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chemgal

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Ford - Another Drunk Video

At this point does he not care enough to stay out of the spotlight while drunk?  Does he not have people around him who want him to at least avoid the circus if he isn't going to bother staying sober?

 

Go through the drive thru with your friends while drunk instead of loudly rambling in a restaurant.  If he was someone I cared about, I would have hoped there was some way to force some type of help well before this point.

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ninjafaery's picture

ninjafaery

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I think he was trying to drown his shame and sorrow over having the banquet burger and poutine, thus blowing his diet. He let his brother Doug down again. Seems Doug had no idea that Rob hadn't really quit the booze.

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revjohn

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Hi chemgal,

 

chemgal wrote:

At this point does he not care enough to stay out of the spotlight while drunk? 

 

No.

 

He has no reason to care either.  Ford Nation and to an extent his family,enables him not to need to.  As long as there is even a sliver of folk who will say with pride and pleasure, "He's just like us." his addiction has all the proof it needs to stay in the driver seat.

 

I am confident that anyone who has ever had a family member in the grip of an addiction heard anything new in Ford's response to reporter's inquiries.  The line, "What I do in my private life is my own business" reeks of addiction.

 

chemgal wrote:

Does he not have people around him who want him to at least avoid the circus if he isn't going to bother staying sober?

 

I'm sure he does. 

 

He also surrounds himself with people who feed his addiction.  And if you pit buzzkillers against enablers the enablers win more than their fair share simply because the enablers do not demand the addict to do the hard thing.

 

chemgal wrote:

Go through the drive thru with your friends while drunk instead of loudly rambling in a restaurant. 

 

Provided you aren't the one behind the wheel.  Ford claims that he wasn't driving.  That might be true.  Anyone have absolutely no doubt that he wasn't driving?  I don't.

 

chemgal wrote:

If he was someone I cared about, I would have hoped there was some way to force some type of help well before this point.

 

Even if he was someone you cared about there is no way for an individual to beat an addiction without asking for help.  Rob Ford denies having an addicition so there is no way he is going to ask for help.  Rob Ford's mother thinks it is all about his weight.  Rob Ford thinks he can stay off the sauce and hit the gym and that will prove he is not an addict.

 

Rob Ford is very much mistaken.

 

Even if we could abduct Mayor Ford, strap him to a table and force him to dry out that wouldn't be a cure.  At best it would be a reprieve.  As soon as he was able the addiction would be back in the driver seat and it would be having its way with him.

 

The tragedy is that only Rob Ford can help Rob Ford and right now Rob Ford is convinced and will lie through his teeth in the face of fact that he doesn't need help because he is not an addict.

 

This doesn't stop until he hits bottom and if we are all lucky nobody dies on his way down.

 

A second video was released last night which has him at a table somewhere with somebody who looks a lot like Sandro Lissi.

 

For Lissi that would be a violation of bail conditions.

 

For Ford there is no legal consequence, he isn't under a court order to stay away from Lissi, Lissi is under a court order to stay away from him.  If it is true (as many suspect) that Lissi supplied Mayor Ford with drugs then there is really only one reason why Ford would approach Lissi and it won't be because Lissi is a "good friend" unless we extend the definition of "good friend" to "my dealer."

 

And anybody who has a family member who is in the grip of an addiction would find nothing at all surprising about that.

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

waterfall's picture

waterfall

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It's hard to believe that everyone in city hall is so silent about this strange atmosphere that has descended upon Toronto.

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chansen

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What do you want them to say? They're living in an alternate universe and they've already denounced him and stripped him of what powers they can. Those councillors and the speaker who are in the mayor's pocket have outed themselves by voting in favour of an out-of-control individual to lead the largest city in Canada. The others can't really do any more than they already have. Demanding apologies gets you the same practiced apology that everyone has heard countless times.

 

All we can do is ride this out and somehow convince at least part of Ford Nation that they're being used by a family who don't really care about them and actually work against their best interests, despite the sound bites.

 

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waterfall

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If I was working under the same roof as a "boss"  that was corrupting the system of what I originally signed up for, I would give notice and leave and tell the "companies employers" (in this case the citizens of Toronto) why.

 

 

revjohn's picture

revjohn

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HI waterfall,

 

waterfall wrote:

It's hard to believe that everyone in city hall is so silent about this strange atmosphere that has descended upon Toronto.

 

They haven`t been silent.  They have pleaded with him to get help.  He denies having need of it.

 

They have stripped him of all but the minimum power of his office.  He initially was going to take legal action against the council because of that I suspect his Lawyer laughed at him for even suggesting it.

 

There is nothing anyone can do to force Rob Ford to help himself.

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

 

 

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revjohn

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Hi waterfall,

 

waterfall wrote:

If I was working under the same roof as a "boss"  that was corrupting the system of what I originally signed up for, I would give notice and leave and tell the "companies employers" (in this case the citizens of Toronto) why.

 

Rob Ford is Mayor of Toronto.  He is not the boss of council.  For a while he had the ability to shape the executive and he was willing to abuse that power so it is one that the council stripped from him.

 

Rob Ford cannot fire any of the councillors in fact each of them were duly elected just as he was.

 

Quitting the council isn`t going to change anything other than the make-up of council.  Rob Ford has the power to be an embarrassment which is probably more power than any in Toronto wish he had.

 

The next election tells us whether or not Torontonians want to keep him around or whether he goes back to the Label shop.

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

chansen's picture

chansen

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waterfall wrote:

If I was working under the same roof as a "boss"  that was corrupting the system of what I originally signed up for, I would give notice and leave and tell the "companies employers" (in this case the citizens of Toronto) why.

That's the completely wrong approach. Assuming you're not the one with the problems, resigning only hurts your constituents and means one less person to oppose Rob Ford on council.

 

Also, the mayor is not your boss. He can't just get rid of you. Resigning in protest for having to work with an oaf helps the oaf. There is no one left to "wake up". Everybody knows. They're just powerless to do anything about it.

 

Edit: Sorry, John. I didn't realize you wrote pretty much the same thing as I did. Somebody should resign over this.

 

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Alex

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chemgal wrote:

At this point does he not care enough to stay out of the spotlight while drunk?  Does he not have people around him who want him to at least avoid the circus if he isn't going to bother staying sober?

 

Go through the drive thru with your friends while drunk instead of loudly rambling in a restaurant.  If he was someone I cared about, I would have hoped there was some way to force some type of help well before this point.

 

What in the world gave you the idea he was drunk. It seems to me he was stoned on something. The second video taken earlier in the evening where he is sitting quietly with his supposed drug dealer Lisi, and his speech plus his behaviour would indicate downers of some sort, likely mixed with other drugs.

 

 

chansen's picture

chansen

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Alex wrote:

chemgal wrote:

At this point does he not care enough to stay out of the spotlight while drunk?  Does he not have people around him who want him to at least avoid the circus if he isn't going to bother staying sober?

 

Go through the drive thru with your friends while drunk instead of loudly rambling in a restaurant.  If he was someone I cared about, I would have hoped there was some way to force some type of help well before this point.

What in the world gave you the idea he was drunk. It seems to me he was stoned on something. The second video taken earlier in the evening where he is sitting quietly with his supposed drug dealer Lisi, and his speech plus his behaviour would indicate downers of some sort, likely mixed with other drugs.

It wouldn't surprise me, or most anybody else. I just lack experience to make any sort of call here. Do downers make you try on bad accents?

 

chemgal's picture

chemgal

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RevJohn, I agree with most of your first post.  At this point I guess I'm just bewildered that Ford is surrournded by people who are enabling him and his actions, especially in public and that he was able to become mayor.

 

I expect this behaviour from teens given too much money and too much power like you see with some child stars.

 

A politician having an addiction problem isn't surprising.  Ford's particular issues moreso, as I've mentioned before crack as the drug for a mayor is something I find really odd.  Throw in the people around him who are allowing his antics to go on publically instead of either openly trying to get him help or quietly getting him somewhere private where he can act out away from the public eye.

 

I would only expect someone like Ford to be elected if he had a circle that tried to hide his problems.  I don't think it would be a better situation if that was the case, but it would be less baffling to me as to how he got where he did.

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chemgal

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Alex, that's true.  I would say that alcohol was likely a factor this time.  I've never really paid a great deal of attention as to people's behaviours based on the specific illegal drug they've taken to comment beyond that :)

waterfall's picture

waterfall

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I see your point Chansen and Revjohn....they have obviously been taking notes from previous Popes.

SG's picture

SG

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Who cares what an addict was/is using or abusing?
He has used/abused various substances, some legal and some illegal. What he was on doesn't even begin to matter.

redhead's picture

redhead

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I suspect that many medical professionals caring for people dealing with the disease would agree that unless Ford wants to quit, forcing him into rehab will not work.  Yes, he may be sober for a few weeks or months, depending on the length of the program.  And relapse issues are also anticipated and expected as a person struggles to stay clean and work through a myriad of other health and wellness issues.

 

That said, I think the evidence is fairly clear:  Ford should not be in office. 

 

But if Ford does take a leave of absence, Jimmy Kimmel is going to have to work a little harder on his monolgues :)

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revjohn

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Hi chemgal,

 

chemgal wrote:

RevJohn, I agree with most of your first post.  At this point I guess I'm just bewildered that Ford is surrournded by people who are enabling him and his actions, especially in public and that he was able to become mayor.

 

The whole Ford family (at least those who have spoken publicly) are in serious denial about the problem or they are habituated to lying about it.  Those with any kind of clue about the reality of the situation find themselves shut out.

 

Why?

 

Because that is what an addict will do if they have the power.  I hired you and now you tell me I need to go get help.  Guess what?  Now I'm firing you. 

 

chemgal wrote:

I expect this behaviour from teens given too much money and too much power like you see with some child stars.

 

His behaviour stems from the fact that he is an addict and an addict will do anything not to lose what they are hooked on.  At least in part.  There are some other deficiets at play.

 

chemgal wrote:

Throw in the people around him who are allowing his antics to go on publically instead of either openly trying to get him help or quietly getting him somewhere private where he can act out away from the public eye.

 

Again, this is so because he surrounds himself with folk who will not say no to him.  Staff that have said no to him very quickly become ex-staff.  His "firiends" are the ones who video him and then try to sell it to the media.  They are his friends because they don't tell him to sober up and get help.

 

chemgal wrote:

I would only expect someone like Ford to be elected if he had a circle that tried to hide his problems.  I don't think it would be a better situation if that was the case, but it would be less baffling to me as to how he got where he did.

 

He knew the right buzzwords and people believed the buzzwords.  They still chant the buzzwords.

 

It doesn't matter if there is any truth to the buzzwords or not.  Such is the partisan climate of politics. 

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

 

 

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stardust

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 I'm posting info. from the Nat. Post about the interpretation of his  Jamaican rant.

 

I think K. Wynne said she could pass a law or change the laws so he can be removed from office? This is what needs to happen. No way should this man be in office until election time. Enough is enough....

 

Quote from the Nat. Post:

 

Approximate transcript of Mr. Ford’s exchange with an unknown citizen, along with explanations.

 

FORD: C**ksuckers. Fuckin’ Chief Blair and them all. Cha, man. They chase me around for five months, man. Bumbaclot man. I said, me and him, ya raasclat bumbaclot.

 

 

In this opening diatribe against Toronto Police Chief Bill Blair, Mr. Ford uses no less than three expressions common to Jamaica, but virtually unknown among Canadian-born English speakers. The first, “cha,” is a disdainful expletive, the Caribbean equivalent of “bah!”

 

 

The other two are more obscene, what our Jamaican translator called “indecent language.” The first, “raasclat,” is a deeply offensive term that refers to a rag used to wipe one’s buttocks after defecation. As slang lexographer Jonathan Green explained in a 2011 online post, “raas by itself means the buttocks, and by extension the whole person.”

 

 

The second, “bumbaclot,” is said to be Jamaican equivalent of “f*ck” or Quebec’s “tabernac.” The word also refers to a rag, but usually one used to absorb menstrual blood. Most notably, it is mentioned in the song “Oh Bumbo Klaat” on the 1981 Peter Tosh album Wanted Dread and Alive.

 

 

FORD Leave me alone, man. They got five months man, and then trying to tell me ‘well, we’re counter-surveilling the guy.’ You know what I mean? He’s hiding here, I’m’a hide here. I’m’a—oh, we don’t—f*ck off.

 

 

Here, Mr. Ford is recounting a five month period in 2013 when he was under police surveillance in connection with a much larger “guns and gangs” probe by the Toronto Police. Ultimately, it was via this probe that Toronto Police Chief Bill Blair was able to confirm the existence of a video purporting to show Mr. Ford smoking crack cocaine, indirectly leading to the November city council vote that stripped Mr. Ford of most of his mayoral powers.

 

 

FORD: You know how much money that costs, man? I said bro, just cut something, ‘no man, no money man.’ Cha. Ah, Bumbaclot, man. I said ‘you know what? You raasclat, bumbaclot. I swear to God, man, honestly man. Serious shit, man. Serious shit, bro.

 

 

Mr. Ford appears to be reiterating his previous claim that the Toronto Police only put him under surveillance due to a personal vendetta sparked by Mr. Ford’s calls for the department to cut its budget. As he said in a December interview, “I want to save money and I guess [Chief Blair] disagrees with that.” The mayor also spices up his language with four more uses of Jamaican English. It is worth noting that this is the first time Mr. Ford has ever been seen to inject his public speech with Jamaican expressions, or even exhibit any knowledge of Jamaican English.

 

 

FORD SPEAKING ALONE: Who goes into THC? Who’s going into Jamestown, Jane and Finch and then Malvern on the—them fucks—you know what I see, manbro? Shit like …

 

 

In a textbook Freudian slip, Mr. Ford says he “goes into THC.” THC, of course, is the active ingredient in marijuana. More likely, however, Mr. Ford is referring to TCH, Toronto Community Housing. Mr. Ford has frequently portrayed himself as a “hands-on” chief executive, and this sentiment was on full display last September when he publicly toured a TCH-owned building to listen to complaints from residents.

 

 

The mayor also appears to be playing up his everyman reputation by mentioning Jamestown, Jane and Finch and Malvern, all of them low-income, high-crime Toronto areas.

 

 

http://news.nationalpost.com/2014/01/21/rob-fords-drunken-jamaican-english-laced-rant-translated/

 

 

Councillor Michael Thompson, who is of Jamaican descent and is the only black member of council, said Ford’s behaviour and comments were “offensive.” Thompson, a former ally of Ford’s, said the mayor was not fit for office and called for him to step down.

 

 

Councillor Gary Crawford said he was “appalled” by the behaviour and suggested that those closest to him are enabling it.

 

 

Alex's picture

Alex

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SG wrote:
Who cares what an addict was/is using or abusing? He has used/abused various substances, some legal and some illegal. What he was on doesn't even begin to matter.

 

Actually the law cares.One of the few ways A mayor  can be removed from office in Ontario is being convicted of a criminal offense.  So if he is  using street drugs, or illegally obtaining prescrition drugs, he can be arressted and convicted and removed from office.

 

 

All I know is that something is wrong with the world when Justin Beieber is in jail, while Rob Ford goes free. cheeky

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lastpointe

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Alex, if Ford was street racing and driving drunk When pulled over and under the drinking age, I suspect he would be arrested too.

He is a sad case. Has major issues and yet.....

His popularity continues to rise.

The media is unable to get ordinary Torontonians to care that he isn't what he says he is.

He successfully portrays himself as an ordinary Joe.

His message, that only he watches the pennies, is successful.

The whole thing is amazing.

Inreality, the way he is jumped on for boorish , drunk behaviour , by all the media, helps his cause. He is sooooo able to say "see , I am like so many of you ordinary guys. I have troubles, I try, I fail, but I am being picked on". The entire story plays in his favour.

The media would be better off to totally ignore him. No press coverage. Focus on the deputy mayor and sideline him.

Stop giving him free advertising for his reelection campaign.

And the rest of Canada should ignore him too. The only people who should care are the toronto voters. The national hand wringing over the mayor of "Canada's biggest city" just feeds his issues.

I would dearly love for a week to go by with no news feeds about Rob or Doug ford.

Beloved's picture

Beloved

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I don't know what is going on in this whole situation, and with Ford, but I think there is more to it than what meets the eye.  I don't know what . . . but something ????

 

 

 

Alex's picture

Alex

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lastpointe wrote:
His popularity continues to rise. .
 

 

Do you have a reference for this, or is it  based on what people are saying in your community.

 

Being from Ottawa I have no idea what evryday people in Toronto are saying (I only know Toronto residents   who already oppose him for policy reasons)ANd I see that the Toronto Suyn a traditional Ford supporter has repeatedly called for him to resign.

 

 

Alex's picture

Alex

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lastpointe wrote:
Alex, if Ford was street racing and driving drunk When pulled over and under the drinking age, I suspect he would be arrested too. .

 

I was being cheeky about Bieber and Ford. Howevr if one is serious about, I would say it is more likely that Florida cops enforce traffic laws more seriously, since both Ford and Bieber have only been arressted in Florida for drunk driving.

 

 

 

 

ninjafaery's picture

ninjafaery

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lastpointe wrote:
Alex, if Ford was street racing and driving drunk When pulled over and under the drinking age, I suspect he would be arrested too. He is a sad case. Has major issues and yet..... His popularity continues to rise. The media is unable to get ordinary Torontonians to care that he isn't what he says he is. He successfully portrays himself as an ordinary Joe. His message, that only he watches the pennies, is successful. The whole thing is amazing. Inreality, the way he is jumped on for boorish , drunk behaviour , by all the media, helps his cause. He is sooooo able to say "see , I am like so many of you ordinary guys. I have troubles, I try, I fail, but I am being picked on". The entire story plays in his favour. The media would be better off to totally ignore him. No press coverage. Focus on the deputy mayor and sideline him. Stop giving him free advertising for his reelection campaign. And the rest of Canada should ignore him too. The only people who should care are the toronto voters. The national hand wringing over the mayor of "Canada's biggest city" just feeds his issues. I would dearly love for a week to go by with no news feeds about Rob or Doug ford.

 

yes Agree with it all The more it seems he flaunts his "victimhood", the more rabid his fans get in defending him. The "media" has become the big, bad bully. He has painted himself as the people's hero and could still at this point win the next mayoral election. Wouldn't surprise me at this point. 

I wonder if he killed someone and ended in up in prison, the voters would want him to run the city from jail while they pay for all his appeals and costs out of their own pockets...

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ninjafaery

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*double post*

lastpointe's picture

lastpointe

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Re hhis popularity

A poll done last night showed up to 44% or some such crazy number. On the local news

Saul_now_Paul's picture

Saul_now_Paul

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As an outsider...

 

The Rob Ford show is not nearly as fun as the show put on by everybody who hates him.

 

He's an out of control addict - off with his head!!!

 

Can you not show where it has affected his ability to work? No, it has affected everybody elses ability to work.

 

He seems to show up for work sane and sober.

 

Is having an addictive personality grounds for dismissal? About one in 20 people are alcohol dependant. Should they all be fired. What about smokers, gamblers.

 

I have seen hundreds of people in states similar to the state Rob Ford seem to keep getting recorded in. Should they all be fired and sent to the soup line?

 

Should everybody who has been seen or admitted illegal drug use be sent packing?

 

No, it's just fat oafish conservatives that should be fired, becuase they make YOU look bad.

 

I find it very entertaining.

SG's picture

SG

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Alex,

I would hope law enforcement is more concerned about the law than removing him from office.

They may care about the video showing a meeting that appears to be with Sandro Lisi. That has repercussions to Lisi due to conditions of release and not Mr. Ford.

Why would the law care what Ford is high on in a Steak Queen apart from trying to follow it as a lead? Nobody called the law that he was under the influence, creating a disturbance, etc.

Even if the police have reason to believe the meeting was prior and Ford was on another substance one cannot legally connect those dots simply by observing a video. Even if they believed they could, the law requires something called proof.

A citizen, yes Mr. Ford is that, can be under the influence of an unknown substance making an ass of themselves in a video on YouTube and no charges result from it. A citizen could have a very long and sorrid recorded past with illegal drugs and a video of this type still proves nothing. It could be the effect of legal drugs (alcohol) legally obtained drugs (prescription), or illegal drugs ( not legal under any circumstance of those sold illegally as in withput a prescription)

RitaTG's picture

RitaTG

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Saul_now_Paul ..... I disagree with your assertion that Rob's ability to work has not been affected.     I do not feel that he was nor is he now doing his job responsibly.

Also, he has affected the ability of his coworkers on council and city staff to do their jobs because he does not effectively do his.    This is all directly related to his lifestyle and attitude.

Anyone that exhibits behaviour such as his ... and by that I mean on the job .... would be suspended or fired.

I am a firm believer in rehabilitation but when there is no desire to engage in that process then it is time to part ways.

Arguments such as yours that swerve the car recklessly into the ditch of extreme position are not helpful at all in driving a path forward.

Regards

Rita

Alex's picture

Alex

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SG wrote:
Alex, I would hope law enforcement is more concerned about the law than removing him from office.)

 

That is a false dichotomy. If he breaks the law and convicted he is automatically removed from office.  

 

 

Alex's picture

Alex

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SG wrote:
Nobody called the law that he was under the influence, creating a disturbance, etc. Even if the police have reason to believe the meeting was prior and Ford was on another substance one cannot legally connect those dots simply by observing a video. )

 

 It is a police concern if someone is carrying illegal drugs, that is how Ford has admitted to breaking the law in the past, and unless he allowed someone to insert  drugs orally or as a suppositiory it is likely how he broke the law again earlier this week.

 

 

Besides it is irrelevant as to public interest if the police can not prove he was carrying drugs in court, .

 

You can not be removed from office for acting foolishly or being drunk, but you can be for carrying street drugs or some prescription drugs with out a prescription.

 

 

SG's picture

SG

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Alex,

Even carrying requires just cause to search and seize. You cannot just know someone uses and go frisk them.

If someone calls police while someone appears to be under the influence it is far different than "look at this, they were yesterday or the day before".

I do not use terms like "street drugs" because it implies where they are bought matters most.

As someone who loves an addict, trust me, even when you want police involvement, it is not that easy as "bust them".

Almost any addict with a dollar or two can garner a prescription for prescription drugs. They can abuse that prescription and take more. They can smoke it, snort it, shove it, shoot it... Some doctors are duped and some "dealers" are also doctors.

Laws have not allowed some addicts to be arrested. They however are to protect citizens.

SG's picture

SG

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JFK was addicted to pain medication. How many PM have been alcoholics?

The stigma is that addiction is a character flaw.

Another stigma is that they cannot be competent and productive.

The brown bag alcoholic is far less common than the well dressed alcoholic. An alcoholic can be a business owner, teacher, corporate executive, doctor, nurse, school teacher, soccer mom...The same is true of drug addiction.

Some are very high functioning. Others are not.

Mr. Ford and a dislike of his politics or personality should not govern thoughts on addiction or the way the legal system should work.

Alex's picture

Alex

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SG wrote:
Alex, Even carrying requires just cause to search and seize. You cannot just know someone uses and go frisk them. If someone calls police while someone appears to be under the influence it is far different than "look at this, they were yesterday or the day before". I do not use terms like "street drugs" because it implies where they are bought matters most. As someone who loves an addict, trust me, even when you want police involvement, it is not that easy as "bust them". Almost any addict with a dollar or two can garner a prescription for prescription drugs. They can abuse that prescription and take more. They can smoke it, snort it, shove it, shoot it... Some doctors are duped and some "dealers" are also doctors. Laws have not allowed some addicts to be arrested. They however are to protect citizens.

 

SG wrote:
Who cares what an addict was/is using or abusing? He has used/abused various substances, some legal and some illegal. What he was on doesn't even begin to matter.

 

You are confusing what I said with what others think or say.  I am just aying that there is a difference politically and legally between alchool, street drugs, and perscribed drugs.  That may be irrelvant to the addict or the family and friends of addicts, but it is not a political or legal reality.

crazyheart's picture

crazyheart

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It is 12 noon here and in Toronto they have been waiting for Rob Ford to show up to give a speech. They haven,t been served dinner and he hasn't shown up. What next? (National News)

 

Alex's picture

Alex

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crazyheart wrote:

. What next? (National News)

 

SG's picture

SG

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Alex,
You seemed to be trying to say it is more likely drugs than alcohol. It is not something that can be determined. That there is a difference politically and legally is not really accurate. If Mr. Ford was hopped on amphetamines, on barbituates, oxy.....what matters legally is not what they are but whether they are prescribed or not. Politically, maybe and maybe not. It doesn't matter legally if he is abusing that prescription as long as he has one. He could be snorting or shooting what was prescribed as an oral tablet without it nattering legally. I can bet it might politically.

The law is to apply equally to all citizens.

The laws that annoy us also protect us.

What exactly are you calling "street drugs"? Crack, pot...? Or are oxys and lorazepam also "street drugs" without a prescription? Are they not "street drugs" if you have a doctor as a dealer? Drugs are rightly classified by content and their legal or illegal acquisition not where they were bought.

Alex's picture

Alex

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For my purposes, Street drugs= drugs that are not avaialable by prescription in Canada. Thus one can only get them on the "street"  

 

Prescription drugs can be obtained at a pharmacy, and they may be obtained in legal or illegal ways.

 

 

Ford has only admitted to being a user of street drugs. Howevr his staff told the police that he also uses oxycondin.

 

SG's picture

SG

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See, Alex, this is my point. Almost anything you can get on the street you can also get at a doctor's. Cocaine is Schedule I. You do know you can get a prescription for any and all drugs Ford had used? Yep, cocaine can be prescribed in Canada.

revjohn's picture

revjohn

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Hi stardust,

 

stardust wrote:

I think K. Wynne said she could pass a law or change the laws so he can be removed from office? This is what needs to happen. No way should this man be in office until election time. Enough is enough....

 

I'm sure that Premier Wynne does not have such power herself.  I expect that the government of Ontario might.  I also suspect that the parties in opposition would be sympathetic to some improvements to legislation.

 

I am also convinced that taking action because of one individual is poor governance and if all three parties got together to draft a "Rob Ford" clause it would demonstrate just how out of touch all three parties are with the reality that Ontario finds itself in.

 

Toronto City Council has already stripped Mayor Ford of his powers.  If they wish to they could censure him.  I have seen other municipalities (at least one) muzzle their Mayor.  I'm confident Toronto City Council could take similar action.

 

Premier Wynne, Mr. Hudak and Ms Horwath need to pay more attention to matters which concern the province of Ontario and not one high-profile addict in TO.  That is not what the Ontario voters sent them and every other MPP to Queen's Park to fix.

 

Legislation is already in place which can be used to remove elected officials in certain circumstances.  If there is a need to broaden that legislation because of regular offences committed by a significant number of elected officials then do it.  If the only need is our own aversion to the public intoxication of one drunk then there are other avenues to take.

 

Frankly, take the office of Mayor away from Rob Ford and he doesn't cease to be an addict nor will he cease to be embarrasing nor will he cease to be a "story."

 

To be blunt he isn't the Province of Ontario's problem to deal with.  He is the City of Toronto's headache.

 

With respect to Rob Ford's "conservatism."  I don't see any.  The only thing Mayor Ford appears to conserve is a willingness to speak truthfully.  He is quite, uh, liberal with sketchy facts and out right fabrications.

 

Mayor Ford promised in the fall that this years race to the Mayor's chair would be bloody.  What nobody suspected is that the blood would be all his and he would be the one skewereing himself.

 

It is tragedy because the only one with the power to bring it all to an end is the one least inclined or able to end it.

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

 

 

 

Alex's picture

Alex

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SG wrote:
See, Alex, this is my point. Almost anything you can get on the street you can also get at a doctor's. .

 

Now you are just repeating a lie, common among users.    

 

Yes you can get ritilan, but that is not the same as cyrstal meth. Yes you can get oxy, but that is not heroin, and so on.  They may have the same effects as legal drugs, but they are different drugs.

 

 

Crack is a form  of cocaine that is not or has ever been avaiable in pharmacies. And  like many drugs that were used historically,  cocaine is no longer manufactored or imported legally.    Thus it is not available in pharmacies. Likewise heroin, and crystal meth and many other street drugs are not avaiable in pharmacies.

 

    

waterfall's picture

waterfall

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crazyheart wrote:

It is 12 noon here and in Toronto they have been waiting for Rob Ford to show up to give a speech. They haven,t been served dinner and he hasn't shown up. What next? (National News)

 

 

He was stuck in a service elevater.

 

SG's picture

SG

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Alex,

First, do you realize the implications of saying I am repeating a lie "common among users"? Is that your intent?

Second, drugs are classified the way they are Schedule I, Schedule II, etc. They are NOT categorized as "street" and pharmacy. That is for a reason.

The effects and chemicals are common. Thus someone may be prescribed A and when not able to get a prescription for A seek one for B or buy A or B illegally.

If someone is addicted to opiates there are many drugs to seek to get that "fix". If someone cannot get an Oxy a Demerol might cut it.Need a valium, a lorazapam might work.

People do not usually just wind up on a corner seeking a Hydromorphone. They would a) not know where to find one, b) not know the effects, c) worry about getting caught...

You want to talk about Rob Ford, mayor. You want to talk about crack.

I want to talk about addicts and addiction and it makes no difference the occupation, class, race.... It could be robotussin, gravol, meth, crack, Oxys, T3's, robaxacet, rye, wine, rubbing alcohol, perfume, mouthwash, gas, spray paint....

You want to talk law how you want it to work.
I am talking about the law as written.

revjohn's picture

revjohn

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Hi SG,

 

SG wrote:

Who cares what an addict was/is using or abusing? He has used/abused various substances, some legal and some illegal. What he was on doesn't even begin to matter.

 

I agree with this.

 

The problem is the addiction and not the substance addicted to.

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

lastpointe's picture

lastpointe

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I agree. And I think we need to be careful at jumping to any conclusions.

He admitted he had been drinking "a bit". Perhaps, perhaps not. Perhaps in conjunction with something. Maybe not. There is no evidence to support that other than what he has admitted. And drinking a bit is not a rare thing

Other issues medically can make a person appear intoxicated and some of those conditions would be possible for someone of his physical condition.

Just ask any diabetic who has been suspected of drinking when they are slurring with a low blood sugar.

The man has issues. So do many people.

Because of the massive focus on him people jump to support him. It is quite amazing to see.

Even the video, showing him hanging around with a young man, At diner, speaking Jamaican slangs. Who would have thought a rich white boy raised in the suburbs could do that. It's no wonder he is popular.

He is excellent at presenting the ordinary guy image.

And how many ordinary guys sat down last night with their personal demon in a bottle or pill and thought he was just like them

SG's picture

SG

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Also, when someone has abstained and returns to use tolerance is not the same.
I have also been around those who have not used in days who one would swear has been using that day due to their liver not working as it once did.

Alex's picture

Alex

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SG wrote:
Alex, First, do you realize the implications of saying I am repeating a lie "common among users"? Is that your intent?.

 

What I am saying is that the idea  that cocaine is prescribed by doctors today in Canada is a a lie, it is akin to an urban legend,   Being a Scedule 1 drug means some people  can get up to 7 years in jail for possession, unless you have a prescription. And since it is not avaialble by prescription it is always illegal.  Which is one of the ways it is diffent from alchool.  So the person who told you that doctors proscibe cocaine, lied to you, or they heard it from someone who lied to them. Even if the person who told you is being honest, they are repreating a lie, even if unwittingly.

 

As someone in  the HIV/AIDS movement and a supporter of groups who fight for harm reduction policies . I support an approach that legalise all  drugs. And like many docotrs, and grassroots groups support allowing doctors to proscribe current street drugs like heroin and cocaine.   They are not able to now, and the Conservative Party is fightiing them on this issue. (including the Ford Family)

 

If these drugs could be proscribed right now, why are we spending money to support court cases to do so?  Why are doctors calling the gvt to allow them to do so?  

 

Look at the struggles doctors in Vancouver  has had with the Conservative government in order to maintain a very small clinical trial  that provides heroin to addicts. 

 

So while Rob Ford admits to using crack cocaine he fights to prevent the ability of docotors in Toronto to help low income addicts by allowoing them safe injection sites, and the ability to give addicts proscritions for drugs that are currently on;y avaialble on the street.

Alex's picture

Alex

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lastpointe wrote:
I agree. And I think we need to be careful at jumping to any conclusions. He admitted he had been drinking "a bit". Perhaps, perhaps not.

 

Perhaps not. I mean honestly, if this was any other heavy drug user, who had a loing history of lieing to you and their families about their drug use  , would you believe him?

 

 

lastpointe's picture

lastpointe

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I don't know how I would react, but I also don't know if he is someone with , as you suggest , a long history of heavy drug use.
.

I don't know him personally and have no information to support that claim. Do you?
.

I can only see what has been suggested by the police. Nothing proved in court and I am not ever convinced by just the police.

If it was that straightforward we would have no need for lawyers and trials. Just let police investigate, charge and then convict
.

I see a person who admits to some drug and alcohol issues. I suspect substantial alcohol use related to his use of "one of my drunken stupors". That certainly implies more than once he was drunk.
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He is a cagey politician. He can distorts the facts to support his agenda. Of course, so can most politicians.
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But, for someone who doesn't live here in toronto, you seem terribly invested in his issues.
.

That country wide dismissal of him by the press and the public is what encourages him and his voters.

I wish the press would ignore him and stop feeding the fire

lastpointe's picture

lastpointe

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And yes SG. I agree.

We usually have no alcohol for lent or perhaps advent. When it is over, I find one glass of wine can quite affect me

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