Seriousessness? Lol. Seriousness, I mean. Seriously.

I am assuming it's more or less the same on both sides of the border now but are there any differences and could that impact the posters or owners inadvertently if the owners have ownership over something that was posted on the site while the owner or poster was originally in Canada but then accessed in the US? Or are the laws applicable to the country the site is registered in no matter where it's accessed from? Just wondering. It shouldn't make much of a difference, I wouldn't think, but maybe it could.

Legalities? I'm not sure what you mean. I can do anything at WC2 from Kansas that I can do here, except marry Mendalla.

Sorry chansen-even here you can marry Mendalla, Last time I checked one requirement to be married was that both parties are lawfully single

Americans love lawsuits. Are the copyright laws different for example? I have read that artists can sue people for YouTube videos that are not the original, like music montages or even amateurs trying to sing or play a piece of music on YouTube without the artist's permission. What about lawsuits for saying some famous person or company is a so and so? What about tax laws for donations received if they are picked up while online across the border? Subject to US tax laws? What about somebody posting uncited quotes accidentally and being overlooked by a mod? What if Charles Stanley wanted to sue WC2 because of unsafe? Or because of what anyone might say about Charles Stanley? What if Creflo took offense to something? Or Franklin Graham? How free are we to criticize? Do US, Canadian or both laws apply?

I don't fully understand it and could be way off, but I think it matters where the server is.  That's why many gambling sites run out of aboringinal land.  Where it's actually accessed from doesn't really matter, unless the country has laws for the users.

He meant that he could marry me here but couldn't in Kansas though I'm not 100% sure of the status of same-sex relationships in that state. With the courts involved, the whole situation in the states has become very fluid.

Mendalla

According to this report, http://m.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/mar/6/kansas-renews-debate-on-pro..., you and Chansen may have to wait till next year before you hook up in Kansas. You're better off staying in Canada.

Kimmio, videos aren't a concern for us because we don't host them. If someone has a problem with a video, it's the host they need to go after and that, for us, is generally Youtube. If a video is freely available on Youtube, then there are no legal issues with linking to it or embedding it anywhere else and if there are, it's Youtube they should be targetting (e.g. some video content not licensed for Canada is blocked from Canadian IPs by Youtube).

Donations would only be an issue if they were being received in or originating in the US. Moving money from a Canadian bank to a Canadian bank is a Canadian transaction no matter where the person doing the transaction is located so long as the money itself does not touch a non-Canadian institution en route.

As for the whole suing someone for performing someone else's song on Youtube, that comes under the same provision (it's Youtube's problem, not ours) and suing for that is pretty rare now. There's a whole indie music scene that funds itself through covers of well-known artists' songs (Kina Grannis and Peter Hollens, who I frequently post here, being two of that scene).

Web forums and related communication platforms (USEnet newsgroups, Internet Relay Chat) have been crossing border this way for probably close to 40 years now and legal problems like you describe are rare to non-existent on the ones I've been on (which are true multinational boards in a couple cases).

Mendalla

That's fine. What about Nevada? I've always wanted a Vegas wedding .

Chansen and Mendalla are free to hook up in Kansas - as same-sex sexual activity is legal there - they just can't get married.

But what good is it if I don't get to wear my white dress?

Mendalla

Internet groups have been around for 40 years?! I didn't think the Internet had been around for 40 years. Almost my whole life and the first computer I saw was a Commadore 64- about 1983- the only one in my elementary school. I only knew it was good for playing Space Invaders. :)

"we're not in Kansas anymore."

In Kansas folk looked to things and found reasons why they couldn't or shouldn't succeed. Good thing we got taken up by some metaphorical wind and blown out of Kansas. Now we are free to shape our shared space according to our growing  consensus.

What we imagine is a conversation in which those who participate will discover benefit.

We all have issues tagging on when we post. Not sure about you, but I want my issues noticed and called out. Listening to perspectives other than my own I am enlarged in capacity for refinement and growth.

Hair splitting ends up being a power game, with all the divisive fallout power games present.

Some will be in and some will be out. There will be attrition where there is integrity. We will be left with a core consensus. This will open to the prospect of an enlarging consensus.

As to legality. Sometimes it requires resistance, opening to consequence which may bring personal and shared risk. Ethics as a high priority and guide to practice.

We are a circle of strangers at a distance virtually gathered to a possibility.

Nothing more and nothing less!

George

I thought Chansen is still married? You would have to find a place where you can marry multiple partners, some of them same sex. This is really getting complicated.
i would suggest to both of you to concentrate on your admin job and leave this relationship stuff alone.Don t you have enough to do?

It would have to be what's known as a polyamorous marriage. Not legal, though. And, although I don't know Mendalla's wife, I have met chansen's wife, and I'm not sure she'd allow it.

She doesn't like anything I do. Being thrown into a polygamist marriage would just be one more thing she is mad at me about.

Hi Kimmio,

I wouldn't think so.

One of the advantages of the internet is that it allows individuals to remain in contact no matter where they might find themselves in the world.  For all practical intents and purposes there would be no significant difference between individuals logging onto Wondercafe2 in Canada or India.

The only time a particular law might come into play would be if some authority wanted access to the server and then the jurisdictions that apply would be wherever the server is housed.

I'm not sure if this addresses your concern.

Grace and peace to you.

John

I'm not sure if it does either. I am thinking about if where it is accessed by an owner does anything to change rules governing ownership of the site's content. I understand, but could be wrong, that posters are subject to the laws of the land they are posting from, although I don't know what the differences are except I'm thinking US is far more of a litigious place (what we might shrug our shoulders at, someone in the states is suing somebody for... But don't anyone sue me for saying so ;) ). Like a factory is subject to employment laws where they are manufacturing, not where their head office is based. So my question remains do laws of the land apply to where the owner is actively doing the owning from or do the laws of the land apply to only the land where the site is registered to?

It's sort of been answered...but then the servers could be under one jurisdiction, the tax laws under another and the posters under another and the computer used to physically do admin under another and the Internet signal under another. It's all very blurry.

Kimmio, I think you're complicating things a bit.  If someone travels, and does some work on their computer while travelling, generally they don't need to worry about the laws of the country they are travelling within.  There are exceptions, but for the most part I don't think they will be affecting WC2 much, especially since videos and images can't be uploaded but are only being shared from other sites.

True. It is complicated. Although it's good to know. Also, if someone accesses our personal info from their work computer, like a site PM conversation attached to us and our contact information, does that employer own our information and third party access to that conversation. I would like to know these things if possible. It is different from UCCan being the owner accessing info onsite by UCCan staff on UCCan computers. It is different and these are not such crazy questions to ask. I don't really want XY Corp. reading my private messages. We give up a lot of privacy all the time and have gotten used to not questioning. I don't think that's a good thing. And it could be even more different, regarding questions asked above re crossing the border, depending on state laws etc- although I don't think much different between Canada and the US anymore.

Anyone can read your posts. Period. If you don't want it read, do not post it.

Here's something most sites don't tell you. In the database that stores all the posts, user information, and private messages, only the passwords are encrypted. The ramnifications are this: Anyone with keys to the database can, technically, read your PMs/Wondermails/Conversations by going through the database.

This goes for just about any online forum. Including WC1. Including WC2.

Would we, at WC2? No. Could we? Yes.

Ergo, if you worry about that sort of thing, do not send sensitive personal information by PM. It's not really "private".

Most site admins won't even tell you that. I will. I won't go through the database for PMs, but that option is available to me if I was an idiot.

I figured you probably could. So you won't. I believe you, chansen. Thank you. Could your employer or Pinga's or Mendalla's employer, or whoever admins, if you are using work computers? I have worked at places where they could remote monitor everything we're doing on work computers during work time. Work computers during anytime, I think.

I would assume most employers have usage rules - mine certainly does.  If an employee breaks those - discipline is the result.  I don't think the employer would honestly care about the content of stuff on WC2 - rather it may be action of utilization that may be the issue.  Honestly, I don't think you have much to worry about - it seems a bit of tempest in a teacup to me. 

Well. Depends who you work for and what your role is maybe? Some employers might have a whole different concept of privacy and information sharing. Look, I realize people can read our PMs. I wouldn't even really care if Aaron reads my PMs. I trust him that he wouldn't, but I also just trust him as a human being period. I don't necessarily trust "Big Huge XY Corp." and why should I?

No one at our employers, in any way, shape or form, cares about your PMs or mine. I promise you, nothing interests them less.

Okay, sure. Even if I criticize Big Huge XY Corporation in a PM? Or even a post? Not knowing who they are or that they are reading it?

On principle I just don't like that we are an open book to whoever's in control and we don't know who they are. A lot of people will say, it's nothing interesting to read who cares? And others will say, that's not the point. Snowden made that point loud and clear. Our privacy is almost non-existent but we should be able to know who we've given it up to. Is Big XY Corp. really different from Big Brother?

Actually, I'm going to be curtailing my use of WC and WC2 from work. New filtering regime dropped down from on high (starting tomorrow) and I'm not sure I could justify a lot of the time I spend on it in work terms. The odd drive-by at lunch could fit under our "occasional personal use" clause but not the amount of time I've been spending during the run-up to WC2.

Mendalla

Cool. Thanks for letting us know.

Doesn't matter. I don't think that's the point. Whether it's interesting to them or a snoozefest they still have the ability to read your PMs and you don't know who they are. That's the point.

Simple solution.  Don't post anything contentious......sweet, neutral stuff that won't offend the Internet gods and their minions, that won't awaken Big Brother and have us dragged off to torture and mind control. 

Actually, I rather prefer the structure proposed in Brave New World.  Don't know if I would like to be a Gamma, Delta or Epsilon.....no thinking involved and I would be Somatose most of the time....

Then treat PMs like they're public and be done with it. Why are we still talking about this?

Okay chansen. Okay. I'll bow my head and walk away.

1.  Yes, if material is posted to wondercafe and someone connects to it from their work computer, then, yes, whatever information the person read could be available to the big brother company.  Note: the company could not extend past that reading, ie, could not utilize the password to go and explore.

Now, the question is, would they.  

Odds are, no.  

For a big company to explore someone's posting, say, my company to look at my postings, they would first have to have grounds.  

After that, they would have to go through legal and HR, who would decide the scope of what they could review, over what time, and through what information.  

The only thing they would be looking for  is such items as "time spent during working hours -ie excessive usage",  posting intellectual property to the internet,, stealing intellecutal property, pornography, my personal breaking of policy or copyright, ie, if I were using work computer to download music, etc.

They wouldn't give a hoot about what you posted.  

It would be simply grounds for dismissal they were after.

Please note, there is actually no difference in the scenario above if we are under United Church of Canada site rules, or  running independently.

The exposure is simply what is being read / posted by the person who is the employee or contractor using a corporate asset.

It's different to me. Different organizations...anyway...What about PMs? They go looking for something you're alledgedly doing on work time do they have access to our PMs.

Kimmio, help me to understand what you think would be different.

If I, or anyone else, reads this site from work, the post can be read.  It doesn't matter if the site is run byt he UCC or independent.

unless I am misreading your question? 

Your concern is someone reading what you post  and their company reading it?

A pm is just text, it is like a private page.  So, if someone reads it from a computer, that is being investigated then it would be read.

That is the same if you used your computer at work, or if RevJohn did or if Mendalla did.   

They could only read what the person is browising/reading, ie , they cannot get the person's account password and do further investigations. That would leave them subject to very serious privacy charges.

Yep. Mainly PMs because I don't write them intending them to be public. Boring or not, doesn't matter. So I write to somebody that I really don't like XY Corp and the admin unbenounced to us happens to work for XY Corp. and you have access to the whole site's content, and they get access to check up on you what happens to us...or is it like Gecko says, just be nice, neutral mundane and agreeable with everything and there's no problem?

Note: if the police are involved, and there was a threat of terrorism or drugs or murder or whatever, then, that would be interesting, so, if I were you, I wouldn't put a threat of terrorism out there.

Note: I can think of one time that Admin may have engaged police, dont' know if they did, but it was due to the fake account and a request for money /gifts for a fake baby

If someone sends a WM (current site) and it gets forwarded to a work email, it might be read by that business.

Kimmio, 

If you send a PM to person A, and person A reads from work, and person A is under investigation then maybe their corporation would capture it, but they would have no idea who you are.

If you send a PM to person B, and person B accecces the internet from a public place with an insecure wifi, then someone clever may be able to read it.

If you send a PM to person C and person C has a hijacked computer due to malware, then the malware might be able to read it.

In none of those situations, does anyone know who you are.

Chemgal, lol, yes, if someone registered to this site with their work email, then the wondermail may be able to be scanned, again, only the person who recieives it would be subject.

Then again, anyone who uses their work email for registering to a non-work site is a rather foolish person.  Seriously.

They do if you sign your name to it and leave your phone number or mailing address or private email address if it contains your name. If person A has admin rights to the whole site, is not just a recipient of a PM, and the employer investigates them for a work related thing, what then?