carolla's picture

carolla

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Ministry in Motion

Hi Folks - just occured to me today that some of you might like to know more about an upcoming conference in my Presbytery ... Ministry in Motion - for both clergy and lay leaders - looks like a great programme!   And I have an inkling RevJohn is signed up already!

 

http://www.haltonpres.org/featured-story/equipping-the-leaders-of-the-future

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revjohn's picture

revjohn

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I have indeed registered and am looking forward to participating.

 

Tabitha's picture

Tabitha

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Looks intersesting but too far away

As a note of clarification Anna Christie is a FORMER United Church minister-she should not be referred to as the Rev.

seeler's picture

seeler

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It was probably discussed before but what is a 'former United Church minister'  and why shouldn't she be referred to as the Rev.?

 

 

carolla's picture

carolla

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On her own website Anna indicates - "For many years Anna was an Ordained Minister in the United Church of Canada. She now divides her time between counselling and writing."  This suggests to me that she has discontinued service to the UCC - that would make her a 'former minister' as Tabitha indicates.

 

With regard to the Rev. title - I don't know, but I'd guess mainly that people would use it to indicate being in service to the church and able to perform the sacraments.   So if one is no long associated, then it would make sense (to me at least!) to not use the title.

Tabitha's picture

Tabitha

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I see it as being different than a retired minister-they  can continue to use Rev.

seeler's picture

seeler

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I know ordained ministers who are involved in counselling, lecturing, or running an art shop.  They apply to Presbytery each year to have their names retained on the rolls.  They may or may not be available for pulpit supply a few Sundays a year, do a funeral for a friend, or apply for a temporary license to marry.  They are not connected with a church or doing regular ministry.  Are they still 'Rev.'?

 

 

Tabitha's picture

Tabitha

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If retained on the rolls yes they can still be the Rev.

In the above case she calls herself a FORMER minister-therefore she should not be billed as Rev.

Anyhow I feel this is off topic

 

It does look like a worthwhile conference with a wide variety of speakers.

Rev. John is going.

Anyone else going?

graeme's picture

graeme

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Well, there are titles one keeps whether using them or not. An academic Dr. of philosophy is still titled Dr., even if he becomes a professional card sharp. A title is not necessarily a job description.

I can see the reasons for revoking a title like Rev. should the person's behaviour become unacceptable. But I see no reason why a person who shifts his job title from minister to, say, social consultant, should also lose the Rev. title.

carolla's picture

carolla

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seeler wrote:

I know ordained ministers who are involved in counselling, lecturing, or running an art shop.  They apply to Presbytery each year to have their names retained on the rolls.  They may or may not be available for pulpit supply a few Sundays a year, do a funeral for a friend, or apply for a temporary license to marry.  They are not connected with a church or doing regular ministry.  Are they still 'Rev.'?

These folks - registered with Presbytery - are in fact associated with a church - they are Voluntary Associate Ministers - although they do not carry any formal responsibility at the church, the church must also agree to sponsor them forward to Presbytery.

 

Others choose Voluntary Discontinued Service, and then would be 'former' ministers.  For some others - those the church dismisses - they also are on the Discontinued Service list, but not voluntarily.

 

But back to the thread - anybody else planning to attend?  You can have this discussion in person with Anna!

revjohn's picture

revjohn

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HI Tabitha,

 

Tabitha wrote:

As a note of clarification Anna Christie is a FORMER United Church minister-she should not be referred to as the Rev.

 

Well, yes and no.

 

Anna is no longer actively serving a congregation.  She may still be retained on the role of Presbytery.  If she is then she is still allowed to be referred to as the reverend Anna Christie.  If Anna has voluntarily placed herself on the Discontinued Service List or, has been placed on that list by action of Presbytery it may not be appropriate to refer to her as the reverend Anna Christie.

 

I'm not knowledgeable as to her status so I cannot comment much further on it.

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

DKS's picture

DKS

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carolla wrote:

seeler wrote:

I know ordained ministers who are involved in counselling, lecturing, or running an art shop.  They apply to Presbytery each year to have their names retained on the rolls.  They may or may not be available for pulpit supply a few Sundays a year, do a funeral for a friend, or apply for a temporary license to marry.  They are not connected with a church or doing regular ministry.  Are they still 'Rev.'?

These folks - registered with Presbytery - are in fact associated with a church - they are Voluntary Associate Ministers - although they do not carry any formal responsibility at the church, the church must also agree to sponsor them forward to Presbytery.

 

Um.. not quite. Depends on the conference. Voluntary Associate Ministers in this conference must have a formal, written agreement outlining their responsibilities with the pastoral charge they are requesting status with before the presbytery approves their status as a VAM.

 

Quote:
Others choose Voluntary Discontinued Service, and then would be 'former' ministers.  For some others - those the church dismisses - they also are on the Discontinued Service list, but not voluntarily.

 

Again, it is a bit more finely parsed than that. Any person who places themselves on the DSL(V) by request,

 

Persons whose names have been so removed shall not be recognized as Ministry Personnel of the United Church, nor shall they perform the functions of its diaconal or ordained ministry.

 

People placed on the DSL(D) by a disciplinary action by the presbytery are a bit different.

 

Persons whose names have been so removed shall not be recognized as Ministry Personnel of the United Church, nor shall they perform the functions of its diaconal or ordained ministry unless specifically stipulated otherwise by the Conference.

 

In other words, all are "former". The use of the honourific "Rev." would be certainly questionable. OTOH, we have a former minister with a D.Min, in my city. He uses the title "Dr.", which is acceptable, as it was an earned doctorate. He presides at funerals, but doesn't present himself as a minister.

 

 

DKS's picture

DKS

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carolla wrote:

But back to the thread - anybody else planning to attend?  You can have this discussion in person with Anna!

 

Having heard several of the speakers elsewhere, I'll be passing. It is also moving into storm season up here.

carolla's picture

carolla

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Yes DKS - the snow will soon be flying.

 

Interesting to read of the conference variability re VAMs.

 

I appreciate the clarifications from the OMs  here. 

DKS's picture

DKS

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carolla wrote:

 

Interesting to read of the conference variability re VAMs.

 

Our conference is a bit tighter because we have the largest number of retired ministers in the United Church.

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