somegirl's picture

somegirl

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Ontario is have not

Ontario is now a have not province.  I never thought I would see the day.

 

What do you all think about it?  What does it mean to the Canadian economy?

 

Discuss...

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LoveJoy's picture

LoveJoy

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What are you talking about? Are you being sarcastic? (Sorry, but I'm not from Ontario)

somegirl's picture

somegirl

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No, today Ontario has been officially declared a have not province and will be receiving transfer payments from the federal government.

LoveJoy's picture

LoveJoy

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I just heard it on the news. Unfortunately, I'm too wrapped up in American politics today (and tomorrow and the next day) to think about it. But by Thursday I should be going back to being a Canadian again - lol.

sighsnootles's picture

sighsnootles

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i laughed like crazy... get this, ontario is now a 'have not' province, while newfoundland is a 'have' province!!

 

and today, a black man may well become the president elect of the united states. 

 

the gods must be crazy.

Frommian's picture

Frommian

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I feel very sad for Ontario.  Us Newfoundlanders have been "have not" long enough to know how that feels.  Heck, if oil prices keep slipping, we'll be back there again soon enough.  Ontario is there because their biggest industry is dying.  Newfoundland has been there too.  Now Ontarioans face an uncertain future, with many of them having to contemplate packing up and moving if this is prolonged.  We've been there too. 

 

Having been there, I know what you're potentially in for.  It could be a very long, very sad trip.  I hope it isn't.

LBmuskoka's picture

LBmuskoka

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It is not the first time Ontario has been here, however it is the first time the Feds have said they may, note the may, allocate some transfer payments.

 

In the late 70's and early 80's Ontario's manufacturing industry was devastated due to cheaper products coming in from the US and high interest rates.  In the 90's the economy crumbled due to a housing slump.  The bubble always bursts and like snow in the city people are always surprised when it happens.

 

I've seen this province slip in and out of recession too many times and long ago stopped believing the myth this is/was the province of milk and honey.   All anyone had to do was look over the fence of suburbia to see it has always had a large number of people who were have nots and if one looked carefully behind those suburban windows one could see that many were merely hanging on by a thread, one interest hike or job loss away from losing it all.

 

 

LB

"We will not have any more crashes in our time."
John Maynard Keynes in 1927

alta's picture

alta

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LBmuskoka wrote:

   and like snow in the city people are always surprised when it happens.

 

I love that line.  Truer words have never been spoken.  (or typed)

LoveJoy's picture

LoveJoy

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sighsnootles wrote:

i laughed like crazy... get this, ontario is now a 'have not' province, while newfoundland is a 'have' province!!

 

and today, a black man may well become the president elect of the united states. 

 

the gods must be crazy.

 

Crazy? Or is this "the last shall be first and the first shall be last" ....the kind of kingdom Jesus talked about?   Hmmmmmmmm................

ninjafaery's picture

ninjafaery

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Jubilee?

Anyway, it hasn't really sunk in with me that we're a 'have not" province.  Like LB, I've seen the economy become stagnant a few times.  If you can, it's a great time to buy a house. 

Apparently, as transfer payments go, it's not much and won't go far (350 mil?).  Ontario has qualified for this more than once, but this is the first time it's taken the gov't up on the offer.  I wonder if a big chunk of it will go towards infrastructure in the GTA -- transit etc. 

Anyway, we'll ride it out (no pun intended).  I remember in the late seventies and early eighties, new commercial builds were empty and abandoned for a few years, and there was a lot of suburban "monster houses" to be had for a fraction of what the owners paid. 

I hope we'll be a front runner for the "green collar" shift.  There have been many, many jobs lost, but the opportunity is there to retool the ,manufacturing sector to a innovative "green" one.

The steel, auto. forestry, mining and construction industries to name a few, are taking the biggest hit.

I would rather see my tax dollars go to exploring new "soft" industries instead of subsidies for propping up truck  plants etc. 

somegirl's picture

somegirl

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The thing that I've been thinking about is that economies of the 'have' provinces, Alberta, Newfoundland, and Saskatchewan, (NS has the unique distinction of being able to choose whether to be a 'have' or 'have not' province) are based on natural resources, where Ontario's economy is based more on value added manufacturing.   I don't see how it can be a good thing that Canada's economy is so based on natural resources that seem to be at the whim of speculators. 

 

Hopefully the falling dollar will perk up Ontario's economy and they will be 'have' again before the ink is dry on the first check.

ninjafaery's picture

ninjafaery

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My son works in post production for  the film industry in Toronto, and since the dollar fell, the work has been pouring in from US giants, like Alliance Atlantis.  The film industry in Canada is very dependent on the value of the dollar. 

I think you're right about ON being a "have" province again soon. 

 

sighsnootles's picture

sighsnootles

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i was born and raised in saskatchewan, and we always were a 'have not' province.

 

then i moved to ontario, and now saskatchewan is a 'have', and ontario is a 'have not'.....

 

OMG ITS ME!! 

LBmuskoka's picture

LBmuskoka

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sighsnootles wrote:

OMG ITS ME!! 

 

Cue heavy breathing

 

"I sense something, a presence I've not felt since......."

 

1984

 

Cue Darth Vader theme

Exit Stage Left....

sighsnootles's picture

sighsnootles

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i dont' know what this means, but suddenly people are standing on my lawn carrying pitchforks and torches...

somegirl's picture

somegirl

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Sigh, for god's sake don't move to NS.   Please, we'll pay you not to.

seeler's picture

seeler

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I've lived most of my life in a have-not province (New Brunswick).  We get used to it.

But Ontario?

A year ago my sister (who lives in Northern Ontario) told me that Ontario was becoming a have not province.  I kinda laughed at her - told her that Ontario had lots of money - big banking and big business in the Toronto / Niagara area - that if it seemed 'have-not' to her it was probably because of an unequal distribution of wealth to the north, not enough attention to highways, health care, etc the further you got from Toronto.

Some of you old-timers may remember my thread about rating the provinces economically.  I still thought that Ontario would be in the top five, if not the top three.

But now its official, Ontario is rated as a have not province.

I hope that those provinces that are enjoying a booming economy right now, remember the times when Ontario was the one paying taxes so that transfer payments could be made to you.  What is up comes down.  Perhaps Ontario will be the better for feeling the pinch themselves.  But remember, the same thing has happened to you and can happen again. 

Canada is stronger when we share the wealth.  If Ontario needs a boost right now, lets give it.

sighsnootles's picture

sighsnootles

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geez, we'll survive folks.  the plunge on wall street kicked the crap outta us, not to mention the strong canadian dollar didn't do much for our tourism.  but we'll be okay.

alta's picture

alta

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Ontario is a 'have not' province; what next?  Back to back Grey Cups for the Riders?!?

sighsnootles's picture

sighsnootles

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YOU BETCHA, BABY!!!  WHOOO HOOOOOO!!!!

jlin's picture

jlin

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Lucky Ontario.  BC would be much better off as a have not province. 

seeler's picture

seeler

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jlin - I wasn't aware that BC was having such a hard time.  It looked pretty prosperous when I visited that last year - but then if you stick to the main highways and the tourist places almost any province looks prosperous.  You don't have to get far off the main roads in NB to see that some people still live in substandard housing or look at the statistics to see the ratio of teachers to children, or our health care system, or the mass migration of working people to the west, to know that NB is a have not province.

 

Rob1's picture

Rob1

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For many many years Ontario had a Progressive Conservative government & we were a have province. Then we elected the Liberals, & Bob Rae's NDP . . . they promised to change things. It appears they have :-) 

sighsnootles's picture

sighsnootles

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rob... please.

 

we are in the grips of the worst financial crisis THIS CENTURY.   the americans tossed 750 billion at it and couldn't head it off, what makes you think that any ontario provincial government is so powerful?!?!?

 

i hope you are kidding about that.

Motheroffive's picture

Motheroffive

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BC was receiving transfer payments 2 (?) years ago under a right-wing government led by Gordon Campbell. We qualified for them because he cut taxes so hard that we were in a deficit situation and thus, qualified. We're no longer there because of a few factors. However, being a "have" province doesn't really equate to the well-being of everyone or even most people. What it does mean is those who "have" have more and those with little can't even make ends meet. We have the highest child poverty rate in Canada and the poorest postal code in country, under the BC Lieberals Liberals, who are our equivalent of the Conservatives.

 

It's all slight of hand, just like the GDP, which doesn't factor in the well-being of people. Ever see the NFB film "Who's Counting?". It's an education in what all those figures mean.

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ninjafaery wrote:

Jubilee?

 

Yes?

jesouhaite777's picture

jesouhaite777

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Ontario has been a have not province for years LOL where have you been hiding ?

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