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chansen

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Coming out to parents as an atheist

This topic has fascinated me recently. I was browsing reddit just now, and came across another story where a 16-year-old announced he was an atheist to his family, and his mother has since refused to feed him under her roof.

 

I don't go to r/atheism all that much. It used to be such a circle jerk, but to their credit they cleaned the place up of a lot of the crappy meme attempts. The infighting, of course, continues. I still have no interest in posting to atheist communities, it's pointless.

 

But still, it seems like every week there is a kid coming from a deeply religious family who announces or confesses that he or she is an atheist, and the parents either kick them out or severely restrict their privledges or refuse to pay tuition until they profess belief again.

 

The r/atheism FAQ even lists the preferred way to come out as an atheist. Essentially, they recommend the kids lie:

 

r/atheism wrote:

Should I come out to my parents as being an atheist?

The short answer is "No."

The slightly longer answer is that if you are not in a position where that is likely to end well for you, you should probably wait until you're more self-sufficient. However, you know your own parents better than we do. You could try breaking the ice on the subject of atheism to get a feel for their reaction to it in general, if you're not sure. Always keep in mind that for many people religion is a highly emotive subject, and for many parents who have been raised to believe in the "moral superiority" of religious belief, a child who comes out as an atheist can be interpreted as a betrayal of them or as a failure of their own.

In some religions, it can actually be dangerous to "out" yourself. If you're coming from one of those, keep that in mind as well.

r/atheism will almost invariably respond that you should wait. A common proverb here is "The best place to come out to your parents is at a home you own, over a dinner that you paid for yourself".

If you do decide to "come out," then consider that "atheist" has many evil, hateful connotations to religious people. It's right up there with "Satanist." You might be able to reduce the amount of flak you get by choosing a label for yourself that has a similar meaning but is less controversial. Please consider using an alternative such as "agnostic" or "humanist", which does not carry quite as much baggage.

There's also another approach: You could say "I've lost my belief" or "I don't know what to believe any more" or even "God doesn't speak to me any more." Asked if you are an atheist, you could say "I don't know."

This makes you look less like a monster and more like a victim. You'll be subject to sympathy rather than anger. You won't be kicked out. But you run the risk of having folks work really hard to bring you back to God. Expect (more) frequent church visits, and maybe a talk with the priest/pastor/counsellor.

 

Now, I absolutely hate lying, but I can not think of a better response. In many cases it seems these are loving parents. Normal parents. Who then flip out when their child does not believe in the correct way. I thought the FAQ explained it well, that in some cases, the parent will consider it their own failing when their child loses faith.

 

I understand that the majority of UCCan parents would not act in this way. I understand a lot of your own kids are probably atheists or agnostics, as the terms are commonly used.

 

So, what advice would a UCCan member give to a neighbour kid who's family belongs to a strict evangelical church, and  wants to tell his parents that he just doesn't believe? Is there a better way to go about it?

 

For reference, here are some stories I dug up. There is just a steady stream of these cases at r/atheism:

 

http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/1mqjep/told_my_parents_didnt_end_well/

http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/1m5cy9/atheist_among_strict_christian_parents/

http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/1lb6jh/i_need_help_coming_out_to_my_parents_about_being/

http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/1lwtft/mildly_terrified/

http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/1lw8t7/you_can_never_leave_mormonism_as_a_teenager/

http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/zs415/my_english_teacher_told_my_parents_i_am_an/

http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/emt6r/to_all_ratheisms_younger_readers_dont_come_out_to/

And, in case you feel like being angry today:

http://www.reddit.com/r/atheism/comments/q6is0/in_september_2009_after_admitting_to_my_parents/

 

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Elanorgold's picture

Elanorgold

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Oh those poor kids. At first I thought you were going to talk about coming out as an atheist parent to other parents! lol! That too can cause problems, as I have discovered! What! Not bringing your kids up in God's way? What heathens! What satanists! What inadequate parents!! 

chansen's picture

chansen

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My daughter recently asked a question related to religion, for the first time in a year or so. I told her that some people believe in a god or gods.

 

"What's a god?"

 

"A god is a being who some say created everything we see, and some think watches over us today. Some think gods give us rules to live by."

 

"Do you believe in a god?"

 

"No."

 

And that was the end of it. We didn't get to pantheism.

 

This is a 6-year-old girl who can name about 50 dinosaurs and knows that a 12-sided die is a dodecahedron, and can pronounce all those words and more, because she wants to learn. When she asks a question, we answer it, or we look up the answer together. When she asked about religion, she got immediately bored of talking about it, which is, I think, a natural response for a kid who learns that some people believe in a deity that they can't see and doesn't obviously do anything. They'll go on to something that's more interesting.

 

But back to the original point, I looked up the school in that last link. Holy shite. It's a prison for kids. Read their FAQ:

Horizon Academy wrote:

8. Q: Once I make the decision to enroll my teen, how do I get them to Horizon Academy?
A: Your admissions representative will assist you through different options for getting your teen to the school. Each situation is different. Some students will come voluntarily, while others will not. We let you determine what you feel is best for your child.

10. Q: My child may turn eighteen while enrolled at Horizon Academy. Does the school have the legal right to keep them from leaving after the eighteenth birthday?

A: No. By law, an eighteen year old person is considered of legal age and may discharge him or herself from the school. “Exit plans” may be arranged in advance, however, to facilitate a smooth transition between Horizon Academy and the next step in the student’s life. Many students choose to remain at school beyond their eighteenth birthday, however, as they are set on accomplishing specific goals not tied to their physical age.

Yes, they will take your child against their will, and lock them in a school/prison that is 100 miles from civilization, if you count Las Vegas as "civilization".

 

This school isn't just for atheist kids as the reddit posts suggests - it takes all sorts of kids with behavioural problems, like suicidal homosexual kids, for example. Because the best people to deal with gay teens are the people who will tell them they're bound for hell.

 

Rev. Steven Davis's picture

Rev. Steven Davis

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Obviously horrific responses that probably do stem from feelings of failure on the part of the parents. Of course, I was in my 20's, but my family probably felt like failures when I rejected their teaching and came out as a theist. At least I was still welcome at the dinner table.

 

Seriously, though, generally speaking I think the extreme reactions are probably the small minority, although probably the more strict/conservative/fundamentalist the more likely an extreme reaction is. So how you go about "coming out" would be contextual. Using a less in your face word than "atheist" might help. Playing the victim card might help. Some parents will be OK with it, some will call in the pastor, shunning is an option in extreme cases.

 

As for me, as a Leafs fan I'm devastated that my daughter likes the Boston Bruins. I still feed her though. Grudgingly.

chemgal's picture

chemgal

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chansen wrote:

But back to the original point, I looked up the school in that last link. Holy shite. It's a prison for kids. Read their FAQ:

 

Have you never come across them before?  They are worse than some prisons

http://healthland.time.com/2012/11/13/investigative-report-reveals-some-...

chemgal's picture

chemgal

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If a child was in an extremely religious family my recommendation would be not to tell their family unless they ran away and got themselves into a stable situation first, where legally they wouldn't be sent back.

Rev. Steven Davis's picture

Rev. Steven Davis

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Essentially these "schools" are the religious equivalent of "deprogrammers" - the ones who sometimes essentially kidnap young people (with parental consent) who've gone gaga over some cult to pressure them (sometimes hard) to give it up.

Azdgari's picture

Azdgari

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Given the nature of most of those schools, wouldn't "programmer" be more apt than "deprogrammer"?  They're pretty cultish in and of themselves.

Kimmio's picture

Kimmio

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Poor kids. I'm just picturing it:

1. 1 hr of TV per day

2. 2 hrs of homework per day

3. In bed no later than 10:30 on school nights

4. You must profess Jesus as your lord and saviour...???

I think parents should realize that this could backfire. A friend who I knew well in elementary school but drifted apart from after moving houses, in highschool, but still kept in touch with from time to time- had a very religious mother. Actually, my mom and I once attended a class with them at a Baptist church- all about how girls and women should dress and groom (my mom also lost touch with her mom- she was a nice lady but my mom wasn't interested in her church). I went to Sunday school with her a few times (probably before that class). Anyway, this friend ended up- let's just say she rebelled pretty hard, and a little younger than most. Was a "punk rocker" drinking and counting notches on her bed post when her parents weren't home, by age 16. However, it was a 'phase'. Last I heard she is a successful doctor- but I don't think she was ever religious like her mom, and I suspect it may have had something to do with her rebellion. Although, her mom would not likely have kicked her out- but may have made her go to church.

I am glad my parents told me that faith was something for me to figure out when I'm older. It was never part of the house rules- they weren't religious. However, it would have been good to have grown up with the community aspect of church.

John Wilson's picture

John Wilson

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I grew up in a large fairly well to do familiy: Mother, Uncle, Brother, Sister, Grandmother and Ultimate Ruler: Grandfather.

 

His strict rule on one point: Religion or Politics were never to be discussed.

In retrospect, a great idea.

 

Fomented curiosity in an interesting way, not the purpose of the rule of course...

 

 

 

Elanorgold's picture

Elanorgold

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Chansen, that sounds a lot like the conversation we had with our son about it. But he added, "Why do they believe that?" I answered as factually, and sensitively as I could, then the topic was dropped. It came up again because we were living in the bible belt and I had to equip my son before the evangelicals got to him first. They even send their kids out to evangelize other kids. One kid said dangerously to my son that he knew who Darwin was, and that he was bad (we had the Darwin fish on our car), and then proceeded to begin telling my son about Jesus and salvation. This was a 10 year old who couldn't add 4 quarters up and get a dollar. I gave the kid a 2 minute math lesson. Soon thereafter, all 6 kids were enrolled in school. Christian school. Ran screaming from the prairie we did. Bloomin' nightmare.

 

LOL Steven, about the Bruins. 

Elanorgold's picture

Elanorgold

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This programing school thing reminds me of an episode of Twilight Zone called Evergreen. Family moves to this gated community to rehabilitate their wayward teenage daughter, and it turns out that if the organizers can't rehabilitate a regular rebellious teen, who turns out to be the most decent and promising person in the place, they turn them into fertilizer... Who's the monster now?... Yup.

 

It's only 20 minutes long:

See video

Elanorgold's picture

Elanorgold

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Yup, religion backfiring. My first boyfriend was like that, but in a different way. He was a googie goodie, so afraid of displeasing his parents who kept him on such a short leash you could really call it a cage. Poor guy wasn't allowed to think or feel for himself. He turned out gay. I do think his parents' pressure had a part in that, perhaps the trigger. Not that gay is bad of course, but was a hard road for him to travel into adulthood. He is happy now by the way, by what I know.

 

And I was a 16 year old mild rebel too, not punk, but close. And I turned out ok... I think... My parents weren't religious, there were other reasons I cut loose and was dark.

WaterBuoy's picture

WaterBuoy

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Gae ... Gay Lily'n in a place of whetting, now there's alien conception ... a strange thought to question. In religion nothing is questioned ... since the parents and granparents told the kids how it was ... even if it wasn't right!

 

It could come back at you as backfire .... sort of ego out of 'elle ... eL! Then you'll see Mr. Higgins ... the bo s'n GUI ... stuff that goes around ... and each pas you see something Nus!

WaterBuoy's picture

WaterBuoy

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Consider that John Wilson couln't believe what I was taught and not allowed questions about that religious extremism. Some people don't wish to hear such things and thus they don't know it when encountered again ... what happens when you don't know ... Syht ... ponder it ... like slowing down to think ... tres vite ... rapid deceleration allows for fallout to properly develop ... some call this chimera ... others something else like monstous thinking machine ... Ezekiel's Weal? Thus it was struck and cast ... as a po' foundling ... isolated thought as a daemon to ye gods?

SG's picture

SG

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"Coming out" can be great. It can be liberating. It can also be ugly. It can be painful and it can be dangerous. Saying, you like a same-sex person, someone of another race or faith, someone your parents don't approve of, that you have had sex, that you are pregnant... all that and more can and does in this world mean a teeen may be at homeless shelter or worse.Those things include, "I don't believe in God". Talking to LGBTQ teens about coming out, I have always first asked the same thing I did on a hotline for abuse victims, "Are you safe?". For me, being authentic and real is one thing... getting killed is another. The same applies for a beating or homelessness. To stay safe sometimes you have to pretend, lie, hide... until you can be safe.

Rev. Steven Davis's picture

Rev. Steven Davis

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Azdgari wrote:

Given the nature of most of those schools, wouldn't "programmer" be more apt than "deprogrammer"?  They're pretty cultish in and of themselves.

 

Indeed, I was simply pointing out that it's the same type of strategy employed.

BetteTheRed's picture

BetteTheRed

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There is another side of the coin, of course. Kids from atheist parents who are, for whatever reason, godde-fascinated. Often their families don't understand at all. My parents, though, looked at me in bemusement, and let me toddle off, siblings in hand, around the corner to the closest church, for many, many years. My mother (never my Dad), would show up as the "appropriate adult" at occasions that demanded it, like confirmations.

chansen's picture

chansen

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That's a pretty rare thing, Bette. It does happen, but the posts at r/christianity, like your experience, aren't nearly as harrowing as what atheist kids experience at the hands of religious parents.

 

Rev. Steven Davis's picture

Rev. Steven Davis

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The reaction to children of atheists becoming theists tends to be a reaction of bewilderment and confusion. Perhaps concern if the kids are of a younger age, since some atheists (I didn't say all or most or even many, but some) buy into the idea that all clergy are out to get your kids for nefarious purposes, because that's all we hear about in the media.

 

The "extreme" reaction of fundamentalist parents to children who turn away from faith, of course, is also to some extent motivated by their fear that by making this choice the kids are destined for hell; therefore the rationale is that whatever I have to do to get their attention and turn them around is fair game because they have to be "saved" from this horrible fate that they're now destined for. I'm not sure that cutting the kids off or arranging for them to be held hostage and programmed, re-programmed or de-programmed (whichever you want to call it) is helpful in that regard, but the almost irrational reaction is motivated by fear and even a sense probably of love, expressed in a terribly unhealthy way.

 

It's not only religion. I've known parents and children who barely speak to each other (if they speak to each other at all) because of political differences - and many parents try to "brainwash" their children into their politics. I became a political partisan (gave it up long ago though and now don't support any party in particular) when I was in my teens. Served on riding association executives, campaign committees, etc. in my teens. My family in addition to being atheist were also apolitical. I'm not even sure they ever bothered voting. So I was looked on as a little weird because of that too.

 

But what used to amuse me even at that age was the concept of a "family membership" to a political party. So the kids over 12 could be full, voting members of the party (won't say which one but I suspect they're all similar). Clearly, the parents were exposing them to "the party" in the hopes that they would themselves become good little "whatevers." (Pick your party.) So they came to meetings, worked on campaigns, met the candidates, sometimes even attended conventions. Probably in many cases before they were really even remotely interested. 

 

I've also known physical altercations to break out among family members who support different teams in sports. Thus far, I've not become physical with my daughter - although I had to restrain myself as she celebrated the Bruins overtime goal in Game 7 after the Leafs had blown that 4-1 lead!

waterfall's picture

waterfall

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I don't agree with the methods you mentioned above Chansen, but how do you raise an atheist child? Is it intentional? I know you personally may talk about religion and gods to your kids, but is it with a definite bias towards unbelieving?

 

 

Kimmio's picture

Kimmio

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Not sure about chansen's situation, but I think my parents, as agnostic, had a bias towards 'unbelieving'- or let's say 'not believing'. 'Unbeliever' is a word usually only used by Christians, often in a derrogatory sort of way. Anyway, my parents allowed me to go to church with friends, exposed me marginally to religion- probably because most of the rest of my family besides them still went to church and it was a family culture thing they didn't want to leave me out of entirely. They wanted me to know about it. However, I remember my dad made comments. My dad made fun of the 'health and wealth' type believers in the late 70's early 80's. ( there was a new influx of that theology in our city at that time). I remember him putting on the southern drawl a little when joking about it. It probably coloured my perspective. As a critical thinking adult I think I would have come to the same conclusion anyway.

chansen's picture

chansen

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Good question, waterfall. I just don't mention it. If she asks, I answer to the best of my abilities. I'm obviously biased against religion, but I try to let her reach her own conclusions.

 

For example, she comes up with hypotheses about what happened to the dinosaurs all the time. Almost none of them are plausible, but I don't tell her that. I'm just happy that she's thinking about stuff. She'll eventually discount her wackier ideas on her own, and she already does that. Same with belief in gods. She might profess belief some day, and that's cool, but she's such a little engineer that I expect she'll come to an unbelieving position on her own. If she becomes a believer, then that's fine, but without early indoctrination, the odds are stacked heavily in the other direction.

 

Kimmio's picture

Kimmio

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Chansen, do any of your family- aunts, uncles, etc. go to church? Just curious.

Kimmio's picture

Kimmio

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We had a bible in the house- but I just remembered that a hard cover copy of The Evolution of Man was prominently displayed. And my dad used to subscribe to Time/ Life collections of all sorts of books I would flip through.

kaythecurler's picture

kaythecurler

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I wonder why these kids decide they have to tell their parents something they already know will cause hassles?  Don't most teens withhold information from their parents if the sharing is likely to cause them to freak out?

 

I had a friend who was expected to attend church every Sunday.  She didn't 'believe' anymore but attended and spent the time meditating.  Once she was able to leave home she quit all connection with church.  Her parents didn't like it but she repeatedly pointed out that she was now an adult and could do as she wished.

Kimmio's picture

Kimmio

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It is different making your kid take piano lessons and making them attend church, though.

Rev. Steven Davis's picture

Rev. Steven Davis

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If I could speak from personal experience, I don't think I was raised by an atheist family to be an atheist. It's just that the subject of religion was rarely (very rarely) talked about. My family was probably less gracious than chansen in dealing with the issue on the few ocassions it came up. I can remember a couple of times asking why I didn't go to Sunday School like my friend from school did, and the response was "we just don't believe in that crap" or words to that effect. But it wasn't that it was drilled into my head over and over. It's just that there was clearly no religious activity or even interest in my family.

 

In my case, I think it instilled in me more than anything else not an antipathy toward religion but a sense of curiosity about what went on in those buildings called "churches." That, combined with some personal "stuff" for lack of a better word, led me to check out those buildings and what went on in them, and ... voila ... here I am. With my family still not entirely getting what it is I do or why I bother. As I was once told by a relative, "Steve, you're a pretty smart guy. Why don't you just give up that nonsense and get a job where you could actually make some money?"

Kimmio's picture

Kimmio

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My dad would have said that to me too, still does, about any job that doesn't pay well- Rev Steven, even though he used to make fun of health and wealth. It's probably that he wants me not to struggle, not to have to worry financially. I brought him to church with me this summer for a blues concert, that happened to be going on I thought he would enjoy- and there turned out to be a little sermon on modest means and sharing your gifts. He drove me home and had to catch a ferry afterwards so I never got to talk to him about that.

chansen's picture

chansen

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Some distant relatives do, I think. On my wife's side, her brother was nominally Anglican and married a Catholic so they go to a Catholic church where the priest looks exactly like Gord Downie. I typically amuse myself by making jokes in any church I go to, so they've stopped trying to drag us to baptisms. Probably so her parents don't flip out. My last conversation with them, they mentioned they had just come back from vacation.

 

"Oh, where from?"

 

"The Holy Land"

 

"Sorry, where?"

 

"The Holy Land."

 

"Oh, is that one of those amusement parks in the States?"

 

They glared at me, but I had absolutely no idea what they meant. Seriously, none. I just sat there with a puzzled expression until my wife kicked me and whispered, "They went to Israel!"

 

Somehow, I haven't been invited back to visit them when her parents were around since. I'm hoping the lack of invites will hold for comfirmation and communions.

 

chansen's picture

chansen

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Kimmio wrote:
We had a bible in the house- but I just remembered that a hard cover copy of The Evolution of Man was prominently displayed. And my dad used to subscribe to Time/ Life collections of all sorts of books I would flip through.

 

If I want to make my daughter an atheist, having her read the bible is probably the best way.

 

I don't know why atheist groups are so against the Gideons. I took that little red book home, thumbed through it, and thought it was simultaneously the dumbest and most boring thing I had ever read.

 

Kimmio's picture

Kimmio

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When I was in elementary school we read from that little red Gideon Bible after morning announcements. The principal would read it over the PA. That was a public school too. Until about 1982 or so. Actually, I seem to remember beginning with the OT and going all the way through but I do remember the books we were given were red. Maybe I'm confusing that with my pocket dictionary. ;) seriously though - we were given Bibles and read from them every morning.

waterfall's picture

waterfall

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Part of the reason I asked is because my father, who was an anglican priest and my uncle who was a United church minister, were both raised by an atheist father and an agnostic mother. If my father were alive today he would be in his 90's, so to be raised by atheists was somewhat unusual in his day. Growing up as a PK, I knew very little about the Bible. My parents never pushed belief onto any of us kids but I was forced to go to church, which I hated. It wasn't until I was in my 30's that my journey towards Christ officially occurred. It slowly happened for my siblings in their 20's. Even today all of us are amazed that we knew so little about the Bible and we were raised by a minister.I didn't learn how to pray until I was in my 30's and at first it embarrassed me. I joined Wondercafe to hear the Bible explained and the different viewpoints that a minister in church doesn't always have the time to answer and I found myself gravitating to reigious sermons on the radio. I had read all the best selling self help gurus igniting the market place with their wonderful insights and yet nothing held a steady truth for me like the Bible has.

 

So, I guess this leads up to wondering if belief in God is always something lurking in our background waiting to be ignited. Does an atheist have to squash it, or is there actually nothing there at all for you? It also makes me wonder if faith can be cyclical within families and societies. Do atheistic families continue from generation to generation? Anyway, just thinking out loud

 

 

chansen's picture

chansen

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I was in grade 5 in 1982, so maybe readings were made, but I don't remember them. I can still recite the Lord's Prayer, so they managed to drill that in to me, but I stopped reciting with the class later in elementary school. I just stood there, eyes open. It never meant anything to me. At some point, I recognized it was hogwash, so I stopped participating. No one bothered me about it. Then, one year, they stopped doing it. I didn't miss it.

 

chansen's picture

chansen

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waterfall wrote:

Part of the reason I asked is because my father, who was an anglican priest and my uncle who was a United church minister, were both raised by an atheist father and an agnostic mother. If my father were alive today he would be in his 90's, so to be raised by atheists was somewhat unusual in his day. Growing up as a PK, I knew very little about the Bible. My parents never pushed belief onto any of us kids but I was forced to go to church, which I hated. It wasn't until I was in my 30's that my journey towards Christ officially occurred. It slowly happened for my siblings in their 20's. Even today all of us are amazed that we knew so little about the Bible and we were raised by a minister.I didn't learn how to pray until I was in my 30's and at first it embarrassed me. I joined Wondercafe to hear the Bible explained and the different viewpoints that a minister in church doesn't always have the time to answer and I found myself gravitating to reigious sermons on the radio. I had read all the best selling self help gurus igniting the market place with their wonderful insights and yet nothing held a steady truth for me like the Bible has.

 

So, I guess this leads up to wondering if belief in God is always something lurking in our background waiting to be ignited. Does an atheist have to squash it, or is there actually nothing there at all for you? It also makes me wonder if faith can be cyclical within families and societies. Do atheistic families continue from generation to generation? Anyway, just thinking out loud

 

I don't think we have enough historical information on atheist families. Generationally speaking, they were an anomaly until more recently.

 

Certainly, there has been an explosion of atheists in the past 20 years or so. Kids get labelled with the faith of their parents early on, and it takes a conscious decision to break a cycle of religious adherence in a family.

 

Will our kids turn back to religion? I sincerely doubt it, but it could happen. Is Jesus due back soon? If that happens, I'll have no choice but to believe myself. But with the current evidence, and with science education so much better than it used to be, with kids like my daughter testing hypotheses in kindergarten, I just don't see it.

 

Kimmio's picture

Kimmio

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You really didn't know? Funny, that just reminded me of how my great aunt used to talk about visiting "the old country". She meant the UK. Although she was born and raised in Canada. I remember asking her what the old country is. But I thought most westerners knew what Holy Land refers to. I guess not if you haven't been exposed much to religion. How would you?

chemgal's picture

chemgal

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Kimmio wrote:
When I was in elementary school we read from that little red Gideon Bible after morning announcements. The principal would read it over the PA. That was a public school too. Until about 1982 or so. Actually, I seem to remember beginning with the OT and going all the way through but I do remember the books we were given were red. Maybe I'm confusing that with my pocket dictionary. ;) seriously though - we were given Bibles and read from them every morning.

 

That's a little weird.  I went to a protestant school for a little less than 2 years, and we never did that.  Nothing like that happened in public school.  The red bibles were handed out, but I think we had to have permission slip from our parents to recieve one.  I wasn't in school in 82 though.

revjohn's picture

revjohn

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Hi chansen,

 

Stories of parental rejection, for whatever reason, are heartbraking.  That a parent would choose to love a belief more than their child boggles my mind.

 

chansen wrote:

So, what advice would a UCCan member give to a neighbour kid who's family belongs to a strict evangelical church, and  wants to tell his parents that he just doesn't believe? Is there a better way to go about it?

 

If you will pardon the religious imagery, "count the cost".

 

For every decision we make in our lives there will be a cost and there will be a benefit.  Will the cost outweigh the benefit?  If so, now is not the time to come out.

 

One could presumeably start to ease their way out.  How might that be done?  Move from the strich evangelistic Church to one that is not so strictly evangelistic.  There will be a cost to that.  It will not be as severe as the cost of coming out immediately.  Plus it has the added benefit of feeding into the strict evangelistic hatred of Chirstians who are not strict evangelists.

 

The strict evangelistic parents who will undoubtedly have a very low opinion of the less strictly evangelistic Church will be fearful that it will encourage their child to abandon the Christian faith so that in a year or so when the child eventually does come out most anger will be directed at the less strictly evangelist church for failing their son while they may only be sad for and disappointed with their son's newly claimed atheism.

 

The downside to attending a less strictly evangelistic Church to the budding atheist is that it presents the problem of not all Christians being so tightly wound.  Sure there will still be some belief issues but that will not come with accompanying hellfire and brimstone.  If it does, it is still too strictly evangelistic and not far enough removed from the origial parental faith to make coming out safe.

 

So if the neighbour's kid rang the door and asked me my advice about a similar problem I would definitely be inquiring about his/her support systems and whether or not those systems could tolerate her/him suddenly being out on the street.  Not only that I would be inquiring about their emotional well-being and how such shunning from their parents would impact upon them.

 

If I felt after getting all that information that they could actually survive the ordeal of coming out I would tell them it will be rough and it is their choice to make.  If I felt that they couldn't survive I would be suggesting alternative pathways out such as above.

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

Kimmio's picture

Kimmio

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chemgal wrote:

Kimmio wrote:
When I was in elementary school we read from that little red Gideon Bible after morning announcements. The principal would read it over the PA. That was a public school too. Until about 1982 or so. Actually, I seem to remember beginning with the OT and going all the way through but I do remember the books we were given were red. Maybe I'm confusing that with my pocket dictionary. ;) seriously though - we were given Bibles and read from them every morning.

 

That's a little weird.  I went to a protestant school for a little less than 2 years, and we never did that.  Nothing like that happened in public school.  The red bibles were handed out, but I think we had to have permission slip from our parents to recieve one.  I wasn't in school in 82 though.

I don't know if it was just my school or the whole district or whether permission slips were involved. I do remember it happening. In grade 5, I think it was, actually maybe younger, a Jewish girl in our class was excused in the morning, until after the bible reading. I remember because that's how I first learned that there were Jewish people. She was the first Jewish person I was introduced to I think- but I didn't know anything about her family's religion until then.

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waterfall

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We used to have religious education as part of our education for one day a week. I used to slink down into my seat as far as I could because I didn't know any of the answers they asked. LOL!

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chansen

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I have to run out and bring Carter and mom home, but I really want to address that post, John. I think you make some excellent points there.

 

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Kimmio

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Chemgal- in BC we don't have a public Catholic school system. Public school is just public school. There are private Catholic and Christian schools but parents pay money to send their kids there.

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chemgal

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Kimmio wrote:
I don't know if it was just my school or the whole district or whether permission slips were involved. I do remember it happening. In grade 5, I think it was, actually maybe younger, a Jewish girl in our class was excused in the morning, until after the bible reading. I remember because that's how I first learned that there were Jewish people. She was the first Jewish person I was introduced to I think- but I didn't know anything about her family's religion until then.

 

That's sad she had to leave.  I don't recall any Jewish students at the protestant school, but there were Muslims, and probably students of other religions that just don't stand out in my memory.  I can't recall a time when we did anything where they actually left.  I would guess there was the Lord's prayer or something like that at assemblies, but I think they just didn't participate but were there.

 

I do remember in public school some students didn't attend assemblies because they weren't allowed to hear O Canada.  There were also the students who couldn't have any of the worksheets with witches on them at Halloween.

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Kimmio

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Her parents had her excused- so there must have been permission slips. She didn't have to leave otherwise. It was explained that her parents had her excused. Then, the next question was "why?" that's how I learned she was Jewish. I'm a little surprised looking back. I don't think the bible should have been read in school and split kids up like that. When we were that young- no one cared about who was what religion at school- until all of a sudden someone stood out. Why do that to kids? I am surprised that if there were permission slips, that the majority of parents (including mine apparently) signed them. The bible readings and Lord's Prayer at assemblies, stopped by Grade 6 though.

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Azdgari

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kaythecurler wrote:

I wonder why these kids decide they have to tell their parents something they already know will cause hassles?  Don't most teens withhold information from their parents if the sharing is likely to cause them to freak out?

Consider if you were a homosexual teenager, and your parents repeatedly tried setting you up with people of the opposite sex, expecting at least some enthusiasm from you.  That'd be pretty awkward, wouldn't it?  There's value in parents knowing who their children really are, especially from the child's perspective.  Parents, even parents against some category a child belongs to, aren't purely the child's enemy.  Or at least, a child doesn't wish them to be, and is unlikely to be eager to believe them to be.  This isn't about hiding what we do from our parents - that's normal.  It's about hiding who we are, fearing that our parents may truly cease to love us if they truly got to know us.

kaythecurler wrote:

I had a friend who was expected to attend church every Sunday.  She didn't 'believe' anymore but attended and spent the time meditating.  Once she was able to leave home she quit all connection with church.  Her parents didn't like it but she repeatedly pointed out that she was now an adult and could do as she wished.

What would have been the penalty imposed by her parents for having come out earlier?

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chemgal

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Kimmio, when I attended Protestant school it's because there was no public school.  I know there was one area that got a public school in the last 5 years or so,  It was since I moved here.  I wish we didn't have non-private Catholic schools, it creates a silly duplicate of programs when schools are already overextended.  More options available within the public system would be better IMO.

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Kimmio

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I don't remember anyone being excused from O Canada or Halloween crafts. Maybe there were but I wasn't aware of it.

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chemgal

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I do remember in public school being allowed in to sing Christmas carols in the mornings before classes started.  It was partially a good excuse to get us out of the cold, usually we had to play outside until the bell rang.  It wasn't just the secular songs.  It's the most overtly religious thing I really remember occurring in school.  I know there were students whose parents wouldn't allow them to attend, I don't know if they had a room to read in or if they were outside.

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Kimmio

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I learned the Lord's Prayer for the first time in elementary school assemblies.

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Kimmio

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Christmas carol words never meant much to me then. We sang them in school. They were just familiar, warm fuzzy, sounds.

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Kimmio

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We put on Joseph and the Amazing Techicolour Dreamcoat as a school play when I was in Grade 2 (the whole school k-7). I sang in the choir! Talk about religious themes in public school. It was a mostly middle class white (culturally) protestant suburban neighbourhood we were in at that time- not all but predominantly. It didn't occur to me until now how religious that seems for public school. Because it seems to me that kids were not being brought up particularly religiously observant and were fairly multi culturally minded at that time but likely much more so today. Heck, it's weird because it doesn't seem to me like anyone was pious- at that same time everybody's parents were getting divorced and dating everybody else's parents! What a mess! Maybe the older teachers were trying to send the parents back to church.

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