thanks for pointing this out

 

personally, i saw the show being as much 'pro war' as i saw it being 'antiwar'

 

thanks for bringing up the smothered chicken episode -- my favourite mash character has to be Winchester -- he struck me as the most human

It was supporting the soldiers who were there in the line of duty- but it was also anti-war. Cross dressing Klinger was anti-war! Always trying to get a discharge. And maybe even socially progressive.

An interesting factoid from Wikipedia:
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kimchi

"Kimchi is South Korea's national dish. During South Korea's involvement in the Vietnam War, it's government requested American help to ensure that South Korean troops, reportedly "desperate" for the food, could obtain it in the field."

http://danangcuisine.com/recipes/recipe-vietnamese-kimchi-kim-chi-viet-nam/
It is also now a Vietnamese dish. Reminds me of "who invented noodles - Chinese or Italians?" it is actually a subject of debate. As for MASH, I think the social context was everything and the Vietnam War was very relevant.

Kimchi kept the SARS virus out of Korea. At least that's according to my Korean wife.

Calling kimchi Vietnamese is like calling poutine American.

There are actually several varieties of kimchi, and not all of them are made with cabbage.

It is funny our personal take on characters.

I did not find Klinger anti war at all.

Yes he wanted a discharge but that was, to me, just his way of coping. Just like we all know people who love to complain .
..

The other day, I was in a shop and the woman at the check out said to me. " oh my god it is soooo hot today". I looked at her and said " really? You are really complaining about the nice weather? ". I bet she complains about every day.
.

And Klinger became "mr army green " after he took over for radar, had responsibilities....... The subtle lesson being everyone can get ahead in the army if you try.

But we all see different things and ideas and read into different characters.

Richard Hornberger, the writer of the original book (MASH:  a novel about three army doctors) and who Hawkeye was supposed to be aboot

 

"Hornberger said he couldn’t understand why the Robert Altman-directed film and the TV series were assailed for anti-war themes during the Vietnam War.

“I intended no messages in the book. I am a conservative Republican. I don’t hold with this anti-war nonsense,” he said."

[source:  Variety, Nov 19, 1997]

 

Here the author is, in front of The Swamp

 

 

"Richard Hornberger at the original Swamp". Via Wikipedia.

 

(man, i'm getting to love this new iteration of firefox -- still miffed at them giving in to DRM; here's hoping that will fade away eventually -- which might happen sooner, due to Amazon being a real corporate dick atm...)

If Micky D.'s starts making it (have they?) it'll be American in no time. well there must be some blended families in Vietnam now because of the Korean soldiers during the war, and that's how the food moved there and got more established. I posted a link to Vietnamese Kimchi- apperently there's some difference between it and Korean Kimchi but I didn't watch the video. Vietnamese food I thought was milder. Anyway- MASH- not sure if in those days many would clue into mention of kimchi anymore than any other South East Asian food because we didn't yet have the variety of restaurants and interest in international foods here.

Of course a series about war will reflect on themes of the current war - wherever it is happening.  So the MASH series was shown during the time of the Vietnam war.  But its setting is Korea, during the time of the Korean conflict.  Vietnam is jungle.  Korea is mountainous.  The helicopters fly over mountains.  And many episodes are about winter conditions.  I don't think you find much winter in Vietnam - but there is snow in the mountains in Korea - and even in Soeul.  

 

Anti-war - Hawkeye is almost always raging about the terrible suffering and destruction of war - as it effects the civilians - and the young soldiers.  BJ wants to go home to his wife and baby.  Klinger tries to convince the army that he is crazy so he can go home.  Winchester sees his talents wasted.  

Even 'army' people like Potter and Major Hullihan see it as a job to be done - not glory.

Only Frank - a joke of a character - seems to support it.

 

 

'pro war' also can mean 'get the job done' & 'deal with what you have' -- not all 'pro war' is 'love the killin'' -- i think that is a caricature by the Left...

 

the show 'is' also pro war because none of the characters are protesters.  they don't go on strike.  they don't go out and bomb or otherwise terrorize the Americans.  they follow the chain of command mostly.  most of them follow the social norms of the Army.  you see characters in MASH going around with guns and not terrified that they'll be infected by some kind of inherent evil or sickness.  and so forth.

 

oh, what lovely prisoners we make of ourselves to our baroque arabesques of language...

 

as it should be -- the beholder is also in the eye...OWCH!

But it's anti-war in that it shows some of the- if not horrors of war because it was prime time TV- the emotional impact of it on people fighting it and the villagers living through it. It showed the human side- like the soldiers recognizing the humanity in their enemies- their being medics helped to highlight that- and at many points asking "what's the point of all this war?"

What I'm saying is that the setting wasn't as relevant as the social conversation going on in living rooms at that time. They could make a show about WW1 or 2 or any war now and bring today's social and or political context into it, by having some creative licence.

 

and you can have your beliefs and that is quite alright -- you don't have to think like i or anyone else does :3

 

i think that showing the horrors of war can be 'pro-war' -- its a job, and there are always aspects of the job that are terryfing

 

for me, a main difference between 'pro war' and 'antiwar' would be that antiwar films give an essence to war that it is inherently wrong, filled with some kind of unnatural taint or sin...

 

what we are really doing here with this current discussion imho is that we are, long after the fact, looking for data to support how we feel & think aboot MASH

 

and that's quite normal

 

EDIT:  we're gonna  have some fun yakking aboot this when the first Martian War happens :3

I meant that MASH being prime time TV was more sanitized than the news is. There was no gratutitous violence in it. Violence for the sake of violence- to entertain or boost viewership. There was none of that about it. It did not show the extent of the horrors of war, of course, only touched on them- I don't know if it was called a 'family show' but families watched it. It was anti-war because of the reasons I stated in my last post. It was not really horrific, nor meant to be, nor was it pro-war, IMO.

 

That reminds me of a Golden Girls episode where Sophia tells a Chinese man, "The Chinese invented noodles. We Italians like to take credit, but really we just added oregano".

Golden Girls was a good show, too. Maybe not as groundbreaking as others- but it did have a few socially relevant themes. Bea Arthur was always a good actor- and didn't she get her start as Maude- another spin-off from All in the Familiy? Along with The Jeffersons?


I have a neighbour who frequents our nearby coffee shop who reminds me so much of Sophia! Petite, older Italian woman- grumpy as can be much of the time, but she has a good heart. She's always shaking her fist at somebody, lecturing them about something. Telling young people to watch their manners or keep the noise down (while she shouts at them). We love her.