http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/politics/archives/2012/11/20121120-...
http://www.sunnewsnetwork.ca/sunnews/politics/archives/2012/11/20121122-...
Does Trudeau ever expect me to vote for him now? To me, it sounds as though the Liberal party doesn't want us to have a fair say. It was bad enough that for a while we didn't have an equal vote due to the larger population/MP here.
© WonderCafe. All Rights Reserved
Brought to you by the people of The United Church of Canada
Opinions expressed on this site are not necessarily those of WonderCafe or The United Church of Canada
Comments
GordW
Posted on: 11/23/2012 12:05
I don't speak French so I can not listen to the original interview as to what he actually said in context. Which makes it hard to comment on. I know the sort of spin Sun News is likely to add to any comments (seeing as they tend to be virulently anti-LPC and somewhat less virulently less anti-Quebec).
Was Trudeau also playing politics and currying favour in Quebec? Most likely.
And given that Steohen Harper is originally from Ontario can Alberta take the whole blame?
chemgal
Posted on: 11/23/2012 12:30
Sorry, this is the second link I meant to post:
http://fullcomment.nationalpost.com/2012/11/22/matt-gurney-this-country-...
They all came from facebook friends and I grabbed the wrong one, similar stories though.
I do find the quoting a little odd, can you quote a translation? The overall sentiment is still there though.
Mendalla
Posted on: 11/23/2012 12:58
Trudeau is spouting the usual "I was quoted out of context" line that politicians use when caught flatfooted by an old quote, so I'm guessing he really said what they say he said. Given that another government MP said much the same thing recently (which prompted Sun to release this), it does fit a pattern. I hate to say it, but Liberals aren't getting the message that they can no longer count on arrogance and regionalism to get into and stay in power. I'm left of centre and dislike Sun and the Conservatives (who also play the regionalism game), but a return to old style Liberal arrogance isn't going to solve anything other than ensure the Conservatives get another term. Trudeau does not deserve to be leading a national party. Genes or not, he doesn't have all that much experience and would turn the Liberal focus back on Quebec. I actually think the Liberals would be better served by someone from the West or Ontario at this point (Rae, for instance). I'm a Green and former NDP voter, though, and haven't voted Liberal in over twenty years (and that time was because I liked the local MP) so perhaps I'm just not in the target audience.
Mendalla
Jim Kenney
Posted on: 11/23/2012 14:39
The fact that the media and the Conservatives made so much fuss reflects their concern a Liberal might win in Calgary Centre.
MikePaterson
Posted on: 11/23/2012 14:53
Sun Media? National Post? Chemgal, you're into some weird media!
Mendalla
Posted on: 11/23/2012 16:04
Sun Media? National Post? Chemgal, you're into some weird media!
Sun has great entertainment value when I'm in the right mood . Haven't really read the Post in years other than the odd time an article from it comes up here or in news aggregators like Google News.
Mendalla
Kimmio
Posted on: 11/23/2012 18:11
I don't get sun news tv, but I have watched some clips on the internet and I thought they were parody--well, I knew they were sun news--I guess I couldn't believe they were for real. Almost like Glenn Beck and Bill O'Rilley and Rush Limbaugh. Whoever these guys were, can't remember the names-- the Canadian versions of Beck Limbaugh and O'Rilley.
That said, I think Justin Trudeau was out of line with some of his comments. Then again, wasn't his dad as well? Justin and I are about the same age. I was a very young kid during Pierre Trudeau's time, but I have read and heard stories. So, maybe he picked up (or learned) some of his dad's traits.
On the other hand, I admired his tenacity with a couple of his comments (not about Albertans), and I would like to see someone younger, who's in touch with younger Canadians (and yet, not too far out of touch with the boomer generation--he's right in the middle), become PM.
Witch
Posted on: 11/23/2012 18:04
I get all my news from World Nut Daily
Mendalla
Posted on: 11/23/2012 18:51
That said, I think Justin Trudeau was out of line with some of his comments. Then again, wasn't his dad as well? Justin and I are about the same age. I was a very young kid during Pierre Trudeau's time, but I have read and heard stories. So, maybe he picked up (or learned) some of his dad's traits.
This is not necessarily a good thing. I admire some of what Pierre accomplished. The 1982 Constitution Act, for all it flaws, was a good thing in my estimation. His reforms as Justice Minister were bang on (ending blue laws, liberalizing divorce laws, etc.). However, I also feel that he was dead wrong about other things and his confrontational style probably helped exacerbate both the Quebec situation and the East-West divide (didn't create them, but made them worse).
Mendalla
ninjafaery
Posted on: 11/23/2012 19:03
If anyone here is fluent in French....
The Dauphin has something very special. He has seasoned politicians as mentors & advisors. I know he would be well-coached by Rae, Cretien, et al., & that would be truly great IMHO
(anyone ever hear of all the old, Canada-hating
comments that our PM made a few years ago?)
Jim Kenney
Posted on: 11/23/2012 19:41
As an Albertan (3rd Generation) I think Albertans as a whole need to grow up a bit and quit being as self-centered and thin-skinned as they are. Too many of our Conservative MPs are either close to being dead weight or liabilities, sort of like many of our local columnists. I wish Justin, when talking about the Northern Gateway would have said, "I find it hard to believe that the Northern Gateway Pipeline is the best choice for a route for a pipeline to get Alberta oil to overseas markets. surely there are options that represent less risk to the environment."
ab penny
Posted on: 11/23/2012 20:13
Bang on, Jim.
Mendalla
Posted on: 11/23/2012 20:58
Chretien as a mentor doesn't inspire confidence in me, I'm afraid. Chretien accomplished a lot but much of that can be credited to Martin as his Finance Minister. Like Trudeau (pere), his greatest accomplishments were in Cabinet, not in 24 Sussex. He also gave us some of the worst abuses of power in my lifetime (which carried on into Martin's ill-fated administration). Rae I have more confidence in but I'd much rather he run for the job himself than mentor Trudeau.
Of course Harper plays the confrontation card every bit as much as Trudeau (pere) and Chretien, but I'm not sure replacing Harper with Trudeau (fils) really accomplishes anything if Trudeau just drags us into yet another round of confrontational politics. I'd like to see someone run for office in this country who doesn't slam his opponents, diss other parts of the country, or assume that they are entitled to the perks of power without due regard for the responsibilities.
Trudeau isn't impressing me so far. Neither is Harper. Neither, to be honest, is Mulcair. At least with Harper, we aren't getting any surprises. He's pretty much delivering what anyone familiar with his politics would expect and he's had surprisingly few public scandals given that he's leading a Conservative government.
Barring a miracle (ie. some sanity from one or more of the three majors), I'll be voting Green until I die at this rate.
Mendalla
graeme
Posted on: 11/23/2012 21:23
Justin Trudeau is not his father. I knew his father. I see little, if any, of his ability in the son. Having said that, I also have to agree with young Jim Kenny that Albertans are thin-skinned and self-centred. I've seen it at every national conference I've ever been to. And it goes way back.
The founding of the Social Credt party was based on tapping the willingness of Albertans to blame all there problems on the east. It was the big interests of the east that kept Alberta poor. As it turned out, Social Credit turned out to be a big buddy of the eatern big interests, and premier manning retired to become a director of almost a dozen of them.
Alberta is still playing the same, silly game - with the added smugness that they have oil and it's all theirs and nobody else can touch it. And once again, that plays into the hands of the big corporations who really own the oil. And it also produces a prime minister who's a close, close buddy of those evil "Big interests in the east".
Alberta just loves repeating its own history.
chemgal
Posted on: 11/24/2012 21:25
Trudeau isn't impressing me so far. Neither is Harper. Neither, to be honest, is Mulcair.
*sigh* Yep.
At least I have a good MP. I'll probably be voting based on the MP come next election.
Kimmio
Posted on: 11/24/2012 21:58
Elizabeth May just won Parliamentarian of the Year from MacLean's magazine. I do like her. I am not in her constituency though. I think she works harder than all of the MP's in parliament combined.
chemgal
Posted on: 11/24/2012 22:05
I can't support the party's stance on pseudoscience, especially when it comes to healthcare.
Kimmio
Posted on: 11/24/2012 22:31
The Green's? I don't know about that. But I won't debate that, the 'pseudoscience' thing. I am in a bad mood, and my opinion is not likely to be 100% conventional.
All I can say is Elizabeth May, I think is super hard working and she always brings awareness to the public about what's going on behind the scenes that we don't hear about.
Jim Kenney
Posted on: 11/24/2012 22:45
chemgal, can you explain the pseudoscience comment?
chemgal
Posted on: 11/24/2012 22:48
I would have to go back and look it up, as it was something I looked into during the last election. It was part of the platform though. I believe homeopathy was one of the things they were supporting.
chemgal
Posted on: 11/24/2012 22:56
A quick google search isn't giving it to me from their page directly, but this one does have quotes. Sorry, I would prefer to post the original, but don't care enough to search for it right now!
http://www.skepticnorth.com/2011/04/voting-green-read-this/
Jim Kenney
Posted on: 11/25/2012 10:24
Thank you. I have issues with some of their other policies. Problems like this arise when a comparatively small number of people meet for their annual conventions to set policy.
PKBC
Posted on: 11/25/2012 10:49
Bases on all the corruption allegations that have been coming
out of Quebec over the past 20 yrs I think we need more
westerns in government not fewer
Kimmio
Posted on: 11/25/2012 12:31
I read that paper and I somewhat agree with their platform mentioned there. I have used a homeopathic treatment. It was recommended by a doctor who had conventional and homeopathic training.It worked (it is called arnica, for fast healing of bruising). I had a burst blood vessel on the white of my eye (looked way more serious than it actually was--some fleck of dust or sand or something got into my eye and scratched/ bruised it so the whole white looked bloody), and it sped the healing up twice as fast--and I have used arnica cream on regular bruises and they heal in a jiff--it really does work fast--so it can't be all bad, imo. I don't think I would use it for anything really serious.
chemgal
Posted on: 11/25/2012 12:53
Kimmio, the point of homeopathy is that the more you dilute something the more 'potent' it gets. Usually these dilutions are done to the point where there is actually nothing in there. Sometimes this isn't true though, which can also create problems, a popular example was with a zinc nasal spray. The zinc concentration was too high and people lost their sense of smell.
The homeopathic principle is wrong. Dose is important, but when you get something so dilute that there's no active ingredient and then dilute it again by taking half the mixture and half water, there's no way you can get 2x the effect, but that's what homeopaths say.
Kimmio
Posted on: 11/25/2012 13:28
Hmm. I don't know how whatever I used worked, and continued to the second and third and fourth times I used it, but it did.
My dad is a doctor, and he's a good one--but I do know that the medical field is strongly biased toward the pharmaceutical companies. i.e. all the free samples, and discounts at nice hotel conventions, and little kitchy gimmicks they give out etc. As a kid I remember getting little toys and calendars with the pharmaceutical company's "mascots" on them. Don't you think there's a chance that those things bias a doctor's opinion? I do--but then again if that particular company has a monopoly or is the owner of the most popular drug of the day, it's hard to say. They prescribe what's available, and often what's most talked about, I find. So often, drugs are trial and error for the patient, and they are not without side effects. Sometimes worse than the illness. Not a slag against any doctor in particular--but that's what happens in my experience. I'm not saying standard medicine is all bad either. There are great doctors and excellent much needed treatments and cures out there thanks to medical science. However, I would like to point out, how often do drugs come out and then get recalled or they find out years later that they actually weren't safe? Meanwhile, some natural forms of medicine are shunned, even though those using it and practicing it for years know it works. Also, if a study gets properly funded, sometimes the drug companies lay claim to things that natural practitioners have known for years. I think there needs to be more balance. There is a practice called "complimentary medicine (which the earlier mentioned doctor believes in) whereby traditionalconventional and natural forms are used in optimum combination, with proper knowledge. I think it should be covered.
The doctor I saw is an MD as well as a Homeopath (got his training in homeopathy in England. Not sure which training was first.) and I don't believe he was a quack. I believe he took the best of the knowledge he had of both forms.
chemgal
Posted on: 11/25/2012 13:20
I agree about all the swag. There's been a study that shows if a prescription is written with a pen advertising a drug that drug is more likely to be prescribed. The medical system does need improvement, but I don't see using unsupported methods such as homeopathy is going to help. It's going to create more problems, IMO.
Most new drugs do actually come from natural sources. I'm not against using a holistic approach when that's one that is scientifically supported like a proper diet, exercise, etc. Most doctors won't shun supporting that either.
ninjafaery
Posted on: 11/25/2012 16:43
Mendella said,"Trudeau isn't impressing me so far. Neither is Harper. Neither, to be honest, is Mulcair. At least with Harper, we aren't getting any surprises. He's pretty much delivering what anyone familiar with his politics would expect and he's had surprisingly few public scandals given that he's leading a Conservative government."
I find part of the problem is that Harper is full of surprises - most of them buried deep in omnibus bills or announced while he's out of the country. I admit I don't harbor much hope that change will come with the next election, but it's my opinion that this current gov't is dangerous to all but those with the highest incomes.
Someone close to me who has all their $ stashed away in offshore accounts (not paying his fair share of taxes), absolutely LOVES Harper's vision.
graeme
Posted on: 11/25/2012 17:19
I"m with mandella on all the major leaders and hopefuls. What the Liberals need immediately is not a leader, but a reason to exist.
Harper is very dangerous, much worse than corrupt. (In fact, he fronts for a business community that makes the mafia look public-spirited.) Nor is he running the econom as wisely as people think. The parilamentary budget officer (who is there as an independent auditor of public spending but who has been denied the essential documents by Harper) has a strong suspicion that our economy and debt are, in fact, unsustainable.
A good source to keep up on this sort of thing is rabble.ca I once worked with one of the writers for it, Karl Niremberg, who was a parilamentary reporter for the CBC. He's a first-rate journalist, and has a good,, current article on the budget officer and Harper's evasion of his legal responsibilities.
Judd
Posted on: 11/25/2012 22:57
I'm so old I remember when Calgary South voted Liberal. I was a young liberal then and Toronto was Stanley Cup champion.
This latest "insult" by Trudeau is a red herring thrown up by the Sun newspaper and the Conservatives. I have no doubt the good citizens of CowTown aren't Fooled.
The real insult was by his father in the mid-seventies - the phoney "oil crisis" where Trudeau threw in with the Arabs and embargoed exports of oil and natural gas to the U.S. Canada's economic relationship with the U.S. never fully recovered and it triggered a collapse in real estate values in the West.
Lies and insults by the Eastern press came on a daily basis. Many Albertans lost everything. Nobody ever admitted the lies, or that the "Energy Shortage" was a huge falsehood.
If Trudeau ever disclaimed the false energy shortage he would be viewed as a hero to Calgarians.
revjohn
Posted on: 11/26/2012 10:01
I liked Kinsella's take:
http://www.winnipegsun.com/2012/11/23/politician-opens-mouth-inserts-foo...
Jim Kenney
Posted on: 11/26/2012 10:12
Predictable response from readers of the Sun papers to his column. Watching other economic sectors struggle while the subsidized fossil fuel industry distorts labour, housing and the construction markets is a bit frustrating. In a few hours we will find out if the Liberals managed to beat the Conservative candidate in Calgary Centre.
graeme
Posted on: 11/26/2012 10:56
Alberta is now all excited about exporting oil to China, thus adding immensely to global warming. Are we supposed to cheer for that?
ninjafaery
Posted on: 11/26/2012 12:25
Thanks for the link RevJohn. Interesting to note that readers of "Sun" News don't appear to be very engaged. Certainly the posts by Sun fans aren't any worse than some posts on the CBC forum though.
There are very few responses to Sun articles as well. Compare the few comments there to the CBC forum where there are around 2500 (give or take) comments in response to this topic!
Having said that, I'm always pleasantly surprise when either right or left articles appear in the "wrong" paper. Sometimes the Star runs right -leaning opinion pieces & the National post prints the odd "leftish" one.
chemgal
Posted on: 11/26/2012 22:07
If it was just words I wouldn't be concerned. Judd has just pointed out one example where sentiments lead to bigger problems. It's not all about oil.
alta
Posted on: 11/27/2012 13:39
Alberta is now all excited about exporting oil to China, thus adding immensely to global warming. Are we supposed to cheer for that?
As, I suppose Ontarians are all excited about pillaging Alberta, adding immensely to global warming, and blaming "Alberta" for it.
Are we supposed to be excited about that?
Jim Kenney
Posted on: 11/27/2012 13:41
alta, long time, no see! I am glad you are still around.
alta
Posted on: 11/27/2012 14:20
Thanks Jim. Mostly just stick my head in the door from time to time. But now that the CFL season has ended....
graeme
Posted on: 11/27/2012 20:09
Oh, Judd, I wasn't defending Ontario or any other province. I'm just pointing out that industries have always and often harmfully dominated Canadian politics. I despise Harper not because he's from Alberta but because he's a self-righteous errand boy for big business. And right now, the biggest and most damaging businesses are those concerned with energy.
Here, in New Brunswick, we seem to have lots of shale gas. That has led to an orgy of media lying and general corruption.
Dcn. Jae
Posted on: 12/01/2012 12:34
Canada needs everyone involved. Albertans, British Columbians, Manitobians, Ontarians, New Brunswickans, Nova Scotians, Newfoundlanders, Quebecois, Prince Edward Islanders, peoples of the Northwest, Yukon, and Nunuvut Territories, Saskatchewanians, everybody.
GordW
Posted on: 12/01/2012 14:24
Canada needs everyone involved. Albertans, British Columbians, Manitobians, Ontarians, New Brunswickans, Nova Scotians, Newfoundlanders, Quebecois, Prince Edward Islanders, peoples of the Northwest, Yukon, and Nunuvut Territories, Saskatchewanians, everybody.
Even people from Toronto have a place (though maybe not your (former? depending on his appeal) mayor) ;)
Dcn. Jae
Posted on: 12/01/2012 15:24
Canada needs everyone involved. Albertans, British Columbians, Manitobians, Ontarians, New Brunswickans, Nova Scotians, Newfoundlanders, Quebecois, Prince Edward Islanders, peoples of the Northwest, Yukon, and Nunuvut Territories, Saskatchewanians, everybody.
Even people from Toronto have a place (though maybe not your (former? depending on his appeal) mayor) ;)
The judge just ruled a couple of days ago that if there's a bi-election called, Mr. Ford can run for election again. I've heard Toronto talking heads say that it would even be Ford's race to lose. Rob Ford may not be going any where.
graeme
Posted on: 12/02/2012 20:53
He's certainly not leading anywhere.
Of course, Albertans have a role in Candian politics. The danger is in any of them seeing that role as being a provincial one. When their focus in nation al affairs becomes a matter of provincial thinking, that is dangerous. What happens then is that the affairs of the nation become dominated by the interests of provincial elites who, through their control of the news media, are able to delude the population into thinking they have the same interests as, say, oil barons just because they all happen to be in the same province.
Alberta was a victim ofo that when Ontario and Quebec were the dominant provinces. In consequence, Albertans were born into a long tradition of distrust of Quebec and Ontario - when it was Ontario and Quebec that were abusing them; it was the business elites of montreal and toronto.
It is not the oil barons who have come to Alberta's rescue. it is the presence of the oil, itself. But Albertans have often allowed themselves to be used by the oil barons throught the pretence of the oil barons that "us Albertans is all in this together".
A prime example was the fierce reaction generated in Alberta when the federal government attempted to develop an oil policy - which included a petro-Canada. The existence of a government - owned petro-canada was no threat to most Albertans at all. Indeed, it would have benefitted them as much as any other Canadian.
But the oil barons and their media had no trouble in convincing Albertans that they were all just one, big, happy provincial family being hectored by those, evil Easterners.
I taught many an Albertan. It was common for them to act as thought they, being smart westerners and therefore genetically superior to the rest of us, had put the oil in the ground themselves. And they had fooled my evil but feeble eastern mind by doing it. (as If I and everybody else in montreal were key figures in the eastern plot to exploit Alberta.
The result is that the oil industry is allowed to run wild, and all of us, especially Alberta, are going to someday soon start paying one hell of a price for it.
Yes, Alberta should be in federal politics. But for its own good as well as ours, it should learn the difference between federal and provincial politics.