Waterfall , can I lie?

I put in twenty dollars a week at my current church but I am on par with the church I grew up in at $100 / month.

Your choice. ;)

That's what I put in. I was wondering if it was enough? I know it's based on other things but still.....

I do $X a week.

There is no required amount but as a steward I do find that people get stuck on $20. Our treasurer used to lament that there wasn't a $30 bill as he was sure that would increase donations.

We hope each family will give around $1200/year but recognize not all can. I think our average is about $750 annually

I need to say this-It's an OFFERING plate-

and then for amount I'm on PAR-automatic debit from my account

I'm above 1,200 a year

but also embarassed- as I think it should be more-when a retired minister spoke to us about Stewardship he suggested we each figure out what % of our income our offerings are.

I'm at less than 2.5% of my salary.

My wife and I give 10% of our combined income to our church. If we visit a different church we give them $20.

when people calculate a % of income - do you base it on gross income or after deductions?  curious, because that differential can certainly be significant.

We base it on after deductions.

I was basing mine on gross.

Another question:

What motivates you to give to your church?

Hi Waterfall,

While money is important it is not all important.

Yes most service providers prefer cash to time spent in the kitchen or in a Sunday School Classroom.  Churches generall do not value the services rendered on par with monies donated.

When it comes to the MInister's discretionary fund yes.  Most other expenditures are budget items and the congregation has entrusted management of that to others.

In terms of money not a single penny.

Provided, of course, they were willing to roll up their sleeves and apply their own elbow grease.

Grace and peace to you.

John

The monies that come into my church are important to us - because our philosophy is that it should be our church members - and regular adherents - who pay for the church upkeep and mission. Unlike some other churches - you won't find us taking money from the public for such things as strawberry teas - church suppers - white elephant bazaars - and Christmas tree sales.

Jae, your church probably doesn't pay property taxes. That means you're getting government assistance of at least what any other group would be paying for that building for non-religious gatherings.

Maybe, only the rich are Baptist???

I like a big income tax return.

I also think it's important to pay the minister.

When I visit other churches I give twenty as well making sure I pay by cheque or leave my address for a tax receipt.  

At our church folks put vastly different amounts in the Sunday collection - from coins to "big" notes.

I put in $15 - but support in other ways regularly.

This week I bought around $50 worth of antiseptic creams and gave to two nurses from our congregation that are going to some small Pacific islands to help out.

Previously our minister asked us to help out with buying underwear to give to the homeless -'what we do for others, we do for Jesus.'

I bought a few packets, and said to her, "I hope Jesus likes black underpants," and was rewarded with a grin.........

My offerings are given through PAR.  I give financially above and beyond what I give through PAR through special functions, special fundraising events, special offerings at special services, and through buying a variety of office and other items for the church without submitting receipts for reimbursement.

I cannot even guess at what others should give.

Yes, through adopting our yearly budget.  And also, as a member of our Leadership Board I also vote on unbudgeted and overbudgeted spending.

Based on an approximate $150,000 budget and based on 100 givers, ever giver in my church family would have to give $1500/year.  I know there are some who give more, and I know there are some who give less.

If we had a revenue of $150,000 per year we could very effectiving ministry serving others outside of our church because we could give more through outreach.

I give by a combination of PAR, weekly givings, and many pounds of butter and degrees of oven heat. The PAR is what I consider my core commitment to the church - what they can count on in a year, the rest varies according to my budget, and the demands made on my oven and my butter stash. 

And to answer part B, generally I have a say as a voting member of the congregation accepting annual budget projections at the Annual Meeting. I currently have both more and less of a say around un-budgeted items as Chair of the Church Board in that I i) set agenda items, but ii) don't have a vote.

Thinking about outreach - it could be done for free - if people were would donate their goods and services. More realistically - there are costs to outreach. We pay printing costs - and purchase large food quantities on what we're doing so far.

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I do have some say in how the monies that come into our church get spent - as I am a Deacon.

I used to give $140/month and extra when I had an extra pay. Had to cut back to $80, because prices for groceries have gone up and I lost the tax benefits when my son turned 18.
My priorities are to go to see my mom at home on a yearly basis, (I used to go every 4 years),she is turning 80 and of not so good health, to give my siblings a break -and paying off my house before I retire, which might not be possible.
I also have a friend who is on "brain tumour alert"- and I would like to take her to Ottawa for a long weekend and my son would like Togo to the GO project in Saskatoon this year- not sure how to get all this money together.

That brings up a good point mrs. anteater. Sometimes other things come up that take priority and its necessary to use our own discretion as to where the money goes.

I find giving directly to a cause and knowing where its going to help and how, makes me feel something is actually being accomplished towards helping "the church".

Sometimes specific requests spur us on to give too.

RevJohn highlights an important item for me.  

My sense is our metrics are broken.  The corporate world has slipped in , which is good in some ways, ie, measurement is important, it helps us to see where we are spending our resources, and how much we have available

The problem is that our measurements are based on $$$ almost fully, ie, our narrative budgets.

Yet, our value, or what we are, is not about money.

It is about service in the world, or usage of the building or....whatever the measurements are that we are after.

What would it look like if you could measure the volunteer hours , how would you categorize service hours verus upkeep of the church operations?   Would you include hours that people spend volunteering elsewhere?  Is your church nurturing those who vollunteer in the world.  Do we honor what they do?

What would it look like if you measured time spent in prayer?  Is it increasing or decreasing in your congregation? Does it matter?  Is tiem spent in prayer important ?  Could individuals record the time spent in prayer that week (at home or at work or in sanctuary) and submit it.  Would the act of recording shift the hours?  

So, we spend our time on money, we record $$ in, and $$ out, we freak out about shifts in $$.   We neglect our biggest asset, which is the people who come and care about the community, and often offer their hours in the community

Jae, I have been advised that the Untied Church of Canada members are not known for being big givers, and that other denominations, possibly Baptist, are more intentional about true tithing. 

I applaud your church in ensuring that it doesn't use public funds for operational costs.   

I feel that fundraisers, such as teas, bazaars, etc should be used for mission type work.

I give on PAR also; a substantial amount.  When my children were small, our expenses high, and income less, I gave less cash and contributed very intentionally my volunteer time.  I still volunteer lots, but have probably doubled my cash givings.  When I retire ... that may change again. . 

I also submit some "in kind" receipts for tax acknowledgement - ie supplies for the Prayer Shawl Ministry

Our church publishes a brief monthly (or maybe 6 week) update on finances - ie money taken in & expenses for the period, compared to what was budgeted.  It seems to help people see if we're keeping track or falling behind - although to be honest, givings fluctuate a lot with the time of the church year.   

We also have special campaigns - we've just replaced the hundred year old grand piano in our sanctuary - special fundraising drive for that.  Christmas & Easter are also specials asks. 

Pinga - interesting idea to log in prayer time & volunteer hours.  It would be an interesting project - do it for one month each year & track data.  

Hi Pinga,

Fundraisers should never be used as budget supplements nor should they be the go to method if givings are falling short.  That is short-sighted and poor management of resources as far as I am concerned.

Apart from increases to heat and hydro expenses the congregation will know what it costs to fund the building and the personnel that use it.  The congregation should be able to meet that expense through their regular givings whether or not they choose to tithe.

Waterford is trying to move away from fundraisers as budget supplement.  It isn't an easy mind-shift to accomplish.

One of our successes was the Free Friday Concert which is held on the last Friday night of the month.  In fact our problem there is that people want to give at those events and we were finding money tucked into places afterwards.  We have grudgingly accepted that folk feel compelled to give and we have decided that money will be used to supplement the refreshments we serve afterwards which had previously been out of pocket expenses of volunteers.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Yes, I think we are in agreement.

Yes. Our auditor requires us to acknowledge in our financial reports in kind donations too

Ie. the annual flea market gets thousands of people through. If it is a wet day the wear and tear on carpets is huge. The UCW pays to have it cleaned after.

That cost though gets reported as a property cost offset by a UCW donation to cover.

Otherwise it appears that there is never a cost to clean the carpet

Lots of examples of that sort of thing.

A congregation member for instance thinks the church needs something. ( gowns cleaned, new freezer, windows cleaned, garden work.....) Pays for it as a donation in kind. But we still record it as an expense and donation. It is a change for us the past five years or so And has shown our budget to be higher than we all thought

And yes, fundraiser a are for outreach. Unless we do a specific call, for instance for roof repair

Our most recent building project was installing a lift. We completed this project without holding any fundraising events. Our people were committed to having a lift - and gave generously as a result. We've also never held any fund raising events for missions. We simply ask our people to give - and the money comes flowing in.

But wouldn't some fundraising also be nice for meeting people and inviting them to church? Or just provide some fun too?

there can certainly be a positive social aspect to fundraising. I've witnessed this firsthand at my mother's UCCanada in northern NB.

still - at my church we are coming together to present various dinners and such. The difference is that we don't charge people to participate. The tab is picked up by the church.

I suppose there's nothing outright wrong with fundraising - especially if the monies gathered further God's kingdom. Churches should be honest about the fundraising - though - how much people will have to pay and to where the money will go.

I don't see the problem wth includng fundraising in annual budgets.  Our church uses a unified budget - so all money coming in is included.  With our total receipts in the $500,000 range - $40,000 or so will come from fundraising.

Each week I put a percentage of the amount that I pledge during our annual stewardship campaign!  I hope to be able to tithe...someday.  Right now, it is important to get my youngest through university - debt free.

I doubt that most people in a congregation know how much it costs to heat and maintain the church building.  I like to see a print out offered rgularly showing last years total income and expense in the major categories, this years budget and the totals to date.  When this isdone everyone is keptaware that the itiems don't just appear by magic!

I don't  contribute to a church but my donations to other worthwhille causes are fairly high, I think.  I aim at 10% of my actual income, but give less cash if 'in-kind' costs go up too high.  At  one point I was paying all the sports expenses for a one parent familywith four kids, at another time I was supplementing a family's diet with home cooked meals while one parent was seriously ill.  One of the reasons I choose to live frugally is so I can afford to give more.

Kay, I am in awe of you.What is a Christian(from another thread) You are, my friend.

You make me giggle CH. At this stage of my life I have no interest in being described as a Christian. I have tried two denominations (on and off, over many years) and they clearly indicated that I was, in some way, not qute acceptable to them.   I have struggled to try to understand what Christianity is really about - and haven't figured it out.  Best for me to go my own way without them to keep me company.

Maybe I will try to catch up on the thread you mentioned so I know what you mean!

After prayerful consideration I try to put $10 a week in the offering plate.  I also offer my time and talents.  Since our annual income is low, my husband and I don't pay income taxes.  In fact the government gives us a supplement to our Old Age Pension.  To give more would compromise our standard of living.

Every member of the congregation has an opportunity to study the financial reports before our Annual Meeting, and an opportunity to speak about and then vote on the budget at that meeting.  The costs of operating our building are high - heating, etc.  We pay our staff (ministers, sexton, secretary), and our other operating expenses.  We pay our dues to Presbytery and our commitment to M&S.  And we are involved in outreach - we have a benevolent fund for those who come to us for food or assistance.  We give out $500 or more weekly in food vouchers, as well as providing breakfast and pantry goods to those who come to our door.  

I don't feel guilty that we don't pay property taxes.  I think that the services we provide to the community seven days a week (space for AA meetings, legal aid, Big Brothers & Big Sisters, Gamblers Annon., etc.  as well as social groups for Seniors, Book Club) more than make up for what the city loses in taxes on our prime real estate corner.  We have practically no parking lot.  

I wish I could give more.  I do what I can.

Taking up the offering at an outdoor (picnic) service today, I noticed several $20 bills, a $5, plus envelopes and a PAR card.

I also noticed that several, myself included, didn't put anything on the plate.  I had locked my wallet in my car.  Others might have done the same, or not bothered with their PAR card, or give by monthly donation - and I know that we have some people attending out services who struggle to survive and can't afford to give at all.

I go (when I go) to an urban church and there are several low income people. People put change in the plate and bills. Maybe some put whatever they've got in their wallet if they remember (lots of people don't carry cash or change.) We have an afternoon music focused service that gets a lot of guests that don't normally go to church. My guess is that $5-10 would be about what guests put in- that's what I'd do I don't know what arrangements for giving others have made and it's none of my business and it's none of their business what I'm putting in. Everyone has their own circumstances and I can't be the judge of that. I've put anywhere from a toonie to $20 in. I've also instead brought food or other donations asked for if I can't do both. I give to the church anonymously and don't ask for a tax receipt (which I have sometimes wondered if the bean counters have wondered if I gave anything- everytime I'm at a service I give something). I donate what I can as I'm able- my circumstances shift- including volunteering as I'm able.