Kimmio
Blind Consensus or Critique?
Posted on: 06/02/2014 08:11
This is a spin off that I'm posting here to continue a conversation with Pinga as she's requested.
Skimming through this I am aware that at least part of the criticism for hang ups in process is being directed at me. Rev.Steven you are probably right that they would have avoided problems by just doing it and not asking for input. However, that's not what happened, and so they got input. In some ways, them just going ahead would have been better, but if we're going to be involved we we should be able to ask questions and get transparent answers without being made a fool of in the process of expressing concern. Would you prefer a nice cheery bunch who never raised any controversial issues or topics, even if those topics are concerns as the new site is being built? We never have been that. We could work on being more respectful- but we've never just been dull and agreeable. I want to know why it's okay to criticize our elected officials, their policies, question what structures of power can do with their power- we discuss what that so and so politician did and how awful- we talk about buying green and not shopping at Walmart- we have had conversations about detaching from structures of money and power, being aware, and focusing on common good- but why we are supposed to have complete confidence in a total strangers who have made known that they part of those structures of power we may not agree with- in daily life? Seems hypocritical not to question. We know what UCC is about but we do not know what XY Corp. is about. By comparison- I think it's as appropriate to question that as it is to question where you shop and what you buy, or buy into and who they're affiliated with- and to make known your concern instead of being a blind consumer. If who you're buying from cares, they will be civil to you and do their best to address your concern without scoffing. Like if you were sudficiently annoyed and you wrote your MP a complaint letter about their policies and practices- even if you were ill informed to begin with -you'd expect a decent answer not an angry mob- if that official cared about their contituency. On another the hand- for some reason I'm not surprised that a mainstream church going Christian group here would act like a lynch mob just because I brought it up. Some of you can criticise what you read in the news but can't see how being a polly anna blind consumer leads to problems to begin with if you don't ask questions of your leaders because everything's supposed to be rosey. Sometimes it's not rosey.
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Pinga
Posted on: 06/02/2014 22:34
I know what you're saying. I do trust a variety of people for a variety of reasons but what matters to me more than any skilled competency is people caring about people- usually the weaker. First the care, for the person, then the competency that the person needs. In that order, I trust. I don't look for the competency first if I can't read the person behind the hat that's providing it. As for friends I am an odd duck so I trust people who care enough to appreciate that.
So, your presumption is that skilled and successful people don't care for people?
That MicroSoft employees are bad?
That the person wearing birkenstocks and functioning as a barrista is good?
InannaWhimsey
Posted on: 06/02/2014 22:37
if i'm reading twitter correctly, the first envelope was found & photograph sent 40 seconds after the hint was posted by this Dan Brown *boggle*
Kimmio
Posted on: 06/02/2014 23:40
if i'm reading twitter correctly, the first envelope was found & photograph sent 40 seconds after the hint was posted by this Dan Brown *boggle*
I guess that person was in the right place at the right time. My guess is he's hiding it mostly around the west side. Was that where the last one was found on the west side? Park yourself down at Kits, with a cell phone and a bicycle so you can get there fast! :)
Kimmio
Posted on: 06/02/2014 23:39
I know what you're saying. I do trust a variety of people for a variety of reasons but what matters to me more than any skilled competency is people caring about people- usually the weaker. First the care, for the person, then the competency that the person needs. In that order, I trust. I don't look for the competency first if I can't read the person behind the hat that's providing it. As for friends I am an odd duck so I trust people who care enough to appreciate that.
So, your presumption is that skilled and successful people don't care for people?
That MicroSoft employees are bad?
That the person wearing birkenstocks and functioning as a barrista is good?
No, no, and no. But I have to be able to read the person. I could care less about the company hat. I'm not interested in worshipping what I do for a living or the company I work for and I feel uncomfortable when I pick up that vibe from others. If a company expects me to worship their brand in order to work there- I am running away from there. I'm not going to be a good fit in such a place. That limits job opportunities these days, I'm afraid.
Kimmio
Posted on: 06/03/2014 01:56
if i'm reading twitter correctly, the first envelope was found & photograph sent 40 seconds after the hint was posted by this Dan Brown *boggle*
I guess that person was in the right place at the right time. My guess is he's hiding it mostly around the west side. Was that where the last one was found on the west side? Park yourself down at Kits, with a cell phone and a bicycle so you can get there fast! :)
Wouldn't be surprised if a bike courier found it, come to think of it. Good on 'em if that were the case. They probably need it. Those people bust their butts for piecework. It's quite an ecclectic culture, those couriers. And they can get all over the city in minutes and they know all the landmarks and buildings. Whoever found it regardless, good on 'em.
lastpointe
Posted on: 06/03/2014 10:39
I know what you're saying. I do trust a variety of people for a variety of reasons but what matters to me more than any skilled competency is people caring about people- usually the weaker. First the care, for the person, then the competency that the person needs. In that order, I trust. I don't look for the competency first if I can't read the person behind the hat that's providing it. As for friends I am an odd duck so I trust people who care enough to appreciate that.
So, your presumption is that skilled and successful people don't care for people?
That MicroSoft employees are bad?
That the person wearing birkenstocks and functioning as a barrista is good?
No, no, and no. But I have to be able to read the person. I could care less about the company hat. I'm not interested in worshipping what I do for a living or the company I work for and I feel uncomfortable when I pick up that vibe from others. If a company expects me to worship their brand in order to work there- I am running away from there. I'm not going to be a good fit in such a place. That limits job opportunities these days, I'm afraid.
Kimmio, I think most companies expect that if you want to work for them that you believe in what they do. It only makes sense.
If you think banks are ripping people off then banks would not want you as an employee and I think that would go for virtually every company.
.
People do pick and choose companies to work for based on what they think of them and many people pick and choose what products to buy for the same reason. But there is no reason to assume that a large company has poorer ethics than a small one.
.
Most large companies that I know about (banks, investment companies, IT companies, hospitals) have very strong ethics and very strong community activities. SOme of the richest people I know are tremendously giving of their time, not just their money.
The large American company my husband works for expects its employees to be involved in the community to a very large extent. Rotary, united way, coaching or whatever. It is an expectation They are also the largest recruiter (I think) in the USA of retired armed forces people for the same reason of giving back and helping out
.
I am only commenting here because I get tired of the idea that floats around periodically that rich or big or corporate is somehow bad or evil.
.
Pinga
Posted on: 06/03/2014 12:34
That is quite true, lastpointe
The firm that i work for values ethics and invests significant in employee training and ombudsman type activities.
It isn't because they have to, it is because they believe it is important.
I wouldn't work for a company that wasn't.
Kimmio
Posted on: 06/03/2014 12:49
I know what you're saying. I do trust a variety of people for a variety of reasons but what matters to me more than any skilled competency is people caring about people- usually the weaker. First the care, for the person, then the competency that the person needs. In that order, I trust. I don't look for the competency first if I can't read the person behind the hat that's providing it. As for friends I am an odd duck so I trust people who care enough to appreciate that.
So, your presumption is that skilled and successful people don't care for people?
That MicroSoft employees are bad?
That the person wearing birkenstocks and functioning as a barrista is good?
No, no, and no. But I have to be able to read the person. I could care less about the company hat. I'm not interested in worshipping what I do for a living or the company I work for and I feel uncomfortable when I pick up that vibe from others. If a company expects me to worship their brand in order to work there- I am running away from there. I'm not going to be a good fit in such a place. That limits job opportunities these days, I'm afraid.
Kimmio, I think most companies expect that if you want to work for them that you believe in what they do. It only makes sense.
If you think banks are ripping people off then banks would not want you as an employee and I think that would go for virtually every company.
.
People do pick and choose companies to work for based on what they think of them and many people pick and choose what products to buy for the same reason. But there is no reason to assume that a large company has poorer ethics than a small one.
.
Most large companies that I know about (banks, investment companies, IT companies, hospitals) have very strong ethics and very strong community activities. SOme of the richest people I know are tremendously giving of their time, not just their money.
The large American company my husband works for expects its employees to be involved in the community to a very large extent. Rotary, united way, coaching or whatever. It is an expectation They are also the largest recruiter (I think) in the USA of retired armed forces people for the same reason of giving back and helping out
.
I am only commenting here because I get tired of the idea that floats around periodically that rich or big or corporate is somehow bad or evil.
.
That's if you work for a company that is very bottom line profit and numbers oriented. That's not the only way to look at success. I work for a company that works on behalf of a large humanitarian organization that doesn't care about making money or competition. I work for a place that isn't as interested in that as helping people. They have to stay afloat but we are not discouraged from suggesting a more suitable option or taking no for an answer. We recognize that the "other guys" are doing good things too. And it works out- because we are that way we meet the "deliverables". We don't put the numbers first and the numbers happen. We put caring first and the numbers happen because we really care. I don't want to work for a place that believes, and expects me to believe, that they are the be all and end all. I know that's uncanny. But actually, the clients appreciate that approach and the place has done well for over a decade, the staff are very down to earth people, and they're pretty happy to work there.
Sorry I had to edit because I got the order of my sentences twisted.
Kimmio
Posted on: 06/03/2014 12:54
And they treat us as individuals with different work styles. The protocol is pretty flexible.
Kimmio
Posted on: 06/03/2014 13:24
I do believe in what they do, but I also believe in how they get it done. It's not about competition it's about really truly helping people who need help- so, in this case, we don't behave competitively and we do well. But I had a hard time working for places that put their numbers first not their clients. Even social services was getting that way. I couldn't work for a place that expects me to believe and sell the idea that they are the best product or service around- because what if they're not? What about cooperation instead of competition? What if it's just a cup of coffee? I can't pretend to be someone I'm not to make money for something that's just a thing. So there are few places I would want to work - after realizing that about me and why I was so unhappy in places that expected that of me.
Kimmio
Posted on: 06/03/2014 13:50
I just want to add that I don't get paid a lot for what I do but I have a lot of respect for my employer- on a human level. Just a great team of people. And at the end of the day we're not saying 'Hooray' for our company but feeling like we did necessary good today, can go home knowing that somewhere someone is getting much needed attention. That's what the employer wants too- that people are getting much needed humanitarian attention- that's what the clients want, they want and the staff wants. We all care about that. That's their first priority is that people are getting helped. Their second priority is that their staff are happy and get along. Whereas- for me- if I went home saying "I met my targets today and I might get a bonus" that never motivated me.