Pinga - is there any way you can change those lines?  Get rid of them?  In all honesty if I had heard that when my kids were small, I would have hit the roof.  

Can't  the line be re-written as, "Santa Claus will bring most of the presents after you're asleep on Christmas Eve. And speaking of gifts, why should Santa be the only one giving this Christmas?  Why don't we donate some of what we have to charity this year? Or make our White Gift bigger?"

Something like that?

 yeah, i'm thinking other parents may hit the roof as well.

now, my challenge is...what to do with the scripts that were sent home...argh!!

I may have to make some quick phone calls tomorrow.

i figure if even one parent would hit the roof or be upset, then, i need to adjust...as it is not critical to the story..though the minister may feel it is that wrote it...argh!!!!

kicking myself for not having read the play from start to end...it just started so well!  and overall looked pretty good.

 ps..dont' get me wrong, i am not advocating preaching santa....but, i am also thinking, as diana seems to also have agreed..that the white gift service or the christmas pageant  with all the kids in, is not the place to "out" Santa....

argh...sigh...

Oodles . . . you are going to be in oodles of trouble, pinga .

Actually, you would only have to change a few words or lines . . . hopefully you will be able to do that easily and get the rewrites out to the parents/children.

 Isn't it frustrating when you do something so well-intentioned and work so hard, and then realize that it may all backfire?  If you're worried about adjusting the readings out of respect for the author, just think about the lectionary....today we're reading Luke 12:13-17, 21 & 22......we adjust all the time, and that's the BIBLE!!

I'm sure your actors will totally sympathize, and will have no trouble with some minor re-writes.  I'm sure it will be great.

 lol, i am worried if any of those kids still believe...i don't think so..the readers tend to be older, but you never know...

ok, that's it..

change the wording.

and yes, diana, as..well, to be honest, our CD has basically fallen apart due to a lack of access to the church school wing ( elevator construction), a lack of access to our resources/material  (old CD room knocked out and new one under construction), and of course, me being busy, and then my mom's death / funeral, etc...and other things happenign with other committee members ...(illness, work)....so...the normal reviews weren't done and just trusted there would be no hiccups as was united church material.  lol, it is why i went with united church material as we are so behind.

Definitely change the wording - I'm sure the minister will understand when you explain why. I would also write to the distributor and let them know why you felt uncomfortable with it.

 Change the wording and make the calls.

Actually I don't like any of the wording of the bit you posted but that is just me.

any chance you can rewrite the whole bit.

MOTHER: Well, don’t peek! You need to have some surprises. 

CHILD: Um, Mom. You keep saying Christmas is about more than presents and trees, 

MOTHER: Maybe you’re right. But we all love to give gifts at Christmas as we celebrate the gift of Jesus to us.  And we parents love to keep it a big surprise.

CHILD: If I take a peek I won't tell anyone

MOTHER: No! But we could do something different this year.  What if we worked together to get some White GIfts for the kids in need in the area.  Then you can help me with the surprise for those gifts

or something else??

Thanks folks.

I'm wondering what the ministers say.

I get that some feel that we reduce the mystery of Jesus by allowing things such as Santa Claus into our family rituals.    I get that we may  spend too much on Santa gifts.  My sense is that is a sermon content for adults, rather than to their kids.

 ps... this was written by a united church of canada minister, and posted on the United Church of Canada white gift service material site.

Definitely writing an email this morning, lol, thinking there should be a caution....

I believe if we are going to tell fairy tale stuff to other people's children-  many, many things, but say like shepherds and wise men and everyone being there at the same time... we have no business complaining about the fairy tales people tell their own children. Just my 2 cents

 agreed, SG.

The play does try to unpack some of our adult stuff...like the "christmas season" in school...

I get why it was in, i think it could have been written subtely enough to speak to the adults without being a hammer to the kids.

Hi - not quite ordained minister, but I'm paid to do this stuff-and I say definitely change the lines.  Maybe that minister wrote it with input from parents at her/his church - in a small Sunday School, it may be exactly what was needed.

I love Santa, and have always had my older daughter help create Santa for my younger son.  I think the beauty of the story that we should develop is that Santa is SAINT Nick, who is only wonderful because he is faithful to Jesus/God.  Hello- nothing wrong there.

I think the church best serves people by having Santa part of the delight of baby Jesus - part of the celebration, and bridging the gap between faith & secular life.  So maybe you can rewrite the lines to include Santa like that (Lastpointe's was good - tweak it a bit more)

Also, maybe think about how it sounds related to the Santa is real/Santa is not real debate.  Santa is totally real, from a wonderful & magical & loving point of view.  Santa is not real like a flesh & blood dude dropping down our chimneys.  But we have this debate all the time about biblical stuff.  If we're teaching our kids some critical thinking, thinking beyond true/false and considering true ideas vs true facts, then Santa is not a problem any more.

adding another little thought - I don't believe the story of Luke, in the sense that the details are anywhere close to Jesus' birth story, nor do I care.  BUT on Christmas Eve, when we're all gathered, its as true as milk and cookies that the wonder of the story describes love's power in the world.    So Santa is just an extension of that, for me, and he is welcome in my  home any time.

 Birthstone, thank-you...

hmm, wrathof the artist will be born.

Note: i like it as the parent is clearly frazzled..why are we doing this, blah, blah..and the child says..but mom.....  and then proceeds to share information....

Here's the link: 

White Gift Service 2010

Would It Still Be Christmas? [PDF: 14 pp/167 KB]

A five-act drama for your White Gift Sunday service.

I don't claim to speak on behalf of either all ministers or all parents, but as a minister who is a parent, I'd be upset if my CE people did a children's Christmas presentation and "outed" Santa.

Santa is a part of the fun of Christmas -  for children and adults. I love the pictures of my daughter with Santa. Please don't out Santa. 

The closest I've ever come was about 3 or 4 years ago when, speaking with the children during a Christmas Eve family service, I went over the reasons why Jesus is more important to us than Santa, but I'd never deny the jolly old man's existence.

so, you have to wonder....how did this play make it to the United Church of Canada's recommended white gift 2010 play without anyone catching this bit.

again..an argh...

Parents and readers should be understanding of mistakes like this and last minute corrections.  Changing the lines seems to be the way to go -- you've got some good advice up-thread.

A couple years ago the minister had skimmed through a play and handed it to me to have the teens do, so I skimmed through it, photocopied it, and distributed it.  We ran a rehearsal and then my jaw hit the floor -- it ended with a short section about how only Christians are saved and you have to accept Jesus into your heart to live forever.

So the minister and I quickly rewrote the ending and gave out new scripts.  Thankfully, the teens I had as actors are easy going and are critical thinkers (so this brief snippet of conservative theology didn't sink in -- they just shrugged it off).

Poor choice on behalf of the writer IMO.

Change the lines.

Change the lines. Or you will be in big doo doo.

I one found myself there when the narrator read directly from the bible " to whom he was engaged and was expecting a child". This mother did not want her child to hear this and besides it wasn't true. They were married. Grrrr - big doo, Pinga.

But in this case I would not have made the chagne CH.  The story is the story.  This issue is for the mother to sort out.  Sometimes we need to educate the parents as well....

The question for me is not "Will people be upset?".  The question for me is "Is this pastorally appropriate?"  and in the Santa case it is not caring or appropriate.

Well, so far we have a unanimous -- CHANGE IT!

Also, fyi, the few parents that have responded have been understanding so far as i reached out to have the scripts be removed.

I  didn't, Gord and I wouldn't. I don't think the woman wanted to work it out but I tried .Some people's ears are for closing -  and not listening And as we have seen in WC discussion isn't all its cut out to be LOL

I'd change it Pinga-the belief in santa lasted later tha most-about grade 7-for my children.

When doubt appeared they set up cameras, set alarms for midnight-but alas all was disabled.

My daughter even slept by the tree one night and missed seeing santa.

(My kids are extremely deep sleepers-I'd shut my daughter's alarm off each year after it rang-I'd just yank the cord out of the wall-she never woke and was sure sanata did it)

So, Pinga, what is happening?

Get rid of the lines about Satan Claus and focus on the essentials.

Go with Lastpoints edit and it will be fine.  You may want to offer your feedback to the author of the play Rev. Sheila Campbell because the entire Santa reference should be omitted imo.

 I have contacted the United Church staff who will review (individual responsible not in office) -- the least that I think we can do is give people a heads up.  ideally, they would contact the writer. 

I am editing tomorrow night.  Tongiht was a beatitudes meditation ight, last night was a night out, and monday night was...me being lazy.

Perhaps a "Spoiler Alert" on the website would have helped.

 lol

I would really hate it if someone told me how the Christmas story was going to end. Every year, the fun is in the suspense - will the baby be born or not?

Pinga, 

Diana's suggestion for rewriting the Santa line is a good one, I think.  I just had a look at the dialogue for the skit, and it should be easy enough to do.  I agree with all the comments which have been made about "outing" Santa Claus.

There are a few other aspects of the skit which I dislike - - the "holiday" concert issue, the real vs. artificial tree debate, the suggestion about doing away with stockings, etc.   In my household, stockings are a cherished tradition.

Finally, the whole thing seems rather lengthy and "preachy" to me.

 well, folks.

I just reviewed the creative commons for this play:

http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-nc-nd/2.5/ca/

It explicitly states you cannot alter it.

Given that I don't know how to reach the minister, and there is a delay due to travel in response from the United church staff.....I am doing a rapid change on what we are doing next week.

What about the waiver, pinga, if you get permission from the author?  Do you know the author - is it listed?

  Just read it in the context of the play... I'm not sure it outs Santa at all.

No Derivative Works — You may not alter, transform, or build upon this work.

Pinga - this only applies if you plan on sharing the work.  It does not apply to performing it. 

 Hi, Meredith -

I just finished reading the legalese behind the "nd" license and I think that performance of an altered work would actually be in contravention of that specific license. It becomes a "work based upon the Work". 

Of course, I Am Definitely Not A Lawyer. *grin*

Christ's peace - r

The rebel in me says, if you did change it and didn't say anything here - nobody official would ever have to know.  

 I need to respect the artist and their wishes.  It has nothing to do what is legal or not....it is all about respecting their wishes.

Given that, and that, though if I had figured this out earlier, I could probably have resolved it, I will not be using the play.

 ps...richard, i did find her through linked in, and it appears she is no longer serving as a minister? well, if i read her linked in profile correctly

One of the things that I found was it is easier to write your own children's material. That way you can put in what you want. One thing that I found is that a narrator is good and then anyone who comes can join. Very inclusive of visitors.

I always liked to make the Children's service more inclusive by having a teen , a child , an adult, a single, an elder.and so on. No speaking parts is really helpful.

I know that this is not for everyone.

A few thoughts to offer:

- Pinga calls this the recommended White Gift service for 2010. I consider this to be a resource and nothing more - the UCC is not suggesting that you use this over any other WG service out there.

- Richard that is not my understanding of creative commons but I'm not going to argue over it.  If you are correct it is a shame that authors feel compelled to place such stringent copyrights on materials for worship to the point that they cannot be altered without permission because it isn't helpful.  If such a strict copyright is demanded it doesn't seem helpful to me either that there is no way to contact the author to get permission to alter the work.

- if I get inspired some day to write such a service I will submit it with no copyright and folks can do whatever the heck they want.  I'm just happy they're doing it. 

 Hi Meredith, I may have misunderstood.

On the United Church of Canada site, there is a link "white gift services and Ideas".  

When you go to that link, it has a title "white gift service 2010" and under it , there is one play -- this one.

There is also a title "otehr services", and a bunch of links.  we have previously done a couple of them..and with more time, would look forward to doing more of them.

Update:  I have received a communication which allows me to make minor changes as long .  I have been advised that there will be an update posted on the United Church site which carries the intent (from the minister who wrote it) as well as permissions

Anyhow, it was worth asking. It was good we had this dialogue.  I feel better.

Why?  I had changed my mind in the wee hours on Sunday, pondering the amount of work that the children had already put in, and the energy they had for their roles and the staging/discussions that had occurred...and decided I would proceed with a minor wording change... I felt bad, guilty and was really struggling with my own conscience on this one.

Having that email this morning lifted a burden from me..and so, I am thankful that I asked, dialogued and received a response.

Thanks for the update Pinga! I am glad it all seems to have worked out in the end.

Hopefully what you went through with this Pinga will help others and push the UCCan to consider these issues when posting resources in the future.

But Santa IS real.

http://www.stnicholascenter.org/Brix?pageID=23

 Tyson has a point. NATO tracks his sleigh every Christmas Eve. Isn't that objective evidence of Santa's existence?

 Well, folks.  This was White Gift Sunday...

Yesterday found us practicising from 1pm to 3pm.....silly me had forgotten the sanctuary is booked until 2pm for the choir director, and due to an amazing concert that is happening on Wed night, it was needed by him...(Anyone within driving distance of Cambridge....Phillip Grant is a fabulous tenor, who is also fun for youth to hear, as he has a great rapport ...and signing with the Cambridge Kiwanis boy choirs. on Wednesday night -- (end of shameless plug))

so....we practiced in the hall with the stage, then, moved up...oh, it was chaotic, and of course, with the construction..finding the costumes was fun, and children were missing, and all that...the lines were practiced, scenes out of order to handle the kids who culd not be there...my 6' tall son stood in for Joseph beside the wee Mary..

youth were asked to come back for 9am, and the staging continued, when do the animals go on? who is joseph -- yeah! they arrived!...ooh, the shepherd wants to be a lamb..no problem...wait...where'd the angels go....how are we for timing? oops, not enough older youth, can the parents help do white gift? offering...ok, all is well.  Now, would anyone come....it was a snowy, slippery greasy morning....some might choose to stay home.

Delightfully, the congregation was quite full....and the nervous energy was wonderful, the little ones, went back & forth, waiting for their turn.

The congregation was asked to hear their truth in the story.....

The adaptations to support the congregations response readings, and singing went well.  The readers all used their mics well.

The congregation laughed for the kids, and smiled & nodded their head.  They go the message, felt the edge, sang along.  The children also learned, by acting and reading.

In the end, the children were happy knowing they had done a great job.  

Hats off to the playwright, for our congregation is a fairly diverse group of people in many ways, and I had people who I know identify as Progressive Christians, and those who would define themselves more as traditional who truly felt it was a wonderful play and message.  

There were approx 20 children involved in the play -- 4 actor-readers, 2 narrators, 12 actors for mother/daughter, mary/joseph, wisemen, shepherds, angel, animals, baby,