How many years has the sunshine list been in place?

Pinga

I'm not sure but its lots of fun. You can find doctors and  nurses salaries on it  too or on  similiar gov't websites.  I was looking for some I might know, just curious.

Quite a while now. It goes back to Harris, I believe.

Mendalla

A lot of university profs make the list, too, esp. deans and chairs. In fact, a lot of full professors make over $100,000 even if they aren't in an administrative role.

Mendalla

Gosh I'm feeling kind of poor......:(

My sense is $100k is too low, given the number of years.

$150k may be more something to be looked at

Honestly, Stardust, the example you gave is exactly why I think itshouldnt' be at a certain level.  Going and browsing to see what nurse made over 100k is a bit "interesting* and a challenge for me.

A lot of university profs make the list, too, esp. deans and chairs. In fact, a lot of full professors make *WELL* over $100,000 even if they aren't in an administrative role.

They can be pulling money from more than one place too, especially if they are in a chair position for an external organization or something similar.

I agree Pinga.  Especially considering many of the positions require degrees.  I don't think many people consider the fact that someone who started working full time right out of high school can easily do just as well on a much lower salary due to factoring in things such as non-earning years when someone is in school, tuition and student loans.

You guys are probably  more up to date on the world of salaries  than I am. I do understand it can take some years to pay off student loans.

I wonder why ( or who) came up with the original idea to publish people's salaries back in 1996? There must have been some commotion or scandal  ( within the gov't maybe..?) that led to it? I'll ask Dr. Google..!! 

This is the first year I've heard of it, or at least heard enough to take notice.  I think it's new here.

chemgal

Dr. Google said.....(see below)...

I was also reading that some gov't employees  aren't too happy to see their fellow employees making more money than they are for much  the same job perhaps. I can see where it would cause dissension in any company. Employees ask for raises accordingly.

It needs to be reviewed and adjusted, especially as it has a per diem and the number has not changed since 1996.

Hi stardust,

This is the justification given for this particular act.  Disclosing the Salary of Public Sector employees makes them more open and accountable to taxpayers.

Which is a great claim.  One thing The Public Sector Salary Disclosure Act doesn't claim or even elucidate is how it make Public Sector employees more open and accountable.

Obviously having your employer broadcast to the general public how much you are being paid counts as being open.

Where does the accountability enter into it?  What mechanism keeps individuals on the sunshine list accountable?

For example.  Kathleen Wynne is on the sunshine list $198, 521.29 was her salary for 2013.  So now I know that how does that make her more accountable than when I didn't?  What extra accountability tools do I have with the information that I would not have without this information?

Anyone?

I guess all I have is knowledge.  Still knowledge is power right.

What knowledge do I have?  I know what she made last year.  Do I know how she made it?  Do I know how many hours she spent serving constituents?  Not from this list I don't.  How do I determine that Premier Wynne is or isn't worth that $198, 521.29?  Wouldn't that play into accountability at all?

What about Progressive Conservative leader Tim Hudak who wants to sit in the Premiere's chair.  Is he or is he not worth $198, 521.29?  I mean as Leader of the Official Opposition he earned $180, 885.96.  What has he done to prove that he is worth that much?  How do I hold him accountable now that I know what he is being paid?

This document doesn't tell me how many hours he spent serving constituents?  He is getting paid less does that mean we expect him to serve constituents less or have we already decided his service is slightly less satisfactory than Wynne's and are paying Him accordingly?

For fairness sake I note that we Ontario Tax Payers are paying Andrea Horwath $158, 157.96.  How many hours has she served her constituents?  Is she worth that much?  Is she worth what we pay Tim to lead the Official Opposition?  Is she worth what we pay Kathleen as the Premiere of the Province?

By comparison City of Brantford Police Constable Nicholas Lawson was paid $101, 143.62.  How many hours did he devote to serving the citizens of Brantford?  Is he worth that much?  I haven't met Nicholas that I am aware of.  I expect he is no less active and takes no less risk than any other constable on the force.  I would imagine that the risk of his being shot, stabbed or assaulted is significantly higher than it is for Kathleen, Tim or Andrea so it is probably fitting that his service to the City of Brantford cost the Ontario Tax payer much, much less.

I imagine that the Sunshine List probably serves a purpose other than being an outrage generator.  I'm at a loss to what that other purpose might be.  I agree that it qualifies as being more open.  Since the only mechanism at my disposal to get rid of Kathleen, Tim or Andrea is a general election and they existed long before the Sunshine List I fail to see how the list actually does anything to impact upon accountability.

In the interest of disclosure I know quite a bit about a certain Assistant Professor in the faculty of Education at Brock University.  Kimberly (my wife) earned $116, 847.98.  I can tell you that Kimberly does not sit on her duff eating bon-bons.  I know how much time she actually has off in any given year. Because she is on the tenure track she is constantly attending conferences as a presenter and she has an impressive number of publications under her belt.  Each of which represents several hours of intense research.

I know that Kimberly does not put her life on the line everyday she goes to work as Constable Lawson does.

I am aware of just how much time she devotes in any given week to her job.

If she worked a standard 40 hour work week she would be earning a little better than $56/hr.  Her typical day is 16 hours long.  She typically works 6 days a week though often it is seven.  Which reduces her earnings to $23.40 an hour if she only works the six days a week.

Now the hard question.  Is she worth that much as someone who teaches the future teachers of the Province of Ontario?  Let's see.  All together she has six under grad and graduate degrees and is working on her seventh (Yes apart from teaching she is also a student).  She brings to the position 14 years of instruction in elementary/secondary and post-secondary environments.  She brings to the position 6 years of experience managing the Autism Spectrum Disorder School Support Program for Hamiltons McMaster-Chedoke Hospitals.  She also perfomed many of those tasks simultaneously.

Quite frankly (and I admit my bias) the Ontario tax-payer is getting a steal of a deal.  I know that most of her students think highly of her.  Most more highly than many of us think of Kathleen, Tim or Andrea.

And how do you, the Ontario tax payer hold my wife accountable now that you know how much she made?  You don't.  You didn't hire her so you can't fire her.  How's that for being open?

Grace and peace to you.

John

(editted to limit personal information)

Did I miss how much Rob Ford makes?

Hi crazyheart,

Hasn't been posted yet to this forum.  So . . . . .

Rob Ford earned $175, 325.18 and his brother Doug earned $104, 105.98

I guess it is up to the Citizens of Toronto to determine if they got $279, 431.16 worth of value out of the two of them.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Hi Rev. John

Thanks for your response. I can only say WOW......good on your wife..... 

Crazyheart

Rob Ford's brother Doug. doesn't receive  any salary from being a councillor  at  city hall.

If I have understood correctly he has arranged that city hall pay certain charities on his behalf with his salary. The charities supported haven't been named that I know of.

I don't like it particularly...ho hum. Also Rob pays his own expenses re trips etc. Its sort of like the Ford Brothers have bought Toronto because the populous  is mightily impressed. They are  also impressed with the fallacy that Rob has saved Toronto 2 billion bucks. It isn't true according to those in the know about his  budget figures and the city hall  financial records. 

LOL @ Rev. John.....I'm not going to comment on what the two of them might be worth to the city of Toronto.

Quote:

To his credit, Ford has shown himself extraordinarily generous. He has donated his entire salary as a city councillor for Etobicoke North for the past three years to various community projects — an intention he disclosed only after winning the riding, as not to affect the votes. Ford also reiterated his pledge earlier this week to donate $50,000 to revitalize 10 parks around the city. And of course, there’s the annual (or semi-annual, as of late) Ford Fest, wherein the Ford brothers treat the public to a free barbecue of food, rides and games.

I suspect most people are mainly concerned about the Execs who make over $500,000/year  --  The management elite seem to have created an international  club where their members are paid what seem like excessive amounts.

As Rev John points out, the accountability part is pretty elusive.

Agreed Jim Kenney.  In reviewing the list, I see that there are two top level people at my hospital whose combined salary accounts for about $1.1million of our budget - two people.  For every 3 Vice Presidents - add almost another million - and there are quite a few VPs.  All this in a place that doesn't supply pens for nurses & other staff because it's "too costly".  

Stardust - $50,000 for 10 parks is a neglible improvement budget.  Over ten years ago, I worked on a project to create an accessible playground in a local public park - the cost of that was approximately $300,000.   So $50,000 sounds huge - but its actual impact is likely not much in reality, especially when spread over 10 parks.  

I think that the inclusion of those under $150k  takes away from the focus over $200k, as there are too many in that group who are "just like us"..and so people quibble.

Carolla's focus on the 2 people who make 1.1 million is possibly a more appropriate focus...or the bunch in the 300k pile

carolla

Re my quote above about Doug. Ford spending $50,000. on parks I had  googled to see where his salary charity donations were going. That was my only interest, not whether it was large or small. I agree  that  $50,000. wouldn't go very  far.

I believe Doug.  should collect his own  salary and then contribute all or  whatever he wishes to the charities of his choice. I'm not very enthused with the Fords.....:(

My problem with this position of Ford, is that he gets away with. Holier than thou behaviour because he is very wealthy.

At the same time somehow they both manage to pretend they are ordinary Joes. Totally puzzling how they manage both positions.

And of course, donating your $100,000 plus salary gets you a pretty good tax write off.

I am tired of this sunshine list.

Like Rev John pointed out, it is meaningless. Do two counsellor a,, who make the same amount work the same for their constituents?

I do know that while there are many toronto police on the list, they mostly push themselves over the top through overtime. Who monitors that I have no idea.

True pinga - I did see an article somewhere that the minimum threshold for the list has not been revised since original publication; allowing only for COLA increases, it was suggested that the min should now be $140K. 

Lastpointe - my thoughts too - the diversion of salary to charity is likely a tax dogde of some sort. 

 Here's another High Flyer, Brampton's mayor Susan Fennell at $213,000. salary  in 2012  and charges of more than $622,000. on city issued credit cards  among 6 staff and herself since the start of  2007. Of course it is covering a few years.

$1.00 for an itunes download and $2. for an airport luggage cart ...quite amusing.

http://www.thestar.com/news/city_hall/2014/04/02/brampton_mayor_susan_fe...