oui's picture

oui

image

We are all one

Please take a small moment to enjoy this absolutely stunning video.

 

See video

Share this

Comments

Neo's picture

Neo

image

Oui, it says that the video is no longer available. Too bad. But in it's place I thought maybe people would enjoy this one: 

stardust's picture

stardust

image

Oui:

 

This is one of the most powerful videos I've ever seen. I sent it around and highly recommend that everyone watch it.

 

Neo: Its working. I clicked it on again to test it just now. I'm a bit skeptical about the cow.....

stardust's picture

stardust

image

Prayer Before an Old Oak Tree (by Brother Matthew)

 

Great Sister Ancient Oak Tree, I stand here in your presence,
and bow humbly to the mighty spirit,
that dwells deep within you.

 

How, long have you stood here, Great Sister Tree,
and what has this place seen?
Were you standing here, Great Sister Tree,
when the Nag Hammadi texts rose from the Egyptian sands?
Did your spirit rejoice to magnify the work of God here on Earth?
What was standing here, Great Sister Tree,
when people first looked up at the sky,
and dreamed of things beyond the stars?
What prayers did men and women say, Great Sister Tree,
the first time they prayed in this great forest?
Did they pray before you, as I am now?

Great Sister Tree, have you felt sorrow, as I have?
Did you weep to see your brother and sister trees
ripped from the earth to make way for highways of vanity?
Did your ancestors, great Sister Tree,
feel the earth shudder beneath them,
as the wood of the earth was forced to form a bonfire,
to burn the holy men and women of the Cathari,
sacrificial victims for hatred?

 

Did your ancestors, Great Sister Tree,
cry out from the weight as the wood of the earth,
was shaped into gallows
to destroy those who would not accept or conform?
Did they feel the singe of heat, Great Sister Tree,
when our Gnostic saint Priscillian was burned for his "heresies"?

Great Sister Tree,
have you communed with that tree-spirit
on whose branches hung the very savior of this world?
Did her branches scream in pain as she was sawed
and shaped into an instrument of torture
by the men of hatred, the religious leaders?

 

How did she feel?
Did she die inside as well?
Did she?

 

Or, great Sister Tree,
did she soften her branches,
and suspend the ancient rigor of her form,
and transform herself into a gentle burial shroud
for the One who loved, like no one else had ever loved?

Give her my regards, Great Sister Tree,
and my homage that I pay to her and you,
head bowed in honor of an Older Sister,
a partner with me in the work of salvation here on the Earth.

 

Stand tall, Great Sister Tree, until that time,
when the spirit inside you and the spirit inside me
shall rise from material form to be reunited
with those who burned and those who were forced to kindle,
with those who hanged and those upon which they hung,
united, forever, in the oneness of God, who made us,
who shaped our spirit from the fire of love.

 

Great Sister Tree, pray for me...

 

 

http://www.gnostic-church.org/prayer.htm

Arminius's picture

Arminius

image

Excellent video, oui! I'll e-mail it to some of my friends!

 

Interesting bit of news: corporations now have bigger decision making powers than countries!

 

Corporations are soulless entities; they are motivated soleley (not souleley :-) by the need to maximize profits. If corporations can't "incorporate" soulfulness (environmental and social responsibility), then we should get rid of them!

 

How do we get rid of them? Easy. Quit buying what they produce!

 

All My Relations,

 

Arminius

 

Arminius's picture

Arminius

image

Neo: Holy cow!

stardust's picture

stardust

image

Another video: About consumerism; done up really neat.

 

momsfruitcake's picture

momsfruitcake

image

oui, beautiful video.  so true.  i agree with arminius. we are the ones with the power.  we are the ones that feed the corporations.  money talks --- force them to listen.  investigate everything.  find out what your dollar is supporting.  sign petitions. buy local.  buy organic.  shop fair trade.  it is working.  things are changing.  as someone who has supported this  movement for almost a decade now, i've seen it first hand.

oui's picture

oui

image

Hi Neo

The link seems to be working, hopefully you can try again sometime, I think you'll like it.  And, hey, where's the beef?!

 

Glad you like it Stardust, momsfruitcake and Arminius.   The main speaker is Oren Lyons from the Onondaga Nation.   I love this quote from him:

 

"When we walk upon Mother Earth, we always plant our feet carefully because we know the faces of our future generations are looking up at us from beneath the ground.  We never forget them."

Punkins's picture

Punkins

image

Absolutely stunning.  There is immense power and truth behind these words that should really give everyone a reason to stop and think for even just a little bit about what we can do to care for life - not just people, but life.

 

I can't remember it word for word, but one phrase that is sticking with me and I found very meaningful is that every day you do nothing is another option lost.

Neo's picture

Neo

image

Yea, it's working for me for now. That is a powerful video, it all seems so obvious doesn't it? The Apollo astronauts felt the same way when the viewed the Earth from space for the first time. It seemed so obvious to tem that the Earth is a whole Unit. We are living and breathing and having our being with in the body of this one Unit.

 

(my cow video pales in comparison - I saw it on the side of this You-Tube site when the I couldn't run this one)

 

Thanks Oui, I may pass this one around also.

 

Cassandra's picture

Cassandra

image

Read "The Oak Tree" by Grey Owl.

Cassandra's picture

Cassandra

image

I believe everything with life is sacred because life is God and therefore God is in everything living.  God is the life-force.  Nature is God manifested.  It is God's nature.  If you want to know what God is like, look at nature.  The mouse is into small details, the eagle sees the big picture and both are important.  The ground squirrel and pocket gopher store food for winter - good idea.  The weasel and Snowshoe hare and Ptarmagan change into white coats for the winter - good idea.   Female kangaroos can stop their gestation if conditions are dry or otherwise bad and many mammals eat the afterbirth so the predators can't smell where they are resting.  Animals evolve into more clever, stronger or faster beasts and in the end everything dies in order to move the cycles of nitrogen, oxygen, carbon along.  I could go on.  So God is all-seeing, sensible, organized, thrifty, tender and nurturing, will end a life to feed a life (recycles), and loves to have the maximum number of living organisms around - biodiversity.

stardust's picture

stardust

image

Cassandra

Beautiful!

Mate's picture

Mate

image

oui

 

That video is amazing.  What is interesting is that many Christian theologians today have come to the same conclusions.  The cosmos is One and we are all part of that One.

 

stardust

 

That poem is beautiful and very meaningful.

 

Shalom

Mate

Ergo Ratio's picture

Ergo Ratio

image

Great video, thanks for passing it along.

spockis53's picture

spockis53

image

We are all one. The most powerful premise.

 

Now if we could only convince everyone to understand that, the beliefs that divide us all would disappear.

 

It is beginning. The day will come.

 

paradox3's picture

paradox3

image

spockis53 wrote:

We are all one. The most powerful premise.

 

Now if we could only convince everyone to understand that, the beliefs that divide us all would disappear.

 

It is beginning. The day will come.

 

 

Spockis53, 

 

Your comment is, itself, a statement of belief (or opinion).  Why does belief have to divide us?  We can be one (unity) and still have room for diversity/ plurality, can't we? 

spockis53's picture

spockis53

image

paradox3 wrote:

spockis53 wrote:

We are all one. The most powerful premise.

 

Now if we could only convince everyone to understand that, the beliefs that divide us all would disappear.

 

It is beginning. The day will come.

 

 

Spockis53, 

 

Your comment is, itself, a statement of belief (or opinion).  Why does belief have to divide us?  We can be one (unity) and still have room for diversity/ plurality, can't we? 

Disagree. It's a statement of optimism based on initial observations. The outcome will be determined by evidence over time. I am optimistic because of the trend indicators.

 

"Why does belief have to divide us?" 

Indeed, why does it have to divide us?

 

"We can be one and still have room....." 

We must be one where there are common, shared needs (I include every living thing in that statement - as the video recommends).  If an element of diversity doesn't support the common need, it is time for it to be exposed as such, isolated and dealt with.

Faerenach's picture

Faerenach

image

I have to admit, I laughed when I saw this topic.  Don't take it personally - I just finished doing Hair, and one of the main characters' introduction ends with "I love you, and you, and you, and you... I love everyone!!  We are all one." 

 

I would smile every time he said it, because it's easy to want to believe it.  And this video makes me smile in the same way.  "The tree is a community"... what a beautiful idea.

paradox3's picture

paradox3

image

spockis53 wrote:

If an element of diversity doesn't support the common need, it is time for it to be exposed as such, isolated and dealt with.

 

Hi again, Spock, 

 

Yes, I agree with you here.  We could certainly come up with examples of religious (and other) ideologies that have been divisive and caused harm. 

 

Are you open to retaining religious and/ or philosophical diversity when it enriches the human experience?  Or do you think that religion, by its nature, is divisive?  (If this is your opinion, you are on the same page as Gretta Vosper.  I don't recall whether or not you have read her book ... P3)

spockis53's picture

spockis53

image

paradox3 wrote:

spockis53 wrote:

If an element of diversity doesn't support the common need, it is time for it to be exposed as such, isolated and dealt with.

 

Hi again, Spock, 

 

Yes, I agree with you here.  We could certainly come up with examples of religious (and other) ideologies that have been divisive and caused harm. 

 

 

 

Are you open to retaining religious and/ or philosophical diversity when it enriches the human experience?  Or do you think that religion, by its nature, is divisive?  (If this is your opinion, you are on the same page as Gretta Vosper.  I don't recall whether or not you have read her book ... P3)

 

I heard Vosper on TVO the other night. She has an amazing mind. I havent read her yet.

 

I think religion is divisive. It's an anachronism that will be weeded out as it becomes less relevent politically.

 

If by "enhancing the human experience" you mean helping us survive, then yes. But only the elements that do that. Most of religion is mumbo jumbo IMO.

 

For example, I think what we call 'spirituality', scientifically, is a necessary adaptive human characteristic. I am a physicalist or philosophical materialist, so I adhere to the idea that all things are measurable. There is a good case for sprituality being measurable and being a 'cohesive trait' in nature.

paradox3's picture

paradox3

image

Hi Spock, 

 

Hmm ... I see where you are coming from, I think.  (I am not a philosophical materialist, of course.)   How would you say spirituality is adaptive?  Or measurable?

spockis53's picture

spockis53

image

paradox3 wrote:

Hi Spock, 

 

Hmm ... I see where you are coming from, I think.  (I am not a philosophical materialist, of course.)   How would you say spirituality is adaptive?  Or measurable?

 

It's measurable, because the sensation of spirituality, that an otherness exists, (sorry for the lack of a quantitative unit here) can be induced physically. People report the emotion. So straight off, it happens and it can be recorded.

 

How is it useful/adaptive? The studies show we are born with the trait. Children often have imaginary friends to help them deal with things they don't understand. We sense a 'rustling in the bushes' and assume danger where there is none. The intuitive guarded sensation would be strongly selected for.

 

I have a link to a lay artcle that references the several social studies if you're interested.

 

Faerenach's picture

Faerenach

image

Interesting, spockis53.  You're saying that people deal with questions and concepts they cannot answer/deal with by using spiritual or imaginative means.  Hence, a coping or adaptation technique.

 

This only makes me believe more strongly that this technique is a building block in the community-based living style of humans.  Wouldn't it be great to study the beginnings of spirituality and human's shift to communal habitation?  (My prehistoric anthropological/archaeological spidey sense is tingling...)

spockis53's picture

spockis53

image

Yes, I think we agree. Anthropology was always my favourite elective.

 

And yes, it would make a very interesting study. 'Spirituality' correlates with functional communities -  cool. I think it is a concept worth being senstive to as the world shifts forward.  And it is making news today in the social sciences (see below).

 

Here's a link if you're intested. The article is pop journalism, but it references several academic studies.

http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126941.700-born-believers-how-your-brain-creates-god.html

Wonderingg's picture

Wonderingg

image

Well, how incredibly humanistic that anti-human video was...

 

Definately a powerful video, but flies in the face of most of the comments here. Most of you have made it clear that you subscribe to the humanistic ideology. (Whether or not you call yourself a physicalist or philosophical materialist or not)

 

The elder in the video speaks of the "Law of Nature" and I am assuming your lack of comment implies tacit acceptance of it yet your comments are dripping with the "philosophy-du-jour" i.e. "I beleive that ... therefore, for me, it is true." If the Law of Nature is an absolute truth, then you must accept that absolute truth exists, therefore, your interpretation of "spirituality" or "life" must conform to the truth. If you prefer to beleive that truth is adaptive/subjective, then you must not accept anything as an absolute truth - there is no truth.

 

How sad it must be to live in a world without absolutes. What you beleive is truth for you, but without absolute truth, is your truth an actual truth or a fabrication? I refuse to live my life based on my own construct, which may or may not be a load of dung.

 

Without absolutes, you beleive that rape is wrong, but, to the rapist, it is his belief that rape is virtous. Who are you to say that his beliefs are wrong if truth is subjective?

Faerenach's picture

Faerenach

image

That's an engaging article, spockis53!  I think it's amusing that the origin of religion idea is sort of chicken/egg like.  Did it develop to keep us closely knit, or were we hardwired for it in the first place, which kept us closely knit?  ...or both?  Apparently Dawkins thinks both are probably right.

 

The other theme of the article, which was fascinating, was how important our ability to imagine or fantasize is.  It reminds me of Jo Rowling (author of Harry Potter) giving her speech at Harvard, when she talks about the crucial ability of humans to use their imagination.

 

This was also interesting:

"Would a group of children raised in isolation spontaneously create their own religious beliefs? "I think the answer is yes," says Bloom."

 

Sounds very Jungian, don't you think?

Faerenach's picture

Faerenach

image

Wonderingg:  You have a lot of interesting points.  I guess my first response would be that you do not see a difference between laws and truths; I do.  If I drop a ball, it will fall to the ground due to gravity.  We cannot absolutely be sure this will always happen, but we can predict that it will always happen based on observation - this is science.  There are no absolutes in the scientific methods, there are laws. 

 

I don't find it sad to live in a world without absolutes.  My view of truth is my own - whether it is fabricated or not doesn't really matter.  That truth is influenced by the people around me, and how I choose to listen and react to them.  I agree that living only by your own constructs would be disastrous - it would separate you from living in the community of humanity.  But that is the root of everything, isn't it?  Community.  If you live in a community where rape is wrong, but the rapist believes it is virtuous, what is the truth?  The truth is that the rapist acted outside the respect of the community.  I suppose my truth is that I believe in community, and my own constructs are defined by the communities that I am a part of.  They are not absolute, but they are subjective to those who I live and interact with.

Wonderingg's picture

Wonderingg

image

Some very good points. I hadn't thought of laws and truths being different. Thank you for that - I am sad to say the cliche "laws are made to be broken" had never crossed my mind.

I like the idea of community in terms of our relationships developing our social mores. I agree with that completely, however, in terms of your logical outcome there is more to be said. How do communities interact with one another? I think we can be a part of dozens of intersecting and individual communities. For example, I belog to the following communities: Canadian, musician, caucasian, Christian, etc...

 

Do we then decide to which community's "truths" we will adhere? How do we judge which standard is more "truthy?" If the aforementioned rapist is part of a community which, again, views rape as virtuous, then what precedent is there for our community to judge his community?

 

Community is also a fuzzy term. How many does it take to make up a community? Many would argue that there can be a community of one, but is there a higher number or required participants?

 

The assumption that there will be no dissent within a community is flawed. If we agree to call this (at the risk of using a buzz-word) an "online community," there are many differing opinions and viewpoints expressed on a daily basis. How is it decided which viewpoint within a community is truth, much less which community represents truth?

 

Should there then be regulations as to who can join a community?

 

Does it come down to, in spite of all the scientific theory, which truth feels right? Or which truth fits my life better?

 

I suppose it comes down to the basic difference of opinion as to whether or not truths can be absolute. I say yes they can.

spockis53's picture

spockis53

image

Wonderingg wrote:

The elder in the video speaks of the "Law of Nature" and I am assuming your lack of comment implies tacit acceptance of it yet your comments are dripping with the "philosophy-du-jour" i.e. "I beleive that ... therefore, for me, it is true." If the Law of Nature is an absolute truth, then you must accept that absolute truth exists, therefore, your interpretation of "spirituality" or "life" must conform to the truth.

I accept natural laws, and the fact that we understand or know, practically, very little of them.

 

There is no evidence for absolute truth, supernatural or natural. Science never claims to know any absolute 'truth'. It simply moves toward a better understanding of nature and measures that understanding by the predictive power of what it has learned.

spockis53's picture

spockis53

image

Wonderingg wrote:

Does it come down to, in spite of all the scientific theory, which truth feels right? Or which truth fits my life better?

 

I suppose it comes down to the basic difference of opinion as to whether or not truths can be absolute. I say yes they can.

 

Welcome to Wondercafe, Wonderingg.

 

I see you've just joined. It will be quite the ride if you're open minded about dialogue.

 

Yes, it is definitely a matter of personal opinion whether such a thing as absolute truth exists. It's debated a lot here on wondercafe. If you believe in the supernatural, then yes you can make the leap to believing in absolutes. But that belief is limited in that it is unable to shared with anyone else outside your personal opinion.

 

I on the other hand (an atheist, non believer) am very happy to share my understandings and information with anyone else. And I am open to share the experiences of others and learn that way too. And of course, my experiences are verifiable by evidence, not simply claimed to be.... absolutely true.

Faerenach's picture

Faerenach

image

I'm very much enjoying this discussion.  :)

Wonderingg wrote:
I like the idea of community in terms of our relationships developing our social mores. I agree with that completely, however, in terms of your logical outcome there is more to be said. How do communities interact with one another? I think we can be a part of dozens of intersecting and individual communities. For example, I belog to the following communities: Canadian, musician, caucasian, Christian, etc...

A community, from my very prehistoric point of view, is a group that bonds people together - that encourages social complexity.  The way you are using the word community in this paragraph goes hand in hand with the word 'identity'.  You identify with these communities.  Of course you can identify with as many communities as you like, but that doesn't necessarily mean you think exactly like everyone else... simply that you respect the members, based on a shared identity.

 

Wonderingg wrote:
Do we then decide to which community's "truths" we will adhere? How do we judge which standard is more "truthy?" If the aforementioned rapist is part of a community which, again, views rape as virtuous, then what precedent is there for our community to judge his community?

We're trudging back into 'truth' again.  To me, this is where the difference between law and truth becomes apparent.  Communities have laws - most of them, unwritten.  For example, an AA meeting would not meet in a pub.  Communities are as strong as their respect for its members, though, so many have the same humanistic laws.  Look at the Golden Rule - a perfect example of how communities across the world adhere to the 'treat the people in your community as you yourself wish to be treated' philosophy.  I wouldn't call this a truth, but rather a law.  There may be some communities that do not have this law.  That doesn't mean they don't function as a community; if they respect the unwritten codes of their group, they are still welcomed. 

 

When it comes down to one community accepting another community's behaviours, that's when it gets treacherous.  That is what wars are made of.  You can agree to disagree, or you can act on revenge and pride.  One of the reasons I love the Christian faith is that Jesus' message was always of forgiveness, not of revenge or pride.  You are allowed to disagree; you are allowed to be angry.  But you are not allowed to judge people - that's God's job.

 

Wonderingg wrote:
Community is also a fuzzy term. How many does it take to make up a community? Many would argue that there can be a community of one, but is there a higher number or required participants?

Yeah, it is a fuzzy term.  I would say a community of one is stretching it... but two people could certainly be a community.  With community comes a shared identity, and a respect for all members.  There can be small and large communities, but really?  It's just a group of people that are tied together by shared interests.

 

Wonderingg wrote:
The assumption that there will be no dissent within a community is flawed. If we agree to call this (at the risk of using a buzz-word) an "online community," there are many differing opinions and viewpoints expressed on a daily basis. How is it decided which viewpoint within a community is truth, much less which community represents truth?

Did I assume that?  I didn't mean to.  I think a community is stronger when there's dissent and difference of opinion, and they function despite it.  Hands, feet, heart, legs... who remembers the bible verse?  All parts of one community, with differing purposes and points of view.  What it comes down to is respect for the other parts.

 

Wonderingg wrote:
Should there then be regulations as to who can join a community?

This would be, in my opinion, up to the laws as I stated earlier.  If you can't live with the laws, you'll have a hard time in any community.

 

Wonderingg wrote:
Does it come down to, in spite of all the scientific theory, which truth feels right? Or which truth fits my life better?

It comes down to how you identify yourself, I think.  Not about which truth is 'truer', but where you feel that your own unique character is at its best, at its most challenged and its most effective.

 

Wonderingg wrote:
I suppose it comes down to the basic difference of opinion as to whether or not truths can be absolute. I say yes they can.

And for me, it isn't whether truths can be absolute or not, it's whether we'll ever know what they are.  I say you can never know the absolute truth, but you must seek it with all your heart, all your mind, and all your soul, and live in accordance to the communities who help you along the way.

Arminius's picture

Arminius

image

spockis53 wrote:

We are all one. The most powerful premise.

 

Now if we could only convince everyone to understand that, the beliefs that divide us all would disappear.

 

It is beginning. The day will come.

 

 

Hi spockis:

 

If we could only convince scientists to admit that the universe which they analyze is in an innate state of synthesis.

 

This would not only bridge the gap between science and religion, it would heal the rift that divides all groups and individuals.

 

Science proclaiming the universe to be in an ultimate state of synthesis would amount to science's acknowledement of spirituality and the existence of God.

 

THIS WOULD BE THE GRANDEST HUMAN GESTURE EVER! It would lead to a spirtualization of our species. It would usher in a truly New and Creative Age for our species and our planet.

 

We, Homo sapiens sapiens, would finally live up to our self-chosen name and be doubly—dualistically and non-dualistically—sapient!

 

A goal worth striving for? You bet your sweet life it is!

 

______________________________________

 

Hi paradox3:

 

This doesn't mean that we have to abandon uniqueness, pluralism, and diversity. We'll realize the samenss that underlies uniquenss, we'll realize that uniqueness and sameness complement and necessitate each other, and become more, not less, appreciative of our differences. When we are united in oneness, then we'll be better able to comprehend and celebrate each other's uniquenesses. Then we regard our respective uniquenesses as creative expressions of the godly sameness that underlies all.

 

Synthesis is beyond conceptualization and beyond dogma or doctrine. IT can only be experienced. IT is ultimate and absolute Truth, but is experienced and expressed differently and uniquely by every one of us. In non-duality, uniqueness and sameness, too, are one. This is not a blending of opposites into one homogeneous mix, but a unification of opposites that remain distinct but are united; a realization that opposites necessitate each other, and, ultimately, are ach other.

 

The difference between diametric opposites is a matter of distinction, not separation.

 

 

The universal opposites and the transcendental power that unites and/or separates the two: The Triple Paradox of the Holy Trinity.

 

 

So they loved, as love in twain

Had the essence but in one;

Two distincts, division none:

Number there in love was slain.

 

Hearts remote, yet not asunder;

Distance, and no space was seen

'Twixt the turtle and his queen;

But in them it were a wonder.

 

So between them love did shine,

That the turtle saw his right

Flaming in the phoenix's sight:

Either was the other's mine.

 

Property was thus appaled,

That the self was not the same;

Single nature's double name

Neither one nor two was called.

 

-From THE PHOENIX AND THE TURTLE by William Sakespeare

 

Wonderingg's picture

Wonderingg

image

Spockis53:

Thank you for the welcome! I am enjoying my first day here. I am certainly open-minded, as, to share thoughts with others in a closed-minded manner is not productive, nor is it an exchange of ideas. Rather, it is preaching/ranting. I am certainly open to your viewpoint, as I would expect others to be open to mine.

 

I don't mean to beat a dead horse with the subject of absolute truth, but what drives my inner hampster wheel is discussion of things unproven/unprovable. (By no means do I intend to belittle or discount scientific research) I look forward to some very interesting discussions!

 

Faerenach:

I am also enjoying this discussion! Please don't misinterpret my posed questions above as an attempt to poke holes in your arguments. Rather, I an very sincere with my questions - responding to the statements of others is when I do some of my most productive thinking, and I appreciate your responses.

 

I really like your thoughts on community. Some very interesting points. Unfortunately, its the end of the work day and my brain is like a warm gelatinous goo. Talk to you all tomorrow.

Faerenach's picture

Faerenach

image

Wonderingg:  I come here to get holes poked into my arguments!!  There's nothing more mind-expanding than discovering you might be wrong.  Please, continue!

 

As for the warm, gelatinous goo, as the Romans would say - 'quidem' (indeed).  To the commuter train-mobile!

oui's picture

oui

image

Great discussion folks, thanks!  It might be time to view the video again,

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=61BCB2-OmRY

 

I just did, and the sense of peacefulness it conveys is so powerful.  Peace with action. 

 

The concept of community in the video explains it as the tree being central, and various plants and animals gathering around the tree.  Metaphorically, maybe the tree could be a central idea, or concept, and those that understand it and appreciate it are then drawn to it.

 

I think the Wondercafe community illustrates this very well.  The central "tree" is spirituality.  Under its canopy can be found daisies and thorn bushes, which themselves harbour mini communities.  Diversity within the community.  Diversity is not only allowed, but encouraged because the community is enriched by it, which also benefits the "tree".

 

I think if only daisies grew around the tree, they could choke out everything else, deplete the soil and possibly even damage the tree itself.

 

I think diversity within community is natural, necessary, positive and possibly unavoidable. 

We are separate, but together we are one.

 

 

paradox3's picture

paradox3

image

Nice post, Oui ... P3

spockis53's picture

spockis53

image

Wonderingg wrote:

I don't mean to beat a dead horse with the subject of absolute truth, but what drives my inner hampster wheel is discussion of things unproven/unprovable. (By no means do I intend to belittle or discount scientific research) I look forward to some very interesting discussions!

 

All things are unproven and all things are unprovable. So your options for discussion are either non existent or infinite. Hope to read you elsewhere on the WC.

tonton's picture

tonton

image

we are all one concerning being human beings. But we are not of the same spirit. Some are of very dark spirits. Some are of disobedient spirits, pagan spirits, satanic spirits, some of the holy spirit which comes from christ jesus. This oneness cult ushering in the one world order. and everybody should believe in the same pagan beliefs. This will prove to be a desaster according to prophecy. Mankind is so dark inside. they would never be able to handle having power over the whole world. This would bore them after time. they thrive on greed and power and when that is taken away. they will become so bored and cause atrocities that are beyond imagination. thats why they hate the bible. because it uncovers them..But god promised to intervene. so there is refuge and a solution. but the media and the secular society are causing the masses to turn away from their help. which is the love of jesus christ and the power of the holy spirit. every movie, cartoon, book club, teaches paganism, satanism and the occult. And they forbid using jesus christ on TV giving any real info about these teachings. But they do allow swaring with his name and other abominable actions. The most well done, political prophecy I have ever seen. giving quotes from some of the most powerful people in the world is on a documentary called "Megiddo I" go to google, click video, type Megiddo I. using a capital i indicating the number 1. if it freezes give it about 15 to 20 minutes allowing it to stop and go. then slide it back to the beginning and click play. It should play perfect. It starts off with animated stuff. after, it turns into the realist most intelligent documentary you have ever seen. Mindblowing. check it out. Then you would be so intriqued. Then watch Megiddo II . Nothing like this ever.

tonton's picture

tonton

image

we are all one concerning being human beings. But we are not of the same spirit. Some are of very dark spirits. Some are of disobedient spirits, pagan spirits, satanic spirits, some of the holy spirit which comes from christ jesus. This oneness cult ushering in the one world order. and everybody should believe in the same pagan beliefs. This will prove to be a desaster according to prophecy. Mankind is so dark inside. they would never be able to handle having power over the whole world. This would bore them after time. they thrive on greed and power and when that is taken away. they will become so bored and cause atrocities that are beyond imagination. thats why they hate the bible. because it uncovers them..But god promised to intervene. so there is refuge and a solution. but the media and the secular society are causing the masses to turn away from their help. which is the love of jesus christ and the power of the holy spirit. every movie, cartoon, book club, teaches paganism, satanism and the occult. And they forbid using jesus christ on TV giving any real info about these teachings. But they do allow swaring with his name and other abominable actions. The most well done, political prophecy I have ever seen. giving quotes from some of the most powerful people in the world is on a documentary called "Megiddo I" go to google, click video, type Megiddo I. using a capital i indicating the number 1. if it freezes give it about 15 to 20 minutes allowing it to stop and go. then slide it back to the beginning and click play. It should play perfect. It starts off with animated stuff. after, it turns into the realist most intelligent documentary you have ever seen. Mindblowing. check it out. Then you would be so intriqued. Then watch Megiddo II . Nothing like this ever.

Panentheist's picture

Panentheist

image

oui wrote:

Please take a small moment to enjoy this absolutely stunning video.

 

See video

 

Folks,

 

This kind of thinking is right down my alley and I would have loved to see the video, especially after I have seen the start of it. However, as per usual my video performance usually craps out after having run for parts of it. Very frustrating.

 

Is there anybody out there who has pointers on how to fix it? Would appreciate receiving them.

 

Thanks.

oui's picture

oui

image

tonton, its very sad that you cannot see the positivity that radiates in that video, and I think your choice to respond to it negatively is also sad.

 

If we cannot rid ourselves of negative emotion, and begin to feel happy about ourselves, then how can we extend positive help to others?  If we can't see the sameness among us,  how can we view others as our equals?  If we can't view others as our equals, how can we treat them as ourselves?  How can we treat others as ourselves if we don't believe we are all one?

oui's picture

oui

image

Panentheist, are you on dial up or high speed?  If you are on dial up, just waiting for it to load completely is about all you can do.

 

You can also try this on high speed, stop the video part way, let it load further, then play again.  It might also be a computer issue, I think videos and graphics take a lot of ram.  You might need to clean out unwanted junk stored in your computer.

 

If all else fails, you can talk to your internet provider about it to see if it is a problem at their end.

tonton's picture

tonton

image

oui. I thought the video was beautiful, calming, and very touching, at times I was almost to tears by its beauty. But we just won't understand that the worshiping of trees, and earth is not going to cure what has happened to the human soul. Its chaos. And its all happening because of the sickness we have allowed in our spirits. There are many powerful people of high positions running our governments. Many of them endorse your belief. and would cry at that video. yet their souls are still dark enough to oppress the masses. Right now we don't need beliefs that make us feel all gooey inside for a moment. We need to allow god to rid us of these demonic forces that are attacking the minds of people at such an alarming rate. They deceive our leaders and our children, forces working through the media to sell witchcraft and satanism to a world that is in need of christ who teaches love and peace,giving,humility. Regardless of the people that are misusing the scriptures. prophecy said they would do that in the last days. and many are. However; The bases of the scriptures and the love of jesus,the power of the holy, spirit still is. And we live in a society thats trying to kill it. thats impossible. the bible says they will try to kill us off. but they can't get rid of the word and the holy spirit. why hate it. all it does is remind us of morals that are so needed in this world today.  we would rather worship rats, rocks,statues,trees which can not help our condition. This is about healing at the root. yet society rejects because of pride. can a dying man reject medicine because of pride. this is what the world is doing. many of them know that the teaching of christ is a soul healer. The 2 biggest emergency relief organizations we have in the world, showing up in the most dangerous zones of catastrophe are the Red Cross and the salvation Army Both christian organizations. Even when the government won't show up. they are there in the most horrifying conditions. Where do people think they get there strength. Its beyond man. Its the love of the holy spirit. But soon these organizations will be abolished because of the principle on which they stand which is the love of christ. We are now Living in a time that people are worshiping choice more than the thing they should be chosing. all for the sake of pride. Then we watch the news and get blown away by wicked beyond our imagination. The truth is, I love all people. But I don't want a belief that gives me a gooey feeling inside and gives no power. Jesus saves. And the rulers of this earth are in competition with god. The bible says they will appear to be winning. But they will fail. Its really getting crazy. Tell them the truth and let a person live. Bitter medicine still saves lives. Or tell them a lie and watch them die spiritually. I rather pull them out of the fire. Its not about them stroking my ego. Or loving me. Its about them being delivered and being Ok. No one person can save the world. But with the help from the holy ghost in the name of Jesus christ I have seen many delivered from drugs, alcohol, the occult, demons and given a new lease on this life and life eternally. This is worth the ridicule. The bible says they persecuted christ, they lied on him, ridiculed him and hung him on a cross. and they persecute us. yet we continue to love.God loves you..So do I..Peace

Witch's picture

Witch

image

tonton wrote:

But we just won't understand that the worshiping of trees, and earth is not going to cure what has happened to the human soul.

 

What you don't understand is that all your worshipping of empty religious rhetoric about the human soul is not going to cure what we have done to the trees and the earth.

oui's picture

oui

image

tonton wrote:

oui. I thought the video was beautiful, calming, and very touching, at times I was almost to tears by its beauty. But we just won't understand that the worshiping of trees, and earth is not going to cure what has happened to the human soul.

 

tonton, I'm sorry, but nowhere in the video does it say anything about worshipping trees!  That is not the message at all.  I think you have injected your own fear and misunderstanding into a message of great truth. 

 

One of the messages is that we share many more similarities with trees than we do differences with them, at the most basic level.  So by extension, when we are damaging trees, we also damage ourselves.

 

If we can begin to think of trees as our equals, as another living creation of God, like we are, rather than thinking of yourself and your superiority to a tree, perhaps we will think of protecting them before we destroy them.

 

"The person who believes that the self is a permanent, separate existence, will always see a fundamental division with the world, and will always be tormented with the consequences of its division.

I and not I, mine and not mine, desire and aversion, love and hate, life and death.

Out of this fundamental duality springs all the afflictive emotions and acts that perpetuate suffering.

 

Ignorance misunderstands the self to be something absolute, apart from the world. 

Wisdom understands the lack of such an absolute self, thus recognizing the existence of a relative self that is related with and inter-connected with the world."

-Robert A. F. Thurman

Faerenach's picture

Faerenach

image

oui wrote:
If we can begin to think of trees as our equals, as another living creation of God, like we are, rather than thinking of yourself and your superiority to a tree, perhaps we will think of protecting them before we destroy them.

In that line of thought, you could make the case that by NOT seeing the rest of creation as equal existences, we are worshipping ourselves and not God.

Witch's picture

Witch

image

In one sense, absolutist religions ARE about worshipping one's self.

 

Absolutist religions elevate your own beliefs above all others, to the level of godhood.

Faerenach's picture

Faerenach

image

That's an awesome observation, Witch.

oui's picture

oui

image

Witch wrote:

In one sense, absolutist religions ARE about worshipping one's self.

 

Absolutist religions elevate your own beliefs above all others, to the level of godhood.

 

I agree, I think absolutist religions elevate separateness through exclusivity.  Separateness fosters negative emotions which fuels negative actions.

 

I and not I  leads to dischord, which coincidentally is where we have been, and currently are. 

 

We are all one leads to harmony and peace, coincidentally where we have never been, and currently are not.

Back to Religion and Faith topics