Hi Everybody! It is my pleasure to start us off on Chapter 8, which is about church leadership throughout a cultural shift in a congregation. Before we get into the content of Chapter 8, I would like to summarize the process for change outlined in the first seven chapters of the book. 

*whoosh*  Birthstone is late for the party!! I've been working on a stack of books and I'm FINALLY half way through With or Without God!! 

first - I'd like to say HURRAY - someone is writing in non-scholarly language.  I'm glad Gretta has written something that is accessible!  I'm ok with the scholarship, but how many good scholarly books do we need, saying the same thing to the same people - preaching to the choir! 

Have you ever walked into a church and been aware of a certain “vibe”? Maybe you couldn’t put your finger on it, but you sensed what the place was all about. The various activities and groups meeting there actually establish an “energy field”, we learn in Chapter Seven.   This field will be palpable to those who are sensitive to these things. 

Here is a review I have written for my church newsletter about Gretta Vosper's book. I have endeavoured to describe Gretta's viewpoint with clarity and respect, and to accurately reflect the...Here is a review I have written for my church newsletter about Gretta Vosper's book. I have endeavoured to describe Gretta's viewpoint with clarity and respect, and to accurately reflect the discussion which took place here on wondercafe. I posted an earlier draft about a month ago, and this is the final version:
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CHAPTER FOUR The Body of Christ: Vision and Mission

I shall excerpt what I thought were the most important parts of CAPTER FOUR, and comment as I go. You may either answer to those, or post what you think is most important.

page 63

CHAPTER THREE
The Heart and Mind of Christ: Discerning Your Non-Negotiables

As I did previously, I will excerpt what I think are the most profound quotes of CHAPTER THREE. You may comment on those, and/or anything else you find important in Bruce's book, up to and including CHAPTER THREE.

page 49

"The emerging Church" by Bruce Sanguin

The subtitle of the book is, "A Model for Change and a Map for Renewal" This is exactly what the book is: a model and a map for congregations wishing to emerge, with detailed instructions and examples, which are taken mainly from Bruce's North Vancouver congregation. Other congregations need, of course, not follow Bruce's model to the T. Each congregation has to translate Bruce's advice and obervations into their own context and emerge on their own terms. The book, however, is an excellent guide.

In With or Without God, Gretta Vosper outlines two sets of problems:

1. The bible is not TAWOGFAT (or, the problems with orthodoxy)

Witty and provocative, With or Without God argues convincingly that the bible is not The Authoritative Word of God For All Time. It encourages us to explore the context in which the bible was written, the motivation of its authors, and its intended audience.