This is cute.

Sorry, I could not sell you on going to my church at the present time.

I do hope that you get some positive answers because I think it is a worthwhile question and I would be interested to hear what others have to say.

When I came to Christian faith in my mid-20's, I had no particular denominational background and so could have gone anywhere, I suppose, and did "try out" or investigate a few. In the end I joined the United Church because of the relative freedom it gave me to think for myself (both alone and in conversation with others) and to come to many of my own conclusions about God and Jesus. I don't think I could ever feel comfortable in a church that told me what I had to believe, rather than encouraging me to explore and develop my own beliefs. That, in truth, is also one of the great challenges of the United Church. Because individuals are free (if not always encouraged unfortunately) to come to their own conclusions, the United Church can often seem to be all over the map. I suppose in some ways we are, but what I've found over the years is that given the freedom that I cherish for both myself and others, it's surprising that - when we all seek to be guided by the Holy Spirit - we generally end up agreeing on more than we disagree, and under such guidance our disagreements can be just that - honest disagreements. That's an ideal admittedly. It doesn't always work that way. But it often does; probably more often than not in my observation. For me (being clergy, I look at it in terms of where I should be exercising my role as the settled minister) it isn't so much finding a community with which I'm in agreement on all things (and even necessarily on all things of importance), it's more finding a community which is open to differences, to challenging and being challenged, and to doing so in a respectful manner. I can live with disagreements; I can even live with being uncomfortable because of the disagreements; I can't abide being told that disagreement isn't allowed and conformity is required. So for all the frustration I sometimes feel over the United Church's very "open" approach to theology, that which frustrates me is also one of the things that I perceive as the church's greatest strength, and may well be the thing that binds me to the United Church.

Sure the United Church sometimes gets consumed in its own internal issues; in its own bureaucracy and infighting and politics. Sure the various courts conflict and nobody likes Presbytery unless they're actually a Presbyter. I get all that. But there's no organization that doesn't fall into some internal squabbling and tension - and these things in and of themselves are the signs of the existence of a community. 

Don't know if this is the sort of reflection you're looking for, Mendalla, and I'm not even sure that I'm really writing in response to you. This is more of a soul-searching exercise. Your question challenged me to reflect more deeply on why I'm in this United Church when I could be elsewhere.

Blessings.

Very well written Steven!

I am still pondering my own response.

I like what Steven wrote....

In addition to that, I like that I can fully participate in my church. I have been able to become involved in leadership at the congregational level, and now at Presbytery. It can be intimidating at times, but the fact that I as a female and a lay person can become involved in leadership is wonderful. No one is telling me I have to stay in the Sunday School if I want to become more involved. I like that when I go to Presbytery, it is hard to tell who is clergy and who isn't. There is no hierarchy really, at least in our Presbytery.

I like that there is no specific way we have to believe. I do not need to check my brain at the door. I can ask questions, even dumb ones.

I'd like to see how other people answer. This is a great topic.

I would like to say that no one can sell the UCC. In my experience people usually join a congregation based on the local community and it's ability to,connect you to the community, and creation, and the creator as you understand it ina way that will enrich you and the community, and creation and God as you may understand her.

Now i would sell my church, 1 st United in Ottawa, to Mendalla by saying the people and the minister would understand where you are comming from. And that many membrs if they do not have a similar story as you do, know many who do. In the sense, at my church you will know that " You are not alone"
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People will not try to make you something different than you ae, nor will they try to make you believ what they do. howevr they will share what they believe and why they do so. They are Christians, (with a diverse set of theologies) however most are also reasonable ( use reason and science, and are involved in the world) to understand creation. There is also a large Sunday school, and perhaps the largest demographic are women from 35 to 60 who may be mothers, single, widowers, and in relationships with men or with women. The minister has no need to hide that he is a gay man, or a parent, and as well, many membrs do not hide there disabilities/ abilities, sexuality, and views on theology and the world.
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The language that is use is usually inclusive, Bible, hyms, and sermons try to embrace both male and female, and others. There is lots of opportunity for involvement in social justice, and church committes of various types. At least one a mpnth services re lead by lay members, Including presenting the sermon. Whorship is different each week, and is planned by the membrs and the minister. ( except once a month where the minister ismnot involved)
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Ultimately the only way to discover what my church is like is too attend services and other events.
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My answer is similar to what others have written.

For me it's about the acceptance and equality. I grew up in the United Church and I choose to remain because I can't imagine going to a church where myself and my friends could not be fully engaged in all areas of congregational life. In my congregation, when I look around the pews, I see women and men, boys and girls, members of the GLBTQ community, people with different cultural backgrounds, people with physical and mental disabilities - and all are able to take on any roles within the community that they are physically and emotionally able to. As Steven said, I like that the United Church, as a denomination, encourages us to think for ourselves. I have spent most of my life attending two congregations in the United Church. In my childhood and young adulthood, I attended a fairly conservative United Church and now I am a member of a very liberal congregation. The ministers of both congregations have challenged me to learn, question, and think for myself - and have also encouraged me to take on leadership roles appropriate to my abilities. 

In my church I have people say that they have "never felt welcome in a church before." I'm glad they feel welcome in mine.

Respectfully, Alex, Mendalla asked us to "sell him" on the denomination. Selling him on your congregation is pointless, since he doesn't live in Ottawa.

The United Church of Canada has 4 amazing Education and Retreat Centres. Naramata, Calling Lake, Five Oaks, Tatmagoughe scattered actoss the country. Thet are truly holy places.

So, unless Mendalla wants to be in paid and accountable ministry, it is thus my view, that it is pointless for me and others not in accountable ministry, or belonging to a higher court to sell the United Church as a denomination. Thus i can only sell to Mendalla my local church and so that is why i did so. I know he lives elsewhere, but i am not familar with any congregations in London.

Sigh. No, you join the holy catholic church. You become a Christian. Your faith is lived out in a local congregation. The Roman Catholic Church says the same thing.

I think your theological point is a valid one, DKS - although I don't believe the phrase "holy catholic church" is ever found in The Manual (I could be wrong on that; I'd have to check it out more thoroughly, which I just don;t feel like doing right now, but I can't remember the phrase), which does speak of membership in the United Church. Essentially we're getting down to "visible" vs "invisible" church - a valid discussion, probably better for another thread. I kind of regret that I opened this can of worms now, since it isn't what Mendalla wanted, and to the point that the discussion is derailed, I apologize, Mendalla.

The point is that he's looking for reasons to want to associate with the United Church. He never uses the word "membership" so let's put the discussion on that point to rest. What is it about the denomination that attracts? (Bureaucratic and theological hair-splitting probably isn't it!) Yes, membership is governed through the local congregation; yes, the United Church is a part of the "holy catholic church." But the minutiae of membership "rules" isn't the point. What about the United Church is attractive - and there are people who will be attracted to the denomination first and foremost, so that as they "check out" local congregations they may well check this or that denomination out first.

I offered my thoughts above, as have others. Let's get back to that discussion. 

It's on the certificate of baptism published by the UCRD, for one. And we have mutual baptismal agreement with the Presbyterians, Lutherans, Roman Catholics and Anglicans. It's a "big tent".

I took this one with me, because I could not let it sit.

I think one can "sell" the denomination citing that it is congregational.

So, what is it for me?

I was seeking a church that would not be so concerned that Jesus was God that they lost the teachings, the amazing insight..... I did not want to focus on "the nature of God" and attempt to solve mystery with theological and metaphysical guesses. It requires nothing OF me.

I wanted my faith to ask something, demand something, OF me. Not focus on what Jesus did thousands of years ago FOR me. I wanted it to be more than something I say, sing, pray... I wanted it to be something I LIVED. I wanted it to be about here and now, not some reward or punishment to come. I wanted psychological, emotional, rational, personal, TRANSFORMATIONAL.

I did not want someplace that decided they could judge who goes where, why, when and how. I did not want people thinking they WERE God. I wanted people experiencing God. Being the only glimpse of Jesus another might have.

So, there were places I would not fit outside the UCCan. Were there other places I may have fit other than the UCCan based on that? Yes, undoubtedly.

But there was more.

I did not want the social implications of Jesus’ teaching to be ignored because they were uncomfortable or cost us some comfort, some ease, some status quo. I felt/feel  transformation extends to the political and economic levels.

So, things like the environment, resources, aboriginal rights, poverty... all those social justice issues mattered.

The list gets smaller.

I am a child of God. I also happen to be LGBTQ. I need to hear I am loved THE WAY I AM. I need to hear ALL people deserve love and to be loved and to have loving relationships. I need to hear that my committed, loving relationship can and should include sex if we want it to. I need to hear that I can make a covenant with her and God and have it valued, respected, held up....

The list well, now, it is very small.

People say, "you are LGBTQ, you could have chosen the MCC.  It would mean all the congregations are affirming." I would say, "I can seek out UCCans that are a good fit because I have limits on my congregationalism. Each congregation in the MCC is a self-governing, legally autonomous body. I like the UCCan governance better.:

When I listened for people of faith speaking on resource extraction, residential schools, climate change, missing aboriginal women, poverty, human trafficking... it was the UCCan I heard loudest and clearest. When critics say social justice should not be our focus, that Jesus should be, I want to share that Jesus' IS. His teachings were of right relationship (Matthew 23:36-40) and on transforming THIS world and not completely separating spiritual and worldly... not waiting for the kingdom to come to us one day or greet us at death, but to be tranformed while living and create it "on earth as it is in heaven" for ourselves and our neighbours, friends and enemies.

This denomination and my local UCCan congregations have welcomed me, affirmed me... strangers have taken me in with radical hospitality and Christian love and well.... when that happens, the lyrics of It Only Takes a Spark, they ring 100% true.

The United Church of Canada has an open communion table. All are welcome.

Women and men can be ordained and they can be gay or straight.

Lay leadership is valued.

Our moderator can be lay or ordered minister. (One of my Catholic friends was amazed that our moderator was so young compared to the POPE! and he was envious!)

First of all, I have a little disclaimer:  I am an employee of The United Church of Canada - General Council Office Staff.  I was a WonderCafer first.  The following opinion is my own, personally, but it has been shaped with the experiences I've had in my work.

Selling The United Church of Canada (from a denominational perspective)

I grew up in one specific UCC congregation.  As one of my coworkers (who didn't) says, I'm the 'real deal'.  To me, what it meant was a family and a faith community who always saw the best in me.  Who tolerated my rebellious sunday school behaviour, like making the teacher nervous asking about why God wanted to kill Moses, etc.  I had a strange-working, knowledge-seeking mind, and even though I pushed my limits with those I knew there growing up, they never failed to make me feel welcome to be there.  I went off to University, came back, and got even more involved.  Before I knew it, I was looking for a job and found one, on the reference of my minister, at the UCC General Council Office. 

It was the best thing that ever happened to me... with the possible exception of meeting my husband.  I have gone from a warm, fuzzy nostalgic love of the UCC in specific example, to a mature, understanding passion for the denomination at large.  When I was little and was asked about who The United Church of Canada was, I found it the easiest (mostly because I didn't remember all the details so well) to describe it as 'the church that decided to get together instead of split up'.  I think I still use that concept, although I do know the details now. 

From my nearly two years working in the centre of Global and Ecumenical partnerships and mission personnel, I have learned that this church is exceptional at being authentic.  We do 'different' and 'weird' well.  We take our time to think large issues over and make sure everyone has a voice, and while we are often slow to react to change, it is because we want to do it respectfully and with everyone's gifts and voices in mind.  There is a lot of talk in my unit about social justice being at the core of our work.  In the words of Micah that are on the GC41 page, it is about trying "To act justly and to love mercy, and to walk humbly with your God"; I have heard them repeated often here. 

We are a moderate church.  I remember a WonderCafe member (can't remember who!) telling an analogy that the UCC is the antithesis of McDonalds - you cannot walk into a UCC anywhere in Canada and order the same Big Mac.  We are all so different, so locally-relevant.  Sometimes it makes us hard to relate to each other, and to communicate who we are as a whole in a way that makes sense.  But I believe our faith in each other, and in justice and mercy, ties us all together into something more than just an institution or church in name.

Hunh.  I guess I am the 'real deal'.  BTW, I'm happy to answer any questions about my work, if I can.  I have voluntarily chosen the fun yet precarious path of having my own opinion on here, but trying to share the work of my unit and office in a genuine and sensitive way.  Ah, grey areas.  The UCC hast taught me well.

I like so much of what I've read on this thread.  Thank you, Mendalla for raising the question.  Some specific things struck a chord with me... things that have been true in my personal faith, but haven't been so well articulated in my head.

I grew up in the United Church - my parents chose it for us based on geography and not necessarily much else.  It has become my community, my family, and my home. 

I feel welcome, included, comfortable, useful, loved, faith-filled, and valued - on Sundays, at other church meetings/events, and throughout my day-to-day life.

I must have been writing at the same time as you, Faerenach.  I'm glad to see you here and to read the telling of your experience.  Thanks.

This is going to seem strange but for the pre teen years I went to a Baptist Church and the United church took away  the funny feeling and fear ( of what, I have no idea) in the pit of my stomach before I realized the Baptist weren't for me.

It felt like coming home. It felt like I was important and it  was where God and I came to a meeting of minds.

Can we market this feeling. I hope so.

I am also "the real deal" I have been to lots of other achurches over the years and I always come back to the UCC. this church in all it's glory and foot shooting has nurtured me and loved me and my family unconditionally. Every one I have been in has encouraged me to think for myself and challenged the way I live. I appreciate this very much because I am a questioner and the UCC encourages that.

Interesting answers all round (well, haven't watched Saul's video yet). Steven, Alex, SG, Faernach in particular had lots to chew over but the shorter answers, though often citing back to them, had some interesting tidbits as well.

The whole openness thing is interesting because the congregation I grew up in didn't have that feeling. They weren't hardcore fundamentalists or anything (on the conservative side of mainstream, I'd say), but didn't seem to want to deal with exploring questions about faith either. "Living the questions" wasn't their style. Suggesting that something like the Virgin Birth may not have happened as written, for instance, seemed to get backs up. Again, it wasn't as though they were hard literalists, more like they had their cherished stories and didn't want to look at them too closely. But maybe that's just my impression based on not finding what I wanted as a curious, spiritually growing youth with some big questions.

And, an odd note: As a UU I have all the spiritual and theological openness that I can ask for. Perhaps the thing that draws me most to the UCCan is a phrase: "We are not alone." It's a powerful opening to the creed and even if I don't necessarily believe in everything that follows, that line alone (or even along with the next: "we live in God's world") is an assurance that keeps coming back to me as something that the UCCan (and other Christian churches, admittedly) offers that UU'ism does not. In UU'ism, we acknowledge the interdependent web of existence which does mean that "we are not alone", but we don't make that idea of not being alone central the way you have with the New Creed.

Mendalla

I grew up Anglican, felt a call to ministry in Grade 12, and spent almost 20 years working on a number of issues including what I believe.  In the United Church I found the opportunity to have beliefs that don't fit established doctrine, the opportunity to be part of a congregation engaging in social action as well as spiritual development, and a profound openness to strangers.

I would concur with many of the statements above: the United Church of Canada provides arenas (which vary a great deal) in which we can share our search for spiritual connection and meaning in relationships that matter and make a difference.  There are opportunities to respond to personal calls to actions of differenct forms, and support (of variable quality) in those responses.  It is a place where we can interact with the living God without being bound by ancient doctirines.  And it is a place where we can meet the living Jesus in diverse ways.

I am much in agreement with most of the above - especially with SG.

As to the UU, I like it. I have often spoken at UU services and attended discussions - and found the UU far more questioning, searching, etc. than the UC. (Though I can't say I have found the UU's to be notably better Christians.)

I also find the UU too obvious in its effort of avoid reference to a god or to anything that sounds too religious. It gets dreadfully self-concious in that respect.

The best way to "sell" a church is to find an L.Ron Hubbard or some other crackpot with a genius for selling snake oil.

We shouldn't be "selling" a church in any market sense. We should be, through our behaviour, showing the showing the world what Christianity means. It's not fireworks, or giant rallies, or public conversions. And it's only partly ritual and prayer and formal services.  It's a way of fully participating in life.

Kijiji

It's already been tried, Witch. rummage sales. (I miss them, and I always must so long as I cannot be a child again.)

My background is military - my mother was a nominal Anglican and my father was baptized in  the UCCan and an atheist. Throughout my growing years, I had a variety of experiences of church, Sunday schools and junior choirs. Some were better than others but nothing that would have called to me in adulthood.

However, through one thing and another, I did get involved in Christian churches later on but generally all of the more conservative type of theology, often fundamentalist and generally right wing. There was a right and a wrong way to discuss the bible, a right and a wrong way to be a woman/wife/mother, a right and wrong way to look at issues related to sexuality...you get the point. I eventually got to the point where I just couldn't be there any more.

Gradually, through reading Matthew Fox, learning about the importance of inclusive language from dear Anglican friends and finding companionship and support in my quest for knowledge, I found a UCCan church where deep inclusion, beyond language, was the norm. The song " You Are a Part of the Family" always reminds me of that time and those people and still brings tears to my eyes.

Although  my attendance and involvement waxes and wanes, that glimpse into the welcome, love and acceptance that I believe Jesus modelled, keeps me "here".