What exactly is the problem?

What goal does this group (First Call) want?

Isn't it all Christian's duties to give up their lives for the poor?

The problem, I believe, is systemic inequality.


First Call is a youth advocacy group.


We should be doing more, evidently.

First action, make minimum wage a living wage.

I agree. I would also say, bring rent prices down. More safe, clean and affordable housing. I don't think that was mentioned in the report.

Man, talk aboot confusing (thank you, Eris) nuance; the report admits that Canada does not have an official way of measuring poverty (that's kinda shocking to me).   The report uses a metric called LICO which was produced by Stats Can (which Stats Can says isn't a measure of poverty --there is a 1997 report by Stats Can, "On Poverty and low income"

where they state lots of nuance; quite a bit of stuff I didn't know before...read it) -- according to that metric, I'm living in poverty

The entry in wikipedia on poverty in Canada gives links to various different organizations and their metrics for poverty in Canada

Happy researching, folks :3

(jeeze, it'd be interesting to see a list of all the different metrics and who uses them)

Basically, if you're not adequately able to meet the rent for decent basic housing, the utility bills and buying the basic groceries and basic clothing needed to feed and clothe the family unit- no extras- that's poverty. Many people are below that, and significantly. I remember studying this in school, and it's just a memory of the class conversation and a comment somebody made that stands out- but basically, the 'measure' of welfare in BC would have it that if you can afford a big bag of rice and any old room to rent, they've met the need. Not even subsistence level. That's exaggeration, but not really. There are kids going to school hungry. Kids living in cramped inadequate housing.

There's poverty, and there's abject poverty. We have too much of both.

There seem to be two overall metrics of measuring poverty (which also determines what is poverty...): absolute & relative.  Both seem to look for and can discover different things.

The way you just wrote seems to be part of the absolute category, subcategory basic needs approach.

Apparently what is listed as a basic need (and, thus, what constitutes being in poverty or not) can be different depending on the agency.  Sanitation, education & healthcare can be included in the criteria.

I do hope the Feds get their act together to think up of some Canadawide social norms toward poverty...get their act together :3

(viscerally what I automatically think of as poverty is literally having nothing -- no home, no food, etc)

(the report that you gave the link to, they say is falling below a certain yearly income, a chart done by stats can, but stats can says it isn't intended to be)

But it's income relative to cost of living. In there somewhere it points out how the same sized family unit living in Vancouver vs. Prince George differ. The Vancouver unit could have more income and be below the poverty line, a little less in PG and still be above it. But wages and welfare rates are the same.

For myself and what I need, I think of poverty as food and shelter insecurity- after meeting that the rest is a gift- but it's more than that. Kids need more than just food and shelter. And many aren't even getting enough food or a decent place to live.

Two parent families with two kids: both parents need to be making a bit over $19/ hr 35 hrs/ wk in Van, to not be below poverty (if that's just AT the poverty line- by one measure anyhow- it's no wonder so many are struggling). The minimum wage here is 10.25/ hr. The cost of living here is ridiculous. I have skimmed Craigslist recently and many if not most retail and food services/ hospitality jobs are offering only min wage. Maybe $10.50. Ones offering $11-12 hr call it "competitive wages". $15-18 to work in what I used to do in community/ social services. Used to be $21. to start (6-7 years ago), but the union jobs are fading away.

Kimmio

Sorry I don't have much hope that conditions will improve very much for the poor in Canada. I used to read ( not sure how it is now) that no province wanted to offer higher welfare or  more gov't housing than the other because that meant too many poor Canadians would settle in the highest welfare  paying province  or city.

There were complaints in the past that the poor from the maritimes were relocating to Van. because of the warmer weather i.e. the homeless could live in Stanley Park year round. ( That was before Van. weather became colder and had so much snow.)

I'm not up to date but I think Rob Ford is trying to sell off 900 or 600 ...?.... gov't subsidized houses or buildings  in Toronto because of the high cost of repairs. Possibly this idea got scrapped by now. We need the housing desperately. A lot of welfare families are being kept in one room seedy  hotels in the east end of Toronto waiting for some kind of housing.

I don't think Harper is too concerned about the poverty issue.

I think it is still considered a warmer place to be, Vancouver, that is. The weather's about average this year. We get the odd freak bad winter with a week or so of snow, but generally mild. Only a few winters in my life that I remember being like that. Plus 6 right now. It's an advantage if you're poor- for getting around. But cold comfort really, if a person has nothing. This report card should embarass us here.

I'm a bit mixed on making minimum wage a living wage.  Ideally someone supporting themselves wouldn't be working a minimum wage job.  Is it neccessary for people just making spending money to be making a living wage?  Are we all willing to live with the increase in costs to do so?

For some people it would br extra, for others it's necessary. Ideally, but there are lots of people (university grads at starbuck's for example) who don't have yet, or those who don't have the skills, the academic ability or opportunity who still need to earn a living. If two ppl work full time, they should be able to meet the basics to live.

Christian duty? Hmmmm.... What does the good book have to say....?

Anyone should have the basics needed to live. What I meant was that if 2 parents working full time- no matter what job- can't meet the basic needs of a family of 4, something is wrong with this picture.

Rather than a minimum wage, what is needed is a Guarenteed Annual Income similar to the Child Tax Benefit.  The Manitoba experiment indicated such a program would reduce a wide variety of costs including health care and administrative.  We also need an innovative, proactive housing program.  I am astounded by the costs of some housing projects, wondering where the money is going.  The University of Calgary is starting a student residence project projected to cost $240,000,000 for 286 one and two-bedroom units.

That's just under a million per unit!

I heard of the Manitoba experiment. It worked quite well. People would be up in arms that it's "socialism- oh, no!" though. Some Scandinavian countries have something similar, no?

If we had that, more people could afford to shop for things they need, and would therefore be putting more money back into the economy anyway.

Unless we had some kind of guaranteed annual income...Every rental apartment building should include some sliding scale based below market cost rental units- adjusted for percentage of income spent on rent relative to income earned. Because, I think it's blatantly unfair and unjust that a person can work full time and, with what they are paid, not afford to live in this country. I can't remember where I read it, but I read there is a very high number of working young adults in Vancouver spending 3/4 or more of their income on rent. Consumer debt has gone up, and it's not just due to indiscriminate spending. I don't expect the current gov't will be moving very fast on this issue, though. And the Liberal's focus is the middle class.

I was thinking more of national programs and parties.

As it is there's a shortage of rentals here.  Isn't that just going to deter people from becoming landlords, contributing to the problem?  A low vacancy rate leads to more people buying, but that bumps prices up, and although housing is still affordable here compared to other places it isn't cheap.  Buying isn't always great either, depending on the situation.

Landlords are usually paid by management companies- for big buildings. Ours live in the building, get free rent and some pay (? how much). Yeah, it's all condos going up here, too.

other ways of 'dealing with' poverty & low income

I personally find the tatoo advertising idea obscene- people marked for life with corporate branding. But...that shouldn't surprise anyone.

There are lots of multi-generational homes in Vancouver. Lots of families would not go for that idea- mine included.

Micro apartments will start to become more and more of a necessity in cities. Their costs may not necessarily stay low, though. I've seen photos of some nice converted shipping crate apartments, including a new project in Vancouver. They won't help a family of 4 a whole lot, no matter how state of the art they are.

i also like the idea of guaranteed income (it appeals to the utopian in me)

i'm still fond of technocracy (my dad's bio dad was a 'follower' of that movement)...they had some nifty idears...

i recall there used to be an affiliate close by Boundary & King George Highway...

(...i wonder if there is going to come a time when a human being will be able to set an AI program or robot to a task and get paid for it; i'm imagining one person being able to set multiple AI programs or robots to different tasks and then getting paid for it...hmm...that'll be ok, until the time when yer toaster starts demanding rights...)

looky here

make your own batteries

CHEAP!!!

(good youtube channel for making your own stuff...)