a brain aneurism, Pam was declared clinically dead for an hour. Her vivid account of leaving her body is fortifying the hypothesis of scientists, with the International Human consciousness Project, who this year will begin a study that uses neuroscience to try and explain what happens in the brains of to those who cheat death.

DEFINING THE DIVINE

In another forum, a group of us are working on REDIFINING GOD. One participant asked:"One question in my mind is, does god also exist apart from, or transcendent from, the natural universe?"

WITH PREJUDICE OR JUDGMENT

Keep in mind that the following is strictly my opinion and is offered without any intention of being doctrinaire:

GOD IS NOT A NOUN

Rather than use the noun 'God', found and defined in our dictionaries, I prefer to use the acronym, GOD--all Goodness, all Order and Desirable things.

GOD is that which is without borders, dimensions, whatever. There is nothing, including that which appears to be evil, that ISN'T god.

Check out John 4: 7-30--the story of Jesus and the Samaritan Woman--where Jesus defines God as "Spirit". The Greek for Spirit is 'pneuma'--which literally means air, wind, breath. In Jesus day air was a thing of great mystery, not unlike what we have in mind, today, when we think about the vacuum of infinite space into which the universe is expanding.

GOD IS SPIRIT

In John 3--the story of Nicodemus--Jesus equates 'pneuma' (Spirit) with coming to conscious awareness of self--being born again, enlightened, raised to consciousness, inspired. As a GOD-filled person himself (Son of GOD) he called all, male and female, willing to listen, to be at one with him. See John 17-20-25.

Us? We are in the Spirit; that is, in the process of becoming who we really are--at one with GOD, in  the Now, in the Presence.

Hi RevKing: I had several near-death experiences myself, that took me to the edge of death, but never beyond, as the person in the above anecdote. Nevertheless, even at the threshold of death, I caught a glimpse of the "beyond," and my life has changed. I have not been afraid of death since.

Of course, God is not a noun but the Creative Spirit of the Cosmos, which is in us, and all around us, and yearns for us to become aware of IT.

And, Arminius, may I add: If, in our pride, we refuse to acknowledge our oneness with all that is,  to make the simple choice to be consciously aware of who we really are--one with Infinite Being--we will ever remain victims of the ego, the root cause of all evil, pain and suffering. The proper role of ego is as servant. When we allow ego to be our master it will be the source of the evil we do to ourselves and others.

Perhaps your are already aware of the writings of Eckhart Tolle: The Power of Now & A New Earth--Awakening to Your Life's Purpose.

In these and his talks, over and over again Tolle makes the point that just saying our prayers and asking a god, separate and apart from us, to "deliver us from evil" obviously does not work. The way Christians, Jews , Muslims, and others kill each other demonstrates this.  Prayers help, but not on their own. Neither does  positive thinking, on its own. By such means alone we will go on being trapped in the ego, which, I repeat is the source of all the pain, suffering and evil we pray to be delivered from.

The solution?

We need to learn how to dissolve the ego by making the following three simple choices--not unlike twelve steps advocated by all the leaders of the twelve-steps programs known as AA: 

1. Let us choose to be self-aware and in the now;

2. to surrender this self to all that is, to all Being;

3. to tune into, connect with all Being, all Presence, whenever we feel uneasy, regardless of how we feel, physically, mentally and spiritually. As spirit-like beings (pneumas) we can step back and observe what is going one in our painful bodies (somas) noisy minds (psyches),  including our sad and unhappy thoughts and feelings. This has a healing effect. Try it for twenty-one days or less and you will get results.

THE FOLLOWING IS OPTIONAL

BTW, it is OK to call this power God, Allah, The Lord, Father, GOD, G-d, Christ, Messiah, Adonai, Krishna, the Higher Power, The Tao, Nature, The Word, IT, Love, whatever, but you don't have to.

Regardless of what we call IT, the miracle of having peace of mind will be the result of making these three choices. Media: SPREAD THE WORD.

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Check out ET:

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Meanwhile:

http://www.jacquielawson.com/viewcard.asp?code=QJ35127968

Yes, RevKing, I have read both Tolle books, and even got a Tolle CD for Christmas, which I haven't listened to yet.

And yes, the ego needs to be in service of our greater, divine and godly self: the oneness of being.

Paradoxically, this "egolessness" leads to ultimate ego satisfaction, to inner and outer peace.

Hello RevKing......God bless you.....

Ego.....is this the reason we cannot ever be sin free in this world...is this what you believe ...if so...then how can we get to the point where we end the ego side of us ..

Ego...part of the consious mind asserting the self  or individual...I assume you are talking about the bad side of ourselves, selfishness, hatred, racism, greed, torment, hurting others to have the satisfaction of building up ones self...

I believer this side of the ego is taught to us by our parents or guardians...who were in charge of us during our growing years...when we seek God ..it is the One that teaches us through the Holy Spirit the Right way of Living ....which of course is Love for God is Love....but if this is true that it is ego and we can get control of our ego's to the point we are good individuals as God wants us to be ..Love....then how come we cannot get rid of sin altogether....but the Lord says we always will sin ..until we reach the other side of the journey....

Is the ego responsible for the  continueing  sin even thought we know as servants to the One God  we must renew our minds to the point of no sin...is no sin possible in this life time??

Is our objective in following God to continue to work on ourselves to become the Love God wants us to be....or will the ego always continue to go against the renewing of our minds or is this a train process we learned from living life...can it be brought under control ...as with Enoch and Elijah where they were taking by rapture for being rightous in the eyes of God...it might sound like a stupid question but can we get to  that point of conquering the ego part of ourselves...

IJL:bg

bygraceiam asks, "Ego.....is this the reason we cannot ever be sin free in this world...is this what you believe ...if so...then how can we get to the point where we end the ego side of us ..."?

bygraceiam, May I ask you to be my confessor?

If so, allow me to confess to you: You are talking to one who, for decades, has played the role of being a BIG ego. In many ways, I still am a BIG ego. However, with the help of Tolle's ideas, I am working on it.

 WORKING WITH THE EGO

Without judging the ego, itself, as being evil, it is my opinion that the ego can, if we direct it, be a good servant. If we allow it to master us, it can be the source of much suffering and pain. The choice is ours.

THE POWER OF THE EGO--the source personal pain, suffering, including war and terrorism.

For better or for worse, we have the power to choose to do that which is good, or evil. Honest mistakes are always forgiveable.  But consciously choosing to do that which is evil is sin. To deal with sin requires conscious repentance--changing of the mind--and on-going attention.

Rev. King,

I like the way you word things about this matter of science, philosophy and theology, and you have had some powerful support from contributers that I have great respect for. Even the contrary comments to such expressions of "the infinite" have something for us to learn about.

How many people are conscious that the Roman idealism had no perception of infinite or nothing? Zilch is a concept out of the wilderness of Aram ... home of the essential hot winds that drive the whole process? Water is needed to grow a roues ... a rule of mind!

In the story-telling legend (a code?) there are some odd connections to the fluidity of languages that some feel are a fixed image. It is little wonder that water takes on an old symbol for the medium of the mind ... no matter how crappy (chitty chitty bang bang) it may be. From this variability comes the concern over ID and Ego. In general use the ego seems to be used as a sense of desire ... whereas in older terms, ID is defined as the primal desire ... the motivation "to be". I get a grand sense of humour out of the shadow persona of Tobias ... the bias of existentialism as idealism. The metaphysical thought does not exist ... OK ... I can accept that ID thrives in another dimension separate from the physical being. Shadow of Isaiah 60 in this past Sunday's sermon?

Are we confused about Ego, awareness, light ... ontology by some authorities that state rigid laws without knowing that even basalt flows under conditions of great heat and pressure. This is a rheid in terms of earth science ... geology. It is s funny metaphore for a cane, reid, or bullrush along the nihlistic rush of mankind's thought patterns. In the expression of Jack Nicholson ... Something Has To Give! Is that a hint for a needed change in thinking or caring or would some sophistry do as egalitarian justice in place of a democracy that seems to be a complete lie?

I have powerful discussions with my counterparts around the continent from different religious variants on the nature of the darkness, or Nirvana. Of course the nature of light (Isaiah, Joshua, Jesu) and all such metaphors is endlessly counterpoint. One says that the darkness is lack of thought, another says that it is the lack of desire. Did creation form a variable garden? Such thoughts twist some forms of mind (sole) completely out of shape .. like a hot pneumonic? Could that be converted to a mnemonic ... a basis for an aware thought?

When one gets to a certain knowledge of the creature within and harmony with that sole of desire ... does fear dissapate and the hard (difficult) mind float with a certain humour about the oddness of physical creation ... an art form?

It seems there needs to be a sense of balance between the ID and the Ego forming something of a higher tier ... but humans do detest change. How will we ever float that one?

From a friend in an amourphus state of laughter about learning with great caution about damaging the significant other. Now if the shadow of mankind could only become aware of what the other happens Toby!

I wonder by chance did anyone see the NGS a few nights ago on stress and it long term effect on the cumulative mind of humanity and all of the environment. It was an excellent article that went hand in hand with the CBC presentation of the Plastic Mind and the concepts contained in Why God Won't Go Away and The Spiritual Brain (Beauregrad & O'Leary). But if a person cannot accept the dual nature of light, electricity and other weird forms of energy (like mass, Maas) how could they accept the self awareness of a creature like a collective sole (singular mind)? Tis a funny thing Finnegan ... No! The passing does leave a confusing wake ... like that famous ship of Ahab ... chasing a monster!

Then if religion restricts a person from looking over the edge (shiyr in Hebrew has interesting connotations of a far reaching soul) ... how could one form a vision of what could be ... in the non-existential imagination? Would that limit something?

I hope that floats a paris (pair) of thought and cares as aphorism that will flow in peace,

Randy

Yes, Randy, the Romans knew neither the philosophical nor the mathematical nor the spiritual concept of Zero, and this ignorance continued on into the Roman state religion, a.k.a. Christianity. Now, that the veil of ignorance is beginning to lift, we see that God is the Cosmic Zero: nothing—and everything.

Where is the summer, the unimaginable

Zero summer?

-T.S. Eliot

As you are well aware, Arminius, when thinking in terms of philosophy, science and art, I like using the symbol, 'GØD' .

The use of the null--that is, the Ø, the set [ . ] without numbers, 1/0--indicates that all that is imaginable is possible. As Jesus said, "With God all things are possible."

Yes, RevKing, I'm well aware of that—infinite possibilities!

Arminius, talking about "infinite possibilities" let us look at:

THE MAJOR THEOLOGIES--there are numersous theologies. Here we will mention a few.

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Perhaps, in the beginning, all our ancestors were polytheists.

POLYTHEISM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polytheism

HENOTHEISM--there are many gods, but ours is number one. Moses was a henotheist.

DEISM. How deists see themselves--which they have every right to do:

http://www.deism.com/deism_defined.htm

Apparently, deists love and worship nature. They admire the power we human beings have as reasoning beings. Should we fault them for this? I do not think so, as long as they are open to questions and willing to dialogue.

How others see deists:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Deism

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HOW CATHOLICISM SEES DEISM

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Deism

Latin Deus

God

The term used to denote certain doctrines apparent in a tendency of thought and criticism that manifested itself principally in England towards the latter end of the seventeenth century.

The doctrines and tendency of deism were, however, by no means entirely confined to England, nor to the seventy years or so during which most of the deistical productions were given to the world; for a similar spirit of criticism aimed at the nature and content of traditional religious beliefs, and the substitution for them of a rationalistic naturalism has frequently appeared in the course of religious thought.

Thus there have been French and German deists as well as English; while Pagan, Jewish, or Moslem deists might be found as well as Christian.

Because of the individualistic standpoint of independent criticism which they adopt, it is difficult, if not impossible, to class together the representative writers who contributed to the literature of English deism as forming any one definite school, or to group together the positive teachings contained in their writings as any one systematic expression of a concordant philosophy.

The deists were what nowadays would be called freethinkers, a name, indeed, by which they were not infrequently known; and they can only be classed together wholly in the main attitude that they adopted, viz. in agreeing to cast off the trammels of authoritative religious teaching in favour of a free and purely rationalistic

speculation....

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/04679b.htm

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monotheism

Generally defined.

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UNITHEISM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unitheism

I think of myself as a unitheist.

PANENTHEISM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panentheism

similar to the above. Also, take a look at:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panentheism_(Ismailism)

====================

OPEN THEISM--this is interesting.

http://www.gotquestions.org/open-theism.html

THE SACRED AND THE SECULAR--building bridges between them.

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For some time now I have been thinking about the following  question: Isn't it about time we built a bridge over the troubled waters between the sacred and the secular? Let's accept the fact that both have much in common and are valid ways seeing and living within reality. 

Does anyone know: Is there already a thread in WonderCafe on this special theme? If not, perhaps I should start one.

Gophur IT, Revrend King!

OK! I will.

THE SACRED AND THE SECULAR--building bridges between them.

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BUILDING BRIDGES IN OUR POLITICAL ECONOMY--JESUS STARTED THE WHOLE PROCESS IN THE SHORT SPAN OF LIFE HE LIVED ABOUT 2000 YEARS AGO.

I write about it here:

http://www.wondercafe.ca/blogs/revlindsayking/god-and-economics-practice...

By the way, my thread on   http://www.scienceagogo.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Main=1617&Number=44111#Post44111

Philosophy of religion--all religions, including ...

now has over 4,800,000 hits.

Could a hard man build bridges between one side and the other?

To a religious opersonthat would suggest change, ot evolution. We couldn't have that ins church or other form institution ... could we?

Is a bridge like a ford, or other "car" that in Celtic is a biere ... a carrier?

There could be eKos ... sort of a reflection in tongues ...

Gael KISS or just a French BUSS .. well whetted ...

For other threads where I write, search RevLGKing & RevLindsay G. King.

One of my threads at www.scienceagogo.com now has over 5,180,000 hits

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In sub-thread of the main one, I just responded to the question by a reader:

Where and Who is God?

Here is how I responded, recently. Take a look:
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-...--NOT-over.html

Yes, indeed. In the light of the above, where and who is "God"?

In the same light--and with respect to all forms of belief such as scepticism, theism, deism and the like--the process philosophy and theology of panentheistic thinkers like Alfred North Whitehead & Charles Hartshorne (see the link, below), and others, make sense to me.
It is no wonder Richard Dawkins, with his espousal of atheism, in his book, The GOD Delusion, struck a chord with many people.
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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Hartshorne

Today, the count is over 5,180,000. Join in, tell others and invite them to join you in raise the issues that need to be addresses.

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In this thread and others, don't be shy so join in. No matter what others think, let us offer our ideas--BIG and small--that we feel could help solve problems, especially our economic ones.

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THE AMERICAN ELECTION. DID YOU FOLLOW THE NEWS?

Did you read about the money-problems our American cousins are facing?

NATIONAL DEBT NOW OVER $ 16 Trillion, WOW!

1. What is Liberation Atheology?     "  For details, go to:

http://atheism.about.com/od/doesgodexist/u/AtheologyReligionCriticism.htm?nl=1