oh - what a hard day for you all kay.  

The dynamics of that are so complex & multi-layered.  Not sure you as parents could have made things different though. 

Sorry to hear that Kay.  I know someone who went through multiple unhealthy relationships.  I think some people are just naturally attracted to people with traits that I often see going along with a tendency to be abusive.

They see them as someone who is passionate, outgoing, going to take care of them, etc.  I see them as cocky and arrogant.

I don't think it's a parenting issue.

kaythecurler - what an awful time for all of you.  Your daughter is lucky she has you to be there for her.  For now, she just needs to be safe.  Hopefully, in the future, she will be able to look at her life, and determine she wants better in life than what she has had.  Hopefully she will be able to get some counselling or help to figure out how to change things in in her life.

I agree with chemgal . . . I don't think this has been a parenting issue either - so don't beat yourself up over what you had no control over.

Caring thoughts are with you at this time.

When we ask certain questions we may be blaming the victim inadvertantly. Not many people set out to pick an abuser.

In the cycle of abuse there is Jeckyl and Hyde, saint and devil. They are the sweetest, most romantic, most sensitive... on one end. They are cruel, mean, nasty... on the other.

When you have experienced someone who can make you want to stay after a beating... others can seem flat or pale. The highs are higher than ever, the lows are just lower. The emotions and the damage can make you repeat the pattern.

The unhealed damage from an abusive relationship can result in repeating the pattern. It can be that they feel damaged, that they deserve it... Also, bearing the scars, visible to anyone experienced can be a signal for another abuser. Abusers prey on vulnerabilities.

They have been groomed and conditioned to be and kept a victim. One cannot blame them. We wouldn't if it were another form of abuse.

The stigma and stereotypes of domestic abuse are often what makes us do so.

Hi SG,

Agreed.  These folk aren't predatory so much as they are parasitical.  They do not set out to injure and move on to the next victim they appear more content to drian their victims dry.

And they do groom their victims, breaking them into patterns which accept each new indignity and ignite fear in the prospect that they might just move on if their "love" is not accepted.

Well put.  Humanity seems to have tremendous difficulty with anything "mental."  As soon as we cannot comprehend how another can tolerate what we won't tolerate rather than accepting that there is a gap in understanding we presume that the other must be damaged in some way and since the damage is not pysically obvious we blame thinking.

Rarely do we stop to consider the ways in which thinking is easily impaired and or shaped.

Agreed.  When folk need help they should get help not disapproving glances and commentary.

In some instances it almost takes a deprogramming to get those who have been groomed to not fall for familiar patters and routines.  Reconditioning is not an easy process particularly when one is not aware of all the conditioning that has taken place to groom individuals to be willing hosts.

Grace and peace to you.

John

I've also seen women who "see only the good in people." Some think of that as a positive trait, but when choosing who to date, it can be very dangerous. There are often warning signs that go ignored, or women assume they can "fix him."

As I was once the proverbial "nice guy" who girls counted as a friend but never wanted to date, it used to drive me crazy to see girls I was interested in flocking to guys who put on a facade, but who actually had little respect for anyone but themselves.

I don't think saying someone is attracted to a particular type is victim blaming.  I actually encouraged one of the relationships in the beginning, as I thought it would work out.

chemgal, one is not "attracted" to abuse. One finds themselves there. One is conditioned. One is scarred. One is programmed. One feels unworthy.....Few people are in abusive relationships because they are masochists. Are there traits one can find endearing or attractive that are dangerous or are warning signs? Yes. "Just because" calls or texts can be seen as "attentive". They can also be a warning that someone is checking up on you and leans to the controlling. It often takes knowledge of domestic violence to see that as a warning sign. It also can take experience of non-abusive relationships to see sweet gestures as anything but a warning sign.

Saying that "someone is attractive to a particular type", implies there is a particular type who are abusers. We would not tell the woman who marries a police officer, judge, minister... that it was her bad picks or the kind of guy she chose. They can be as abusive as anyone else. There is no looking at someone and saying "Yeah, that is a batterer". Just as one cannot look at someone and say, "they are battered."

thanks SG - I was hoping you would arrive in this conversation, with your wealth of experience and wise perspectives. 

Kaythecurler, how you doing today?

I'm thinking that was an exhausting, frustrating day and probably a whole bunch of days before.

just thinking of you.

Hi chemgal,

It would be if it was the victim who was the one being attracted.  I don't think that is the case.  I don't believe most go out looking to find someone to abuse them.  A few might but that is an entirely other matter.

I think that the one whom is attracted is the one who abuses.  In much the same way any predator is drawn to prey.  What is different in the human case is that predator and prey are same species.  It is a form of cannibalism.  Sheep know enough to run from wolves.  They would not run from other sheep even if those other sheep had dark intent.  Hence the wolf in sheep's clothing adage.

So, women or men go out looking for love and the predators find them.  The predators are looking for specific traits that make their prey an easy target, easy to separate from a protective herd.  In that respect the predator is attracted to a particular type whereas the prey is simply responding hopefully to what looks like another member of the flock.

Ironically wolves have more in common with the dogs that protect flocks of sheep.  How does the dog know that the wolf doesn't belong?  Well they are both inherently predators and so the wolf is a rival to be chased off.  Not all dogs are quick to recognize intruders as rival predators.  Which means that in our role as protectors of lambs we might wag a tail in a friendly manner when another dog trots up.

It isn't until we see the predator in the other that we start to respond as a guardian should.

And of course we aren't dogs so we second guess ourselves.  I might feel like growling whenever some mutt comes nosing around my daughters and yet most of that is probably primal pack aggression than actual indicator of real threat.  As father to two daughters I have to be careful as to when my hackles raise or my judgment will be discounted.

Doesn't mean that I won't be any less vigilant.  It means that I try to be more tail waggy than tooth barey.  In the event tooth and claw are necessary I have enough of both.

The trick in the end is to teach prey how not to be an easy target for the predators that are always roaming about.  If we were predators ourselves we would be able to see what attracts predators all to easily.  The fact that we aren't predatory means that we likely will not see how any prey unwittingly sets the table for their predators and what is worse, we will not see how our interaction with our loved ones sets the table for potential predators to dine on our loved ones.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Kay - I just want to say thank you for being so supportive of your daughter. Her choice of partners is not your fault. You and your partner are modelling true love for her - and I hope she will find a true love of her own some day.

Kay - I just found this thread.   As one who has been there with my daughter (although without the physical abuse), my heart goes out to you. 

Thanks for the supportive comments offered.  It hasn't been the best of weeks around here.  Between us we are coping, each doing what we are able.  Eventually it will be easier to handle, I hope.  Right now he is being very difficult to understand.