I hope your posting your situation has been of some help to you.  It seems that you need to talk to someone who has the skills and gifts to walk with you as you make some terribly difficult decisions.  I understand the fear response, and hope it might help you if you ask yourself what is the worst that could happen financially for each decision you are considering, and what you would be able to do if that happened.  There are many caring people in this forum, but I don't know if any of us are in a position to offer you the help it seems you need.

I sincerely wish you peace, and renewed hope for your life.  May the love you need be the love you receive.

Wow that is a very sad story.

I have no experience with most of the diffuclties and challenges you are facing.  What I do know as someone who has been afraid and lost  (I had a terminal medical diagnoses when I was in my 20s) is that it is possible to overcome fear and make positive changes.   

You are not alone with your problems, and I believe that whenever we face great difficulties and the fear that come with it, all people need support from others. Having the support of others is key, and while we at Wondercafe can not provide you with all of the support that you will need, there are many here who can listen, and encourage you as you take steps to face your fears and change and reach out to others.

So welcome to Wondercafe, and the wondercafe community.  Talk about whatever you need to.  And  I will keep you in my thoughts and prayers, for you to be guided to good people in your community.

Hello ComplexGirl and welcome to WonderCafe.ca

This stress will be colouring everything you are experiencing and it won't be in happy shades.  It will be impossible to ignore moving forward but we don't have to let it be the definer of reality.

If there was no stress in your life this might not even be an issue.  If he were dealing better with the stress in his life this might not even be an issue.  Of course it isn't simply his life/stress and your life/stress.  You are in this together and it is your communal life/stress.

I think that needs to be the first target.

This is a boundaries issue and like most both of you have different ideas about what the boundaries ought to be.  That is not unusual.  Few couples invest any time in understanding what their personal boundary issues/understanding are.

Most couples function quite well not understanding what their personal issue/boundaries are.  They are like ripples on the surface of a still pond, nothing to worry about.

When the pond is being severely shaken the little ripples become scary waves and the problem intensifies.

Anger management becomes one star in an entire constellation.  It may not be the brightest star until other stars get blocked out due to stress or communication problems.  If the constellation is not tended to any effort to bring one star under control is doomed to fail.

This is classic boundary issue stuff.

Which is scary in and of itself.  Pile all the other stuff on top and it is even scarier.  As hard as it feels, you need to take a deep breath and calm down.  Being scared does not equal being smart and a mistake could hurt everyone.

First things first.  Not all of the behaviour you report is acceptable, even slightly.  Not all of the behaviour is yours to change.  Couple's therapy would be the first place to start in terms of fixing things.  That might be expensive and given the financial situation it puts your family firmly between a rock and a hard place.

It might be too expensive to pursue and yet the cost of a failed marriage might be just as high.

If couple's therapy is not doable then perhaps the two of you could work through a book called boundaries.  I'll provide a link.

http://store.cloudtownsend.com/boundaries-softcover-book.html

It is an american web-site so don't be encouraged by the stated prices.

I owe you a debt of thanks until I tried to find a link for you I was completely unaware of this web-site:

http://www.cloudtownsend.com/

I suspect that it has a lot of resources that your family could make great use of.

And yet more on your plate.  It goes without saying that this will colour your impression of events in ways not entirely helpful either.

If you have been diagnosed with a clinical depression and are being treated for it you should talk to your doctor about the additional stress in your life.  It can really set you back.

Been there and done that.  It alone would be hard enough to deal with.  This is something, in light of your comments about your own depression that should be looked at seriously.

My advice is get some professional help.  Start with your doctor and spill the beans about all the stress in your life.  Ask for a referral for your son and ask for a referral to a therapist or counsellor.

You have a lot on your plate.  If it could be dealt with one item at a time you could manage fairly well.  Dealing with it all at once is not something anyone should try without help.

I can be a sympathetic ear and I can give general advice.  I'm not a doctor and you may need one.

I'm sorry to hear of your stress.  I hope that pouring your heart out here is of some help.  If you are reporting accurately you are going to need more than a sympathetic ear and strong shoulders to lean on.

I don't advise panicking.  That never, ever helps make a bad situation better.  Stay calm and get help.

Grace and peace to you.

John

I don't have any advice ComplexGirl, bur my kind ear heard you, and heard your unhappiness in your post.

I hope you are able to find some good professional persons in your area who are able to help you deal with all the things you are going through and help your family deal with stress and uncertainty at this time in your lives.

Wishing you,

Hope, Peace, Joy, Love . . .

Hi ComplexGirl

Thanks for sharing with us. I'm sure it took some courage. Sorry, but  not knowing you or your family  I'm reluctant to give advice. It would be irresponsible on my behalf. Let me say you sound like a strong person and I do believe you will find your way to do what is best for the welfare of everyone  in your own time.

Rev. John has recommended one of his favorite books "Boundaries" . I'm posting a video and some articles  by the same authors. Perhaps something may resonate or  ring a bell with you. I didn't  manage to read much but I'm hoping the " Boundaries in Marriage " articles may be of some assistance.

I know your mind is spinning. My thoughts and prayers are with you during these difficult times  that I hope will soon pass.

It sounds like both you & your spouse went through a lot of change in a few years:  marriage, new baby, new job...those are a lot of stressers combined with learning to be a couple.  Now there are more stressers with both losing jobs, financial concerns, and well, just a lot going on on top of past history of depression.

It does seem like  a lot, and if you are depressed, it can even seem like more of a weight.

so, i like others, suggest talkign to your doctor, being honest about how you are feeling.  use this post to help you work through some of those thoughts, but, also recognize your partner is also likely trying to figure stuff out. ....not easy.

take care of yourself 

 Sorry to hear of everything complex girl.

In some ways I feel like been there done that.

You certianly can't do everything all at once.  But you can set a goal and take small steps towards it.

One goal may be to increase the money coming in-I know easier said then done.

Another goal might be to more equally share food prep and kitchen clean up. You and your dh can discuss this one. What works for both of you? Aletrnating days? One cooking one on dishes?

Same with getting kids ready for school-do you each do a kid or do you alternate days?

With counselling I learned to more clearly ask for what I needed.

Hugs and do seek out some help!

Hi ComplexGirl, welcome to wondercafe.  I'm curious about how you found your way here, if you care to share that. 

I agree with the suggestions and support offered above.  

Since you are in Ontario, if you are looking for any kind of community resources there is a good clearinghouse to know about - http://www.211ontario.ca/   You may find some very valuable connections there. 

Welcome

Like others I agree to discuss with your doctor and get some referrals.

If you are attending a church I would also make an appointment with the minister. They can counsel and had good community contacts.

I personally try to remember that I am only looking at things through my own eyes. My mother used to always say to me, and I try to do this, "how would the other person describe the same situation"

I'll be praying for you. I defintely agree with others who said see a medical doctor and try to get your kids to see some kind of counselor/psychiatrist as well. I do think you need some distance from your husband, maybe temporarily, maybe permanently. Make that decision when you have your feet underneath you better not when it feels like things are spinning out of control. Look at what is available as far as public assistance. I've always heard that Canada does a much better job than here in the U.S. (topic for another day) and if there are any really good friends or family that would let you stay with them for less than a place all your own would cost.

One thing I've heard helps when things seem overwhelming is to break things down into bite sized pieces. Don't look at all your problems and think they're insurmountable, pick one and work on it. While doing that don't think about the others. When you've done what you can for the moment on that one, set it aside and work on another. If looking at your day seems daunting, just look at the next hour, or the next five minutes if that's all you can handle. I really hope you find your way through this.

Welcome to the WC ComplexGirl.  You must be a very brave person to start by sharing such personal stuff.

It would be nice, and infinitely easier, if we didn't get challenges like the one you share - but difficult though it is, we can learn a lot from the tough times we live through. 

There doesn't seem to be much that I can add to the earlier posts - there is some useful information and suggestions there for you to ponder, and hopefully, act on.  Get some support for youself and your kids first, and carry on from there.

Sending a big dose of hope your way along with some cyberhugs (((((ComplexGirl)))))

Complexgirl - if I were in the situation you describe I think the best solution would be to take the kids and get out -now - before things get worse.  If you have no family or friends who are in a position to help, go to a woman's shelter.  There are people there who can help you sort out what is happening in your life and you and your children will be safe. 

I watched my daughter and grandchildren in a situation similar to what you describe.  She stayed for several years longer than she should have.  It was detrimental to her and to the kids.  And it gave her husband that much longer to wallow in depression and self-pity before he woke up and realized what he was losing.  Maybe if she had forced the issue sooner, he would have sought help sooner and the marriage might have been salvaged.  By the time he did (saw a doctor, got on anti-depressant medicine, got a job) it was too late for the marriage. 

Get out now.  Take the kids with you.  

(my advice)

I am somewhat inclined to say the same thing as Seeler. I'll just add  a few observations from what a have read of your story.

When he  is passed out on the couch during the Easter egg hunt it tells me your husband is suffering from depression (and might also be self-medicating with drugs and/or alcohol). So that makes two of you.

It is not possible to will oneself out of depression any more than you can will yourself out of pneumonia. You both  need medicine ... so see a doctor (both of you) ... you both  need psychological support ... get the doctor to refer you (both) to a psychotherapist. You both need to regain a sense of optimism and wellbeing ... so maybe some level of spiritual practice is in order to reduce your anxiety levels ... perhaps mindfulness practice or meditation.

In my job I meet a lot of anxious people (it is an anxious job) and people who are immersed in anxiety tend not to have a lot of awareness or insight into their own situation or how they are affecting others. Living with anxiety is like living in a tunnel.  For lack of a better way of saying it anxious people become self-centred (IN THAT THEY ARE FOCUSSED ON THEIR OWN PAIN AND FEAR). This is likely a contributing factor to your husband's inability to move forward with his plans or to make the necessary adjustments and comprimises to (as they say on the sub-continent) "do the needful".

Real estate sales is a difficult anxiety laden profession with long lead times and high  levels of uncertainty. When you aren't making money you are spending it and if you haven't got some sort of cushion or means one cannot operate properly (or at all). This is not a profession for someone who is depressed because depression tends to produce stasis and what is required to succeed in real estate is industry and activity. Desperation is also bad for sales.  Prospects can smell it and shy away because real estate clients are themselves most often full of fear and need reassurance. A real estate agent who reeks of fear and anxiety cannot provide the necessary support their propects need and want..

Your husband is snapping at you and the kids because he wants to feel in control of something (even if it is just his own kids).  You need to take some steps to break out of this slough of despond in which you are caught.  If your husband is unwilling then you must push on to get on a more positive footing for your own sake and that of the children.  That may entail some sort of separation. 

Writing your feelings and thoughts (as you have done) is also a useful practice as doing so (even if it is in your own private journal) gives your thoughts form, order and focus so that you can achieve for yourself clarity and insight about your own situation which you might not otherwise be able to salvage out of an otherwise unorganized and formless tumult of thoughts and impressions.

wow, great posts on this thread.

I just want to add to seeler's advice that if you decide to leave be sure and take the kids with you at the same time. Otherwise your husband may say you walked out and abandoned your kids, if it comes to court and a battle for child custody later. This  has been known to happen.

A hug for you  (((((((((((((ComplexGirl )))))))))))))))))))))))))

How are you feeling today about all of this ComplexGirl?

Good Morning ComplexGirl, first of all welcome to the WC.

I find myself agreeing with most of the advice you've received above, but I'm also wondering if you have a church family? If not have you consdered going? I know the benefits of a standard therapy but I also know the benefits of knowing God and the peace that this knowing can bestow upon you. I have had many trials within my own life and to be honest with you, unltimately it was my faith that led me out of the darkness and through to the other side. I never discount the power of prayer to change our lives and even others. It changes our heart and our attitude and through these changes, that others can observe, it often can affect those that surround you. I encourage you to take some of this in prayer to God, who is with you always, and hand over your burden to Hiim. You may also want to find a church family to be a part of, not to resolve all your problems , but to help with a more positive direction and an offering of fellowship. Be forewarned finding a church does not offer instant answers for your problems, but it can offer a hope that over time as you invest in participating, will give you more strength and purpose towards not just helping yourself, but your family and others.

Hi everyone, thank you so much for all of your posts.  I am truly appreciative that you took time out of your lives to lend some time to mine. :) All of what you say is acknowledged and makes sense. I say this now, feeling not too bad...by myself in the house (a rarity) so there is a sense of calm in me. Things are roughly the same...he has helped a little with getting breakfast ready on one or two occasions this past week, but I still feel as though so much is relegated to me. Perhaps it's all my fault, for not being more vocal about it in the first place, so now it's more habitual. At any rate, it is what it is. I am going to make an appointment with my Dr. and see what she says.  Yes, I believe my husband is suffering from depression, too, he saw a Dr, but then the Dr. sais he thought he was doing good (my husband is the kind of person who knows what to say to a Dr. lol) and he doesn't go there any longer. He didn't like how he felt on the anti-depressants, so he went off of them. It's funny when I talk to him about all this, and how I see him as being unhappy and depressed, he just responds with "well living with you is difficult too, you are not ms, sunshine - living with you is f'n depressing!"  Really mind boggling, because I try to act happy, even if I am not all the time - and I feel that i smile and laugh (at least with the kids) more than he, I say "hello!" in a cheery tone - he responds to me in a monotone, if at all. When we were both at home today, I was cleaning up around the house, and he came down the stairs and I said hi and he said it back but with a weird tone - he wondered why I always have to say hi like we haven't seen each other in a long time. To me, passing by someone you live with withOUT saying anything is kind of weird - and I don't like it!  Am I weird for thinking it??? In the past, when I have went to kiss him goodnight, he has said, you have already kissed me goodnight but ok *shrugs* and makes me feel unwanted, unloved and stupid. So what if I have already? Is it so bad to receive another kiss?? Anyway, I could go on and on, as per usual. I will see if I can see a Dr. sometime soon and see if I can get a referral to someone. I start a short-term (one month) contract next week so hopefully sooner rather than later. I've had a few bad days this past week (but put on a happy demeanor for my kids/shake out of it) and it's not a good feeling.Thank you all for your advice. Again, much appreciated.  P.S.  I am not from a church family, my husband is, but is not practicing. I agree that meditation of some sort might be a good avenue.

Really Complexgirl, I don't see anything you are getting out of this relationship.  I think that if I were in your position I would be making plans for life as a single mom (you already are taking on most of the responsibilities as a single mom anyway).  But I am not you.  You will have to make this decision for yourself.  Perhaps seeing your doctor is the first step.  Keep in touch.   This is a good place for sharing your feelings and unloading.  I care.

(((((((((((((((ComplexGirl))))))))))))))))))

Nice to see you again. Keep us updated.

Meanwhile here is a blessing for you:

http://www.andiesisle.com/anirishblessing.html

Hi ComplexGirl,

It won't ever be all your fault.

That said, it is unfair to be criticial of folk who don't offer help if you have not asked for any.  Open and honest communication is the backbone of any healthy relationship.  It takes a lot more work than most of us suspect and sometimes more than some of us can give.

This is a common issue.  Anti-depressants can make some folk feel like they are swimming through a thick fog.  They notice the few ticks longer it takes to think something through or to answer a question and it is uncomfortable.

Self-medication (including quitting medication) is often a recourse individuals take when they "feel" the medication slowing them down in some regard.

That he was prescribed anti-depressants in the first place suggests that there is an issue present of some kind and now it is not getting the attention it needs.

Not an altogether surprising thing for someone with depression to say.  The problem is that he is attributing his problems with mood to you and not taking responsibility for his own moods.

That is a failure strategy.  Neither of you can win that way.

Real happiness is not an act.

There is a difference between the genuinely happy and folk who are pretending to be happy.  At the same time affect doesn't necessarily indicate mood.

Sounds like my house.

This sounds less like mood than it does personal preference.  Would you consider yourself an extrovert?  What about your husband would you consider him an introvert?

Around the house I could get by with simply being gutteral.  My wife is a chatterbox.

From where I sit she is constantly breaking up the silence and filling the house with noise.

From where she sits I an anhedonic.

Both of us operate out of rather selfish perspectives that we believe are "normal" when really they are only "preferential."

First off.  He doesn't make you feel anything.  You are responsible for what you feel.  You don't make him feel anything either.  He is responsible for what he feels.  This is very difficult for many folks to accept.  Accepting it makes relationships so much easier.  No relationship flourishes when individuals feel that they are being changed by the other.

Consider that you are married and that you have promised to love one another.  Consider also that neither of you probably outlined what that would look like, you both assumed.  And now because you are two different people acting contrary to those assumptions you assume something is wrong.

Remember the proverb, "When you assume you make an ass out of you and me."  

You are experiencing communication problems and that can be hard enough on a marriage.

The kissing bit may have nothing to do with you.  If he is not feeling good about himself he simply won't believe that you find him attractive.  Depending on how he "thinks" if he actually is depressed he might percieve affection as a dig.

It sounds crazy.

And that is the problem.  It sounds crazy but neither of you actually are crazy, you just have other things on your plate.

So, you want a kiss and he finds the request redundant.  This is when open and honest communication is helpful.  Do not ask, "Don't you love me?"  Tell him, "I love you and I enjoy kissing you."

The first line tears him apart whereas the second builds him up.

Right now that would only matter if he felt that he was being deprived of something or you felt you were being forced into something..  Possibly it might inform how emotions are shown.  Some 'religious' folk are ecstatic types and others are more stoic.

Meditation can be useful for an individual.  Particularly if you focus on what you need to to.

Otherwise it becomes a source of agitation because you focus more on what is wrong with the other.

I would only advise meditation as a supplement to communication not as an alternative to communication.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Being open and honest in communication has been essential in my own marriage.  We realised that it just isn't fair to expect our partner to guess what we want - what we dream of - how we feel (physically and emotionally) - but we frequently fail and have to start over.

Thanks again all who have responded. We have seen a counsellor, and she thought a huge part of all this is a breakdown in communication, but really, it has always been like this.  And it's not just the communication, it's how he speaks to me, how he treats me. When I do tell him "I don't like it when you say that, it makes me feel..." he gets all upset and defensive and says he is not allowed to feel any emotion"  Last night for example...he made sauce for pasta, I boiled the water and made the pasta. Well it got a bit overcooked. He had a slightly peeved look to his face, and asked him if he was such. He said "no, I am not allowed to feel that" and I said "No, for this (overcooked pasta) you shouldn't be". He was steaming for quite a while afterwards. Seriously, overcooked pasta gets me the cold shoulder and a peevy attitude??  it's the little things that make it so difficult. I never know when he's going to get upset.  Screw the communication, treating me like he respects me as a fellow human being, the mother of his children, and the person that he said he loved, I FEEL is sometimes not in the picture.  So, in turn, I feel that HE makes me feel unloved, unwanted, and taken for granted.  How many times must one say to someone "I don't like it when you say that" before it becomes like a broken record? How many times before you feel it's made to be redundant and shoved under the carpet? How many times before it just sparks yet another argument. So you learn to shut up and move on, but from there the resentment builds and it's a vicious circle.

It is a vicious cycle but it is one that everyone participates in, whether you see that or not.

Working on how you communicate with a counsellor will help and making an effort to be kind to each other will too.

My mother once said to me that she tried to treat her family as nicely as her aquaintences. If you think about it we are very polite to people we sort of know. Lots of please and thank you and after you .......

Yet we take family for granted.

If I had over cooked pasta I would have had two possible reactions. Toss it and make it again if I had more, it's a pretty cheap item, or I would have appologised a lot for ruining dinner and thanked my hubby for the great sauce. If it was a meaty sauce and I had buns I might have offered us sloppy joes instead.

I think giving a cold shoulder to someone we are angry at feels like we are keeping our temper in check. Perhaps your hubby feels that is better than being verbal about his annoyance.

When my kids bugged me I used to ask myself if this will matter in five years. If not I tried, not always successfully, to ignore it.

Marriage works when both parties out the other person first. Sometimes it feels like one person does all the giving, especially with illness...... But it evens out.

Perhaps he is very stressed about this illness, job issues, finance problems....... Perhaps you can help by discussing it

How goes it, Complexgirl?

It is often not the symtom,but what led up to it. I say that as my family members have also been frustrated by overcooked foods. The cause was that I was distracted by reading, wondercafe or gaming . It wasn the overcooked food, it was the lack of attention to something that mattered to them