This is called Moses secret code, and there are groups who believe it:

When Moses confronted a burning bush he asked God's name and got the reply "I am that I am" (The first naming of God?)

And the BIG secret is a lost comma..."I Am That, I Am

...that God is everywhere and in all things... ALL things...

Those who believe this say "I am that" and then inhale while intoning "I am"

I find this an interesting conjecture/belief...abject nonsense, or profound truth?

What say ye?

Neither Hebrew or Greek had punctuation marks.

But they did, surely, have pauses in their speech.  Which brings up a question...who was writing all of this down?

I think most of the AT legends, and the NT legends as well, were told and re-told orally, many times, before they were finally written down—by scribes of the school that did the re-telling! I think it is a mistake to take them literally.

I think the Kabbalah, the ancient Judaic school of mysticism, gives us a better answer on how the ancient Jewish mystics perceived God. "God is one," the Kabbalah teaches, and this is pretty much what Moses was trying to say. But the Kabbalah also teaches the mystical practices that enable someone to experience the oneness which is God. I think both Moses and Jesus, among other Jewish prophets, were mystics who experienced their oneness with God. Hence Jesus' "I and the father are one."

Are you sure you mean "literally" there?  Because the oral histories told in my rural community, for example, are meant literally.  They probably aren't accurate, but they're definitely literal.

Well, they may be meant to be taken literally, but who takes them for absolute truth? I think almost everyone takes them with the proverbial grain of salt. They are legends or stories based on historical events, not accurate histories.

What's worse, Hebrew didn't even have vowels. Lots of room for misinterpretation and mistranslation.

Totally with you here, Arminius.  I just think people use "not literal" too freely, and often incorrectly.

Hi Happy Genius,

I fall into the abject nonsense camp.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Lately I've been reading about the Ugaritic text. Since this text has been discovered many of the words and phrases in the Bible have been explained through these texts.

So I'll offer this website as one explanation because it's too much to type.

http://www.thenazareneway.com/I%20AM%20THAT%20I%20AM.htm

And this website to help give the importance of the Ugaritic Text for helping to translate the Bible.

http://www.theology.edu/ugarbib.htm

Fascinating stuff, waterfall! Thanks!

You're welcome, I'm finding it fascinating too.

You know HG, before you posted this thread, I was thinking about posting about the lack of punctuation in the original texts - the ways in which what was meant to be understood either gets bent out of shape by people over time to something far from what was intended- or perhaps as a 'living word' shapes our understanding as it should, as it evolves it comes full circle around- and we have to discern which is which.

The best new testament example of the punctuation thingy (let alone wrong definition of Peter) is Matthew 16: 18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it

There was no punctuation ... for in vocal translation these  people were so excited telling these myths that they were out of breath and hairless ... like the poor lamb that it was eventually enscribed upon in Hebrew's crypt ...

Even King James found it very devilishly ambiguous leading to attempts to disambiguation ... for the British Royalty couldn't deal with indeterminantes like emotions and travelling thoughts either! Like Caser they wishes all things material leading to mind over matter in reciprocal dimensions or what we call the archtype of the plastic mind-brain connection ... a sort of communion of unknown parameters ... which shows us what we know ...

There are those that wwe lie and expand upon what they don't know however as a form of hope! This leads to unknown belief systems ... why we should study alternate beliefs as suggested in god's word but few go that profoundly into what they'd rather take superficially ... shallow? Like a flat out lamb's kyne ... the inque'n thereon can blurr ... 

Why doesn't anyone pray and ask God if that's how the Divine still self-identifies, as "I Am?"

We are modern people, and authority is a problem.  Trust yourselves.  Risk it.

If the United Church is still Trinitarian, then the "personhood" of God should still be important.

Hi Gray Owl, welcome back!

Yes, to me this ancient definition of God is still valid: I AM (the totality of being) 

I Yam what I'yam with a great abstract of a Canan Ba'aL through the bellie ... a great abstract of something incomplete ...

Some would say this gutless wonder a gross spectacle ... a rapture able sight to say the least of a naked soul ... invisible to the mortal.

There are some mortals that believe they see it ... because of great faith ... and then there it was goan ...

Mind plae; like messing with words ... on the farce ID! Those that depend on reality don't catch it ...

Thanks, Arminius.  Good to be back.

I really don't have any issues with Moses' experience on Mt. Sinai.  Perhaps the question should be why do people have an issue with God self-identifying as "I Am?" 

Part of it is a modern malady.  The specific consciousness of God is a taboo.  Because of the way the Church used God's name to dominate society, society has been in a big reaction against it since the 1960's.  No one wants to be dominated, moralized or threatened by salvation.  And it's been nice being 'free' of religious controls, just like it felt good getting rid of kings and aristocrats.  'God' was associated with 'Empire,' and for Church survival it had to distance itself from the God it was selling.

The other part is historical-critical method applied to the Bible.  Christians thought it was literally true, written down while it was happening.  So Christian identity has been shaken to the core for 200 years.  The Church has had to defend itself against science and secularism, and it couldn't dictate reality on its own terms any longer.  It's been in survival mode for the past fifty years, so God can only be 'love', without the dictator's threatening arbitrary mind and power over our lives that was once taught.

But that's an institutional problem, which, like all institutions, is divorce from actual reality.  It has always been ironic that the Church burned more mystics at the stake than listened to them, because they were a threat to the intellectual and political hierarchy. 

It is also ironic that the modern Church has adopted a secular intellectual framework.  It's called existential-phenomenology.  It is quite an amazing thought process that overemphasizes everyone's unique perspective on reality while making a taboo of what we hold in common.  With it you can dissolve anything anyone says to prevent it from being threatening as authority.  Commonly it is called 'post-modernism,' where any whiff of 'authority' is quickly dispatched intellectually.

But despite modern humans problems with the specific consciousness of God, "I Am" is still around if anyone wishes to make contact, still going by the same name, still the One who had His Son crucified, and still loves us.  We DID need the last fifty years to shake off the Church's past and to discover the non-specific consciousness of God in the form of 'love,' so "I Am" went into the closet.  And there is a cost when you come out of the closet.  But how has the Church been doing in denial?

Is half of God enough?  I'm sure "I Am" has an opinion on that.  Wouldn't it be cool to find out?

Good to see you posting again Gray Owl.

Hi there Grey Owl. I like how you think, and write! Very interesting points. I'll read this again tomorrow to see if I can get a better understanding of it before attempting a succinct comment on the content of it.

"dictator's threatening arbitrary mind"?

Is this an icon of that still small voicce of God's thinking side ... for shame, fore shame of aboriginal thought ... or beta yet ... ancient wisdom?

One has to drift back a bit in history and ponder the official lines to realize that a man following emotional lines alone must be off a bit from what's all to be known. This is an outside stance on how it is at present ... and Leo Buscalia has it right in metaphor:

"A man that goes by the word of god, monolithically, must be crazy if he can't see into it!"

One should balance their wildfire emotions with some alien thoughts ... isn't that kohl and refreshing? Sort of like sects is good for separating a'm'n from reality for a bit ... just imagine! The only way out of reality ... and into the abstract ... defined as what isn't complete!

Who dah th'que it? Very few as they just follow the flow of the paradigm, not knowing is a popular trend ... Classic Wisdom bean left out metaphorically as a rare case ... a peculiar form of oligarch ... which means few ... if we could only know all these ambiguities ... we could disambiguate! 

The implications are forever infinite ... as mortal just can't gather ... put "eme" together?

Very good points Gra Yowl ... gives me the hoots ... rifts? Assist sin breaking up the present line of what is considered wisdom ... and isn't ... a phonetic flip like reality when passing into the plastic abstract of the imaginary mind ... mire myth?

On 2nd thought ... without the myth how'd we know? The mindless enigma of mortal thought ... a limited f(unction)?

Gray Owl have you ever read any of Prof. Aaron James works on the fire pit of As Sholes ... a concoction I may have intentionally mispelled to cover up for the vernacular wisdom ... it is commonly unseen like the theme of Anna Karenina ... verti geist as it dizzies the fixed head of institution! Such fire puts are never seen until goan, prior to that they are dark functions ... one needs a fire carrier as well as water carrior for balance or the hole thing could burn up ...

Brings tears to my eyes ... the innocence of mortals ... or the quantity of abstract stuff ... that which they don't know ... then Prof James hypothesis is that  rectilinear beliefs don't know what they are until beyond themselves ... just as OBI's that mortal thoughts can't get their head around ... they fail to extend themselves do to white washing ... or is that brae'n wash ... catharsis as in emotional effects? Will that wash?

God made assholes not to know themselves for gods not wanted assholes in heaven for a great period of time ... time being also an indeterminate. Did you know that Romans and jews are the only people that can't grasp the concept of complex things (indeterminates) that include nothing and infinite? Provides two forms in which a soul can camuflage itself ... your choice of where to bury thoughts! A çhitty expression on the aboriginal Bang, Ego, or report with space ... a small whisper in time?

Are you presuming that god speaks to you? A little humble pie is in order Shaver.

Redviolin ...

Is God an all encompass'n dimension in some essence of th'aught?

Then I am not completely shunned as declared by many religious folk that tell me I'yam nothing and going to 'elle for thinking outside their limitations (mortal-like). From a fringe view the physical world takes on a humour all it's own ... like spirit in old Anglo-Saxon ... a bloody aweful thing that interferes with monarchist's plans!

I thank god for my we piece of all-that-is ... an infinite gift of God to expand upon? isn't that weird in a fixed regime? Fixed; consider the corruption on Ottawa, Washington and else where in the realm of authority and Peter Principle ... wher mortals rise to incompetence ... an odd trasition given the binary commands that should indicate balance?

Explain instability to be again ... as humanity wavers on the edge of whatever? Some say we will become something else again ... a pure thought? Isn't that the devil of a thing to say about d'athe ... hermuenetics? The sealed following ... a dark pool, some say kohl, or even ghuol in other tongues that which rises out of the earth and draws you! Creates fertilizer for another cycle ... fecundity ... derived from fundus ... a hollow organ or just Pans' Pipe'n ... worm hole in space? Use great caution as it could cause loss of thought ... as a mire icon of god presence that extends infinitely ... hard to escape? True compassion is like that 2's ID'd!

Such is plainly de deuced or the deux in Caduces .. a double sprung balance for dampening or otherwise whet'n the soul? It is a fiery device in aboriginal form ... a'priori? Sort of like the Phoenix Conjecture ... rise of a flighty thing ... raw sects that the parts don't know nut'n about words of L'uv! Stoop ID is sometimes good if you wish to be led into that state as temporal bent ... metaphysical process?

Hi Happy Genius--You posted-- find this an interesting conjecture/belief...abject nonsense, or profound truth?

______________________________________

What say ye?-- As you mite gusse I believe ,Happy. When God was working with Moses getting him ready ,to go get His people. He told Moses through down your staff.. Which Moses done. When it hit the ground , GOD changed it into a snake. Well Moses started running. God had to call him back. Now if that is not a story of how a real man, would acted .  Moses knew what the snake could do , an wanted nothing to do with it. I wonder how many took note that GOD was now, going to use a weapon, That satan had used.But God help "the evil that got in this snakes way.As we see later in Egypt later, as it eats two other snakes of evil. Do you understand the meaning of this?Later Moses put a snake on a post, for a cure of sickness, can you understand the meaning of this? These things are easy to understand. Now you wish to understand , I AM. This could be a bit harder , I wish you luck.   airclean33

"Later Moses put a snake on a post"

Caduces ... AC33 did you see that as hidden meaning? In modern languages it has to do with healing people from the evil of thinking ... a romantic idealism ... still conserved by the unthinking today!

Then is Moses derived from the Egyptian Mos, the Greek Muses, or something else the romans burned? Perhaps it is eMe-Oz's the power of the paradigm ... or the collective thing! Is the collective unconscious by religious decree?

Avarice wouldn't have such multifaceted understanding of a monolithic word would it? Then understanding must be of the devil ... and heh must be nailed down ... thus gods lighter side of intellectual ability became sublime ... contrary to those that believe powerful inflexable law ... then both Oz and judai'n refer to primal power ... like the solar wind diminishing the powers of the night ... when souls find themselves screwed into not being cognizant.

These were spirits sometimes known a succubusand incubus depending on genre like Miqual and Gabriel. Be careful of the latter of you could be sucked into the unknow'n state ... like jack-screwed up in preparation for the dunk'n ... like duffus!

If we are not to know why does the bible say that god said to teach his children and the bit over the millstone, etc. Is it possible to teach God's offspring by being a pain ... thus the pathe-logical nature of wisdom ... somethings gotta Deis! Thus that dazed sensation in OBI ... a near miss ...

Can you biblically debate learning or is that untenable as god? Do you understand untenable AC33? WEBSTER it ... can you believe there were three Websters ... Willam, Daniel and Noah a devilsh connection to profits of understanding that counters corrupted or redacted law? Thats' almost biblical in stature right ... upstanding like et'ix that have gone astray with thought ... there're out there if you look arround at our world based on avarice of some type ... even trying to oppress thinking with roman crap ... can't you see the sparrow under the pilings? Divers chit! Something to pick through very cautiously ... for wasted wisdom ... what the rising desires discard!

The sacred lesson: don't wish for control ... be humble and keep your head down write in pure form of delusionary desire, false satire? Different from faux-Gods-ache ... something for the wee people's humble benefit? In the mean ... they should keep their head down and create their individual myths ... gets the devil all fired up about what mortals don't know ... the unconscious abstract? Such is a scared chore (sacred?) to dig into with some profundity ... pro fundus? The tube worm conjecture and we have plenty of space for it ... as it glows !

Hi redviolin: welcome to WonderCafe!

I think God speaks to all of us, if only we had ears to hear. God wrote himself most eloquently into its creation. That's where we can hear, see, touch, smell and read God.

The trouble with not hearing God is that we perceive it to be a supernatural cosmic ghost who stands outside the universe and, like a political cosmic dictator, deals out favours to a chosen few who, like Moses and Aaron, belong to the God party and are high enough on the hierarchy.

Their idols are sliver and gold, the work of men's hands.

They have mouths,but they speak not; eyes have they, but they see not;

They have ears, but they hear not; noses have they, but they smell not;

They have hands, but they handle not; feet have they, but they walk not; neither speak they through their throat.

They that make them are like unto them; so is every one that trusteth in them.

Psalm 115:4-8

What I find most fascinating about the Burning Bush epiphany is God's evasiveness.   Moses wants the mandate of an authorizing name that reveals God's essence; and God reples, "Tell them I will be whatever I will be has sent you (Exodus 3:6)."  That's the nuance of the Hebrew that is usually translated, "I am that I am."   In other words, don't presume to grasp my essence with a symbolic name.  I can be whatever I choose to be to you.  But I reserve the right to be whatever I will be to people of others cultures as well.  I can disclose myself through their myths and symbols, too.  God is similarly evasive about"His" name in the epiphanies to Jacob and Gideon's parents as well.  The Burning Bush epiphany paves the way for the teaching that God's ways and thooughts are not our ways and thoughts and encourages obedience to God within the framework of acknowledging the mystery of God.