A lot of people are going to die next year. Harper has so publicly committed us to the killing that many Canadian servicemen may be among the dead. Then, on Nov. 11 a year from now, the usual hypocrites can stand up and give speeches about those brave service men and women who died, just like those in Afghanistan, to preserve Canadian freedom.

I taught a course in military history every year. I had some very find students from the militia. Many went on to be full-time officers.  I was struck by their pride in the military, and their high sense of honour.

I'm ashamed to belong to a country that has used them so badly and for such disgusting purposes.

Hi graeme,

Well, Stephen Harper's Canada is prone to do stupid things and it tends to back that stupidity up with reasoning that is best qualified as stupid.  So, I would think that this particularly puzzling bit of action is more of the same.

Does it mean war is coming?

I seriously doubt it.  Canadians were very opposed to going into Iraq.  I doubt war with Iran is something that Canadians want.  Should Stephen Harper's Canada decide that it is going to war with Iran I would suspect that after the next election the only talk of Stephen Harper's Canada would be undertaken by history buffs and those nostalgic for such lunacy.

Grace and peace to you.

John

John, I think the issue right now is not so much Canada going to war with Iran (I agree that's doubtful for a lot of reasons.) I think the main concern is that Harper has a pretty close relationship with Netanyahu and Canada is becoming widely perceived as perhaps Israel's closest friend right now. So the question may be: does Harper know something? And is he getting Canada out of Iran before that something happens? Who knows?

It's certainly quite possible he knows something is going to happen.

I know that Netanyahu is furious with Obama, and has expressed his delight at harper's stand.

I wish I could believe that Harper is backing away from getting involved in a war that is certainly coming. But his position now makes it almost impossible to back away - especially if this expands into a much bigger war - as it may well do.

He may overcome Canadian reluctance by committing ships - or even aircraft where the risk is minimal. But wars can be tough things to limit.

Canadians weren't crazy about Afghanistan, either. We still were slid into it.

We must also take into account how a Israeli Iranian was would affect the US election.

Is Israel more likely to bomb Iran if they believ it would help defeat Obama. regardless of what we think of Obama, it has become clear that Netanyahu supports the Republican, 

Harper by doing this, means that it a war starts, Republicans can point to Canada to show that they and Netanyahu are moderates. 

Harper if anything likes to promote the same agenda as the US and Netanyahu .  After all why else would we need to spend all that money on bombers.

The notional; reason is that Iranian agents might target dissident Iranian expatriates now happily ensconced in Canada, land of the free and good. As asylum seekers don't qualify for unlimited medical care, the consequences could be dire. It's easier (for Mr Harper) to show compassion by slamming a few diplomatic doors. This move could prevent a bloodbath in Toronto (um, the Eaton Centre excepted maybe(… something like that.

Hi Rev. Steven Davis,

Time will tell.  

My money is still riding on stupidity.

Grace and peace to you.

John

I don't care much for Stephen Harper, but I certainly don't think he's stupid. 

He wouldn't have had to do that if the UCC hadn't given the world the false impression that Canada hates Israel.

If the choice is having someone on the inside in Iran or Israel, Harper made the right choice.

And now patriots like me have to buy everybody on my Christmas list pop machines from Israel, far more than I would usually spend.

Hi Rev. Steven Davis,

Not universally no.

Situationally stupid, without a doubt.  In that respect he is no different than the rest of us.  All of us are functional with occasional moments of brilliance and matching moments of supreme awkwardness.

Prime Minister Harper, is but one man on the Conservative team.  Not every Minister in the Cabinet is exceedingly bright.  Harper is the one who put them there.  We can argue that he is making the best of a lousy situation with some choices.  That doesn't make them wise.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Any word from the opposition about this "brilliant" manuever?

Ah, well there is a clip. Paul Dewar doesn't say much either though.

http://www.cbc.ca/player/News/Canada/ID/2277123566/

Does anyone know anything about the government of Canada's history of closing embassies elsewhere? I read the Iranian embassy was closed for several years after 1979. Other than that have we closed others in the past 50 years?

I think they did this because noone pays much attention to what Canada has to say about international affairs normally. We're usually just part of the scenery.  It was a muscle flexing exercise. A testosterone fueled move, maybe inspired by Putin's hang gliding in a crane costume stunt? Harper and Baird want to be in the big boys club.

I think the people this decision will hurt  most are Iranian Canadians. It will not even create a blip of change to the Iranian regime. It just annoys them for the sake of annoying them, just so Canada can get noticed in the fray. Remember when, if we were known for anything, it was as humanitarians?

Stiuationally stupid might do it. Harper isn't universally stupid. But he is an ideologue -and that sort of thinking can well pass for stupidity.

But he must have known of the row between Obama and Nethanyahu over Iran. And he must have noticed that obama is facing an election. And even Baird must have the wit to realize this hurts obama.

What worries me more is that if a war breaks out, it is likely to become dangerously widespread and, having taken the position he has, it's hard to see how Harper can escape committing us to it. And, having said what he did about iran, I don't think he can get away with just sending the medics.

I have a feeling, I actually worry, that Obama's position on how to handle Iran doesn't differ much from Romney's, even though Obama is portrayed to have a less than favourable relationship with Netanyahu. When it comes to the Israel Iran situation, I don't think Obama's stance is any less "tough", I think the big difference is on social issues and how to handle the economy, and for those reason, if I were Amercian, I would prefer him to the alternative...but...I think Obama is just playing the Iran situation differently because he is the incumbent, and a new war  right at the moment, with the economy what it is, complicates the election too much for the voting base who is further to the left than he is. I don't think Obama is a peacenick,  he hasn't shown himself to be. I wonder if that is all because of congress blocking him or not... but there is a significant portion of his voting base who is--and when it comes to social issues he is more in line with them perhaps. So out of the two of them I would prefer to see him again I guess. Cautiously.  But there is no "safe choice" for certain.  And I think our government is most closely in line with republican views on social issues and the economy and the environment, and foreign policy. They are just slightly more quiet about how they present their views than the US republicans.

I  hope Rocky Anderson, independent, wins in 2016 (check him out). He got into the election race too late to gain traction--Ron Paul was already going strong--he and Ron Paul are aligned on some issues, but on social policy they differ a great deal.

At least it's guaranteed to be KOSHER pop.

I don't think that Stephen Harper, who has very strong Party discipline over Cabinet and backbenchers both, pulled diplomats out of Tehran for any other reason other than to draw attention to his government and the "Evil Empire". The diplomatic convention of withdrawing diplomatic relations because Iran "was unable to guarantee their safety" was an extremely small and transparently tacked on addition to Mr. Baird's speech about how generally bad Iran is, and how it is the "most significant threat to global peace and security in the world today". It's hard to see how that can be when it's never in modern memory (yes, we know Persia was a brutal conqueror) fought a war of aggression, and it's surrounded by the most heavily-armed armies on the planet, the USA and Israel. OK, China and Russia aren't there, but they're the lesser chunk of the military weight of the planet.

Has Harper talked with President Obama about this? Although the Republicans are the favourite of the Israel lobby in the US, Israel knows that its interests are safe with whomever wins the Presidency, as has been shown in the actions, as opposed to the speech, of the US President. Some of the things that Obama has said have been stern, like demanding that Israel negotiate with the Palestinian people from the 1967 truce lines, but he never has pushed them to do so, by holding back any aid, or failing in any way to back Israel fully with vetos or votes in any UN body which the United States has been a member.

God forbid that Canada should actually engage in diplomacy, as we hoped that Obama would do when he was elected. All we have seen in the 21st Century is Canadian troops killing, dying, and turning over prisoners to be tortured in foreign prisons, and Americans flying and sailing halfway around the world again to attack and level innocent countries in failed wars, destroying generations of their youth. Lester Pearson and Canadian diplomats are turning over in their graves.

All this crap will be only be worth it if enough people who voted Conservative wake up and say "WTF were we thinking?".

It may have something to do (vaguely) with a preference for Romney on social spending. I'm sure Harper would love to make dramatic cuts there - and a financial crisis combined with Republican power in the US could give him the leverage.

Harper is driven more by ideology than by either brains or knowledge.

nevermind.. Edited out my long derail. Just wanted to say that everytime they outsource programs--in a baffling fashion, they cut them while managing to keep them.  So, our current government has cut quite a bit actually...but the fancy advertising for all the same programs is still out there, because technically they do exist even if practically they don't. The substance of many programs has been gutted.

Right or wrong is determined by different factors. For Harper it seems that for him it is about setting up the right conditions in the long term so what I call his "project de societe" comes to be the main and dominant political philosophy. If this takes lying (like he did when he was first elected and lied about being able to ban same-sex marriage) or ignoring the norms of international relations, and doing what is most likely to bring peace and prosperty, as he has done with this decision are irrelevant as to what is right or wrong.

This is difficult for people to understand, becasue usually the right wing is reactionary, and short sighted (or what many call foolish). Harper like Dick Cheney sees the big and long term picture and is pro active in doing things that will bring his vision of what the world should be.

harper measures his decisions on a cost/ harm ratio to his long term goals, based on multiple possible future events.

So what is the potential cost to this decisons, based on an Israel war, or peace, and based on a Republican or Denocratic victory.

I believe he sees no cost at all to his long term agenda, if Obama wins the next elections, or if there is no Isareli/Iranian war.

So he has nothing to lose by doing this.

However if the Republicans win the next US election, or if there is a war, the benefits to Harper and his agenda are huge. 

So Harper is neither stupid, nor foolish. He has nothing to lose by this, and the possibility of a big benefit.

As Graeme says, this is unlikely to put any meaningful pressure on the Iranian government.

It does, however, put a lot of negative pressure on Iranian ex-pats living in Canada.  Surely that was Harper's intent...?

Harper didn't just throw a fit and close the embassy for no reason. There is a Canadian on death row in Iran for spying (as an example). I bet they interrogate spies like Americans do. Maybe he was a spy - maybe he implicated others at the embassy.

Israel does not favour Romney over Obama either. They put pressure on both leaders every time there is a federal election.

My prediction: Obama in November - The guys who really run the country don't want to train a new guy every 4 yrs, and Obama laid down right after the last election. His wife has more effect on the world than he does.

Like during the Clinton regime we all said "Hillary got re-elected"?

It's almost like she's a 3 term president!

This embassy closing is a way of kissing up to the virulently anti-Muslim sentiment of Christian evangelicals and fundamentalists many of whom are already pro-Harper/pro-Conservative (in other words pro-Harper first and anti-Muslim second) but this is a move to capture those who are anti-Muslim but not yet pro-Harper.  In other words, this is just another wedge issue.  It is another crude appeal to the black and white sensibilities of right wingers.  If you are for bigger budgets for prisons you must be soft on crime.  If against the closing of the embassy you are pro-Muslim and soft on terrorism.

Geez I detest Harper's methods!

Ever been driving down the road in a hurry and then all of a sudden there is some butthead blocking the lane and you are about to swerve around them - only to see a bunch of ducks emerge from in front of their car? All of a sudden, the reason they stopped makes sense.

Being against leaving Iran without knowing the details could be that you just haven't seen the ducks.

Remember the Iran hostage crisis?

Christians are supposed to pray for their leaders. Who put them there? Even if you don't like him - aren't you supposed to love your enemies?

I suppose, in a democracy, we can pray that they don't stay in office long, that people will elect someone who better serves the interests of everyone. It's not like in Biblical times when there was a non-elected government (as far as we know).

Harper likes to leave out important details that impact lots of people and then slip in surprises...which bothers more than a few people.

I don't hate the guy. I just wish he had another job. Not as PM. An accountant or something where his ideology doesn't get in the way of making rational decisons that affect all Canadians,not just his base. His track record on dealing with the environment, firing scientists, dropping the LF census...not to mention the election robocall scandal (why didn't he call for a full invstigation?). He won a majority (we still don't know if he won it fairly--but we do know that not a majority of Canadians voted for him, it is just the way our electoral system is set up). Every word out his mouth is about $$$, "The economy, the economy" and now this. I know the economy is important to get on track eventually, but you can't forget about basic health and well being of people. Dropping diplomacy and pissing off volitile countries not a good idea, imo, if there is still a channel for diplomacy, it should be kept open...let them talk, and talk, and talk, have meeting after meeting, as long as holds off violence...and i believe there's(was) a chance with Iran because the majority its people are rational educated people, even if their government is not rational. Now they're cut off too. Canadians who didn't suspect Harper has ideological ideas, fiscal conservativs, voted with their pocket-books and didn't look at anything else...so this is why we're in trouble. This is what we get. Thanks PCers. When you put money, the promise of financial wealth before people, to just hear "cat-ching, cat-ching", when you have dollar signs in your eyes, you tend to forget about any other issues, and things can go off kilter in other areas that are important to people...but those who hold the money hold the power, so they stop caring..

I just watched a thing on TV the other night about the Iran hostage crisis. It's my understanding that if we didn't have an active diplomat/ embassy at the time, they could not have pulled it off. It was afterwards that we closed it for a few years.

Spot on.  People need to make themselves aware of what is really going on.

The following documentary is a "must-see".  It is well researched and the interviewees are reputable and credible.

http://www.iraniumthemovie.com/

When the National Archives in Ottawa scheduled a public screening of the film in January 2011, here's what happened...

Jan 18, 2011 - http://www.iraniumthemovie.com/national-post-iranium/

Feb 6, 2011 - http://www.iraniumthemovie.com/despite-threats-canada-to-show-movie-about-iran/

Here's a non-fiction book that may interest you written by Reza Kalili (a pseudonym) who was a member of the Iranian Revolutionary Guard turned CIA spy.  He was in Iran when the US Embassy was overrun and the hostages taken.  According to him, this event was not orchestrated by Iranian students but rather by the IRGC.

http://www.atimetobetray.com/

It's a fascinating yet sobering book that chronicles the events that took place before and after the Revolution in 1979.  The chapter on the notorious Evin prison highlights the torture and atrocities that were carried out against anyone who was even suspected of opposing the regime.  It's not for the faint of heart.   People are still tortured to death in this prison to this day.

The regime that is ruled today by Ayatollah Ali Khameini is carrying on the same ideology and objectives put in place by Ayatollah Ruhollah Khomeini following the Revolution in 1979.  That objective is for the entire world to be ruled by Islam.  The Shiite version of Islam has its own end-times view that involves the return of the 12th Imam or "Mahdi" (their Messiah).

According to their beliefs, the Mahdi will return to bring peace when the world is in utter chaos.  The Iranian regime see it as their duty to prepare the environment for the Mahdi's return.  This regime is bent on plunging the word into chaos in order to fulfill their religious destiny.

The starting point is the destruction of the Jews.  Then the U.S. (and Canada).

See also...
http://atimetobetray.com/blog/iran-leaders-the-coming-is-upon-us-%E2%80%93-israel-shall-be-destroyed-watch-the-video/

Of course, we know from Bible prophecy that this won't happen as planned.  But they don't believe Bible prophecy any more than most of the people who will read this post so they will continue undeterred unless physically stopped.  That's exactly what has been happening for the past 10 years.

On Feb 21, 2003, IAEA inspectors documented 160 active centrifuges in the Natanz uranium enrichment facility with 1,000 more under construction.  In spite of the destruction of approx 3,000 centrifuges as a result of the Stuxnet worm in 2010, the last IAEA inspection on May 19, 2012 found 9,330 centrifuges with 8,818 of them active.  Hundreds more are known to be in the now hardened Fordow facility deep under ground.

Despite sanctions which have basically crippled the Iranian people and 6 rounds of talks between Iran and the P5+1 in 2012 alone, Iran's enrichment to 20% and beyond has been unaffected.  All diplomatic efforts in the past 10 years have accomplished nothing other than to buy Iran time to pursue nuclear weapons capability along with the necessary delivery systems (ballistic missiles).

What Prime Minister Harper does or does not do diplomatically will not impact Iran's plans one way or the other.  The most significant effect of standing up against the Iranian regime and standing beside Israel is the blessing Canada will receive from God for supporting His chosen people.

Gen 12:1 Now the LORD had said unto Abram, Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:

Gen 12:2 And I will make of thee a great nation, and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:

Gen 12:3 And I will bless them that bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed.

I stand with Israel and Prime Minister Harper.

Exactly!  We should pray for Mr. Harper and Mr. Netanyahu to have the strength and courage to face the realities at hand.  We should also pray for President Obama and the Iranian regime to come to their senses and not mess with God's people.

So, if they're not God's 'chosen' people in your limited view, then it's okay for innocent Iranian kids to die? Their lives are worth less than Israeli kids or any other kids?

These bloody wars need to stop! All people were created equal. Figure it out. What is happening in the middle east is a tribal/  family fued that's been going on for millenia, now fueled by oil and religous extremism. It's always been bloody. There are plenty of war mongers on all sides. We need not pray that the "right side" (nobody's perfect in all of this as far as I can tell) gets more power, but that they all get more humility.. I pray they all become peacemakers.

This.

http://www.cbc.ca/news/world/story/2012/09/10/f-vp-stewart-iran-canada.html

There's this. McKay's wife has been pressuring for closure of Iranian embassies for awhile. Maybe the recommendation came from McKay. McKay's response to all this seems a little more sane than the article above that scares the wits out of me. That reminds me of all the media fear mongering that happened right after 9/11, and I am surprised that CBC put it out there .

http://www.ctvnews.ca/politics/canada-will-work-internationally-to-pressure-iran-mackay-1.951062

To add to the possible Why?

It's because countries are really just 'employee pools' of the real rulers of the world...

it's because the Constitutional Republic of the USA (the Founding Fathers were rightly afraid of Democracy|Mobocracy), which is predicated on limiting everyone's power, has to limit the power of soverign nations so that they don't limit the power of individuals

it's because the ancient Empire of Islam isn't dead but has been broken up and sleeping for a short while but now there is the chance to defang it permanently

it's because every human being doesn't have free will and is just following E=MC2 and F=MA and such

it's because we, animals and plants, are a relatively recent invention and have no guarantee of continued existence.  The real rulers of the planet, the microbes, are our Mistresses; we evolved to serve them, not the other way around

and so it goes...

Some of you have convinced me. Harper was absolutely right. But we have to be consistent. We live in a land in which we have displaced the original inhabitants, and still use to power of law and force to coerce them in staying docilel, and on bits desolation we allot to them.

I think Harper should return what we have taken, begin the evacuation of Canada and, while we are evacuating, keep us honest by supplying to native peoples with  weaponry. 

Glad to see lookup has read a book. hint - a person who is a CIA spy against his own country might not be telling the truth about it.

But you've convinced me. bomb iran. Kill a million or so, just like iraq. that will bring peace and democracy to the world just like it did with Iraq. god wants us to do it.

And, while remembering the hostage crisis, remember the British/French/US invasion that overthrew  the democratically elected government of  Iran, and nstalled a murderous dictator. (But, of course, that's not nearly as bad as a hostage crisis. Anyway, any Eye ranians who got killed was just iggerant ay-rabs.)