Darrel Tessier's picture

Darrel Tessier

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Was Jesus even a Christian?

RE Christianity really should be called Paulinity! Did Jesus of Nazareth really want to start a new religion? Not sure. Or, as one little old Irish lady used to say in our Bible study group, ... "Jesus was a good Jewish boy gone bad!"  Was Jesus even a Christian???? This the way I see it, so far! All religions are a construct by some one. There seemed to have been many "Christianities" after the Teacher/Preacher/Prophet (Son of God? God? Logos?) Jesus of Nazareth lived on earth. But the historical development of these religions are only "maps" that point to a certain "territory" - the territory of some huge mystery which is existence, being, humanity, the universe,  etc. Maps are our way of explaining our experience of the world around us. Science is also a map; maybe atheism, too, is a map. All maps are interesting and usually have something to offer. I think as long as some one keeps open, asks questions, continues to search for answers and doesn't get the map mixed up with the territory - no problem!  I like my map but I'm interested in others' maps. What do others say? I am a Christian but sometimes not sure exactly what that means. Maybe I'm a heretic???

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Rowan's picture

Rowan

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The short answer to that would be no, Jesus was not a Christian, he was a Jew.  As for starting a new religion he was likely trying to reform Judaism.

Arminius's picture

Arminius

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Yes, Darrel, Christianity should be named Paulinity because Paul, not Jesus, was the founder of the religion that became known as Christianity. Moreover, proclaiming Jesus as "the Christ" also originated with Paul. If the religion were named after Jesus, it would have to be named "Jesuinian."

 

What we know about Jesus is not documented with any historical certainty. Although most historians don't doubt the existence of a historical Jesus, Paul, not Jesus, is the well documented founder of Christianity. And Paul made Jesus Christ into the figurehead of the religion that he (Paul) founded. Jesus may not have agreed to that. It seems more likely, as Rowan said, that Jesus intended to reform Judaism rather than start a new religion.

Alex's picture

Alex

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Neither Paul nor Jesus started Christianity. Christianity was formed in a process that took years and that process is still on going.

That said, the empty tomb is the defining feature of Christiainty to many. Do you know which person that all 4 gospel place at the empty tomb, and to see Jesus resurrected? After all even if no single person started Christianity we know when it was born, when the rock was rolled away and an empty tomb was revealed.

Alex's picture

Alex

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Btw Both Jesus and Paul were heretics. So if you are one you are in good company.

spiritbear's picture

spiritbear

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I wonder how useful the question is. A Christian is a follower of Christ, so how can you follow yourself?  As relevant as asking if the Buddha was a buddhist, or Confucius was a Confucian. Maybe the question to ask is how Christian Paul was. He definitely got one thing right - that love is at the centre of the Christian life. And then there were all those political issues to deal with that Jesus didn't have to - like keeping bickering congregations together and dealing with a laundry list of petty issues that was damaging the spiritual lives of the Christ followers.   Maybe that's why he formulated the Christology that he did. But Paul himself admitted that he was not Christ. As for me, when one is at odds with the other, I side with Christ. And I'm not so sure that means that I have to accept all of Paul's view of Christ either.

Arminius's picture

Arminius

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Alex wrote:
Neither Paul nor Jesus started Christianity. Christianity was formed in a process that took years and that process is still on going. That said, the empty tomb is the defining feature of Christiainty to many. Do you know which person that all 4 gospel place at the empty tomb, and to see Jesus resurrected?

 

Mary Magdalene?

 

Now there's a worthy founder of Christianity!

 

 

Hi Alex:

 

Of course, defining Christianity is an ongoing process. All religion, and all human culture, is continuously created and re-created. Many of us modern Christians regard ourselves as part of this process and re-define and re-create Christianity anew.

Dcn. Jae's picture

Dcn. Jae

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Rowan wrote:

The short answer to that would be no, Jesus was not a Christian, he was a Jew.  As for starting a new religion he was likely trying to reform Judaism.

 

Yes, I agree.

Alex's picture

Alex

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Yup it was Mary. the only person at the empty tomb according to John and the only person that all of the other gospels also place at the beginning.

 

From the Musical Jesus Christ Superstar, Mary sings of her love.

 

 

InannaWhimsey's picture

InannaWhimsey

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Alex wrote:
Neither Paul nor Jesus started Christianity. Christianity was formed in a process that took years and that process is still on going. That said, the empty tomb is the defining feature of Christiainty to many. Do you know which person that all 4 gospel place at the empty tomb, and to see Jesus resurrected? After all even if no single person started Christianity we know when it was born, when the rock was rolled away and an empty tomb was revealed.

 

So it was akin to Schrodinger's Cat, when the rock was rolled away, the wave function of Jesus' story collapsed...or did it uncollapse, in a reverse Schrodinger Cat?  Who was that Illuminated One, INRI, Invisible College member who rolled back that rock?  I wouldn't be surprised if it involved a blue police box :3

 

(and indeed, with each Christian, they create the whole sacred cycle anew)

 

Every time I hear that song, "I don't know how to love him", I cry -- so beautiful :3

Darrel Tessier's picture

Darrel Tessier

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So "WE" (those who identify themselves as Christians) are the founders of Xtianty! Could this then be a dynamic kind of thing? Are we then constructing God in our own image? Maybe there is truth in that. But if we are made in God's image (not sure what that means exactly) then we reflect that image back its God image - ing God! Hmmmm????

Darrel Tessier's picture

Darrel Tessier

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Hmmmmm.....  Strong is The Force here!

Alex's picture

Alex

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InannaWhimsey wrote:

Alex wrote:
Neither Paul nor Jesus started Christianity. Christianity was formed in a process that took years and that process is still on going. That said, the empty tomb is the defining feature of Christiainty to many. Do you know which person that all 4 gospel place at the empty tomb, and to see Jesus resurrected? After all even if no single person started Christianity we know when it was born, when the rock was rolled away and an empty tomb was revealed.

 

So it was akin to Schrodinger's Cat, when the rock was rolled away, the wave function of Jesus' story collapsed...or did it uncollapse, in a reverse Schrodinger Cat?  Who was that Illuminated One, INRI, Invisible College member who rolled back that rock?  I wouldn't be surprised if it involved a blue police box :3

 

(and indeed, with each Christian, they create the whole sacred cycle anew)

 

 

Cycle is a good word. The empty tomb can also represent the ability to refill the tomb. Space that God creates for us to recreate our lives.  Also When Mary asks Jesus what she should do, he tells her to go back to where it all began,  Galilee. and tell everyone about the empty tomb.

naturally that is not what she does first. She runs away.

WaterBuoy's picture

WaterBuoy

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Is there light (IC) in a closed tome?

 

One must unravel the metaphor, like Mary Magdalene as a pillar of salt to the OT Mother of the Lot ... Aesous ... mother of god ... wisdom? Yah have to love to learn! especially anachronisms ... out of place and time .. sort of like hysterical myths ... some can't find the plasma ... bloody odd fluid eh?

 

Then there are a lot of dead soles ... nut'n to do but roam ... especially at night disturbs the whole hommoe ... shek? It's a reflective place when bared ... nothin but a bonne' white ... like the scull eh ... home of the pool of thought!

 

Is it all church polity?

 

 

From a file called  DNA'ught 'Ve Complex Idea (poe'L of strings)? No wonder the NT tells us to test all things ... but you know mortals, difficult to change ... without the virtue of time ...

 

Church Poe Lidée …

That’s fixation, or institution in which something’s ensnarled …

Entanglement Theory; inde’s crypt?

It’s string of th’aught where none was allowed bi-god …

As something can not be created without an absolute opposite …

Opposing field, essential God that’s spiritual like energy!

Comes and goes like willis!

If chi-ite feels alloy’n …

You’re dead to love, Mortiςηa (morté*Ka in English spin) …

And the light goes on!

Consider that somewhere; church is love …

And Eire, the moment tells us that the church, or structure …

Is mostly hate, or heh bruin sanè …

Ancient archetype for dispossession …

Of thinking Dae Mons …

Swelling words, bust in/out as hieros gamma, dark code; sacred word?

Nothing moor than murky eternal humour to amues the gods …

Alon gamaus whey, that’s Light heh, threshold of pure understanding in the fall!

Cos Moe Logos drop out, dark holes ‘n the parchment?

Smudge’n or smoking the truth …

Sos it wouldn’t be clear indication …

Of pagans knowing anything except integral de semi-Nate’ form!

You have to put it all together; differences inclusive …

IT’sah struggle, or biblical Job in the rib’n, getting around separation …

Why Reuben is symbol of dropout of heir space …

The separate aurá funnel, dais …

Swirling into night as time passes …

But that’s an unconscious dimension to the isolated creature …

Omi nous?

The Shadow power of mire, earth as consumer of Light!

Semi conductor status in that we shrug off a great deal …

As impertinent details!

Like gae Liam in Carina …

Basis of crystal radiation in which you can hear …

Strange disturbances in Eyore ‘ed …

The Ha or Hè being silent above, mined you!

Be very protective about Wii green stuff growing behind …

You rears as disciple of experience!

Some never encounter such moving …

Unseen critters as aboriginal forms …

Mêmè, or spiritual Rae Collins …

Cool gheist from pas tæs visitor; haunting noodle …

Genoa ‘n specialty, some call imagination and yet …

They do not believe in such un-formed phenomena …

As cultured projections on the flat out …

Why creations expression is amour fuss …

Disturbed in writ!

You cannot bellï*Eve such hoers’ite?

Perhaps you have no Complex Capacity for folding things away …

Like ripples in space of intellect, un-scene fecund word …

That outsider, myth creature that looks over your shoulder …

Watching his-Tory, like Jaimes Joi’ς in alien tongues …

Six Tiye fey’ve under the power of Penne …

Causes great codes for God’s fugacity, blast from the past …

To figure onœn expansion of ET heir IO’ſ tuff, Eros ‘ve Charon, men tale flowering?

Fred Duckett's picture

Fred Duckett

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When Paul and the disciples  first started started teaching they called it the way.

Act 11:25 states that they were first called Christians in Antioch. So it was the Greeks who attached the name Christians, to those who were and are trying to teach and live the way Jesus taught.

seeler's picture

seeler

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I tend to think of a Christian as being Christ-like.  Jesus was Christ-like.

 

But no, Jesus was not a Christian.  The name (word, title) was not invented during his lifetime on earth.  He was a Jew living and teaching within the Jewish religion.  His followers became known as Christians.  Paul had a big hand in this - but perhaps the other disciples, Luke, Barnabas, Priscilla, and others had an influence too.

 

JRT's picture

JRT

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seeler wrote:

I tend to think of a Christian as being Christ-like.  Jesus was Christ-like.

 

I have met one person who seemed to me to be truly "Christ-like". He is a Hindu.

seeler's picture

seeler

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JRT - that's why I don't try to decide who is 'Christian' and who isn't. 

WaterBuoy's picture

WaterBuoy

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H in deux ... a parable of word ...

 

Did Christ act as a Ra'bi ... but outside the institutional mode as covenant of story ... since it was illegal to teach pagans intellectual stuff under Roman Decree (idée) thus the concept of idiom ... word of fabrication ... creation-ism for those that love to learn from between the lines in a tome ... a bo'que of the dead ... from which we derived the bible as ancient wisdom in alien word ... so help me goad ... like a shin (and foot, pedantry pud 'nta IT) the poeL disturbing the water as a naked kick off ... off-ending many ... those that didn't wish to know beyond the super pheshi alla'Tiye ... that's deep eh, or just tome in old words ... AEsæs best friend ... Thomas? Real people don't see ID until it's goan (Hindi for spiritual conversion, the passing of word)? Shadow if the off ended ... that' as is eh ... perhaps existentialism in the realm of the imaginary complex ... that's soul mon dark and alien to white peoples ... them's just carriers of the message and don understand a thing about harmony and song ... just de beit in words ... no dip Loam a Scie ... fecund lowlands! Bottom land ferme?

 

One must read the hole story in mire earth ... that's the lower end of African Rift ... where they found Lucy ... a devil of a thing to present to those fixed on the idea that humanity was only created 5000 years ago sic as it is ... un knowing ... emotional stage is just a start ... initiation of all things! I wouldn't even have writ this without a breath of desire --- II Timothy 3:16! Isn't timothy a kind of hay ... threshold into enlightenment for an awkward cow or some bull ... that's Ur on on top of the heap ... some come down is required for enlightenment ... the Christian Experience in the hole thing ... a dimple in all-that-is ... gods entertainment ... his gross children .. growing intensively in a mortal place without a clew? They need some sort of attachement and always make irregular decisions ... for the profit of it all? No just limited in nature ... by Roman idiom ... the word of god in La Tin cup ... just a sparkle and tinkle of the coine tongues ... common and often unknown to the flood! God help us give us a lift here eh ... like Levantine ... the stoop idee Tiye is too much to bare ... thsu the clased and mortal soul requiring cracking ... the story is then released! Is that crazy or what?

 

So help me god that's the Word ... inner story ... tall mud as pire NG! The dirt on creation Eire Mote ...

Fred Duckett's picture

Fred Duckett

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Matthew 16;16

Peter after being pushed by Jesus about who HE was. Identifies Him as the Christ, the son of the living God. So Jesus was the Christ not just Christ like.

I think that anyone who wants to be called a Christian should attempt to emulate Jesus.

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