Ugh, I can't believe I did it again.  Please note the correct spelling of Nora's name is Nora Sanders.  

Pinga - I've tried.  I keep getting the notice  "Could not perform this operation because the default mail client is not properly installed." 

Are the email addresses you've given correct?   Or is the problem with my computer?  Or me?  

Perhaps if you sent me your e-mail address, I could send my letter to you and you could forward it to Gary, Nora, and Mardi.

Does anyone else have this problem?

Thanks Pinga. I fixed the misspelling and the email address.

Seeler,

Instead of clicking on the link, go to your standard email tool, and type the email addresses in.

Note: yes, I will also send you my email if that is easier, and I will forward it to them on your behalf.

Aaron

Thanks!  As someone whose name is often mispelled, I feel badly for making the error  in the post above. Thank-you for fixing it.

That's what I did, Pinga.  I wrote down the three addresses on a piece of paper - then I went to Yahoo to my e-mail - read my inbox - dashed off a quick reply to one or two - and then went to compose and keyed in the addresses you gave, plus one to Seelerman.  And I got the message back 'could not perform this operation ...'     Only Seelerman's went through without a hitch.

So, if you send me your email, I will try that way.

thanks.

sent

Aaron - I'm glad you posted this - I kept looking back & forth from the original message to pinga's correction and I couldn't see the difference!  Wondered how I could be overlooking this!!  So I was relieved to read down the thread LOL. 

Sorry about that Carolla, figured that it would be easier to ask Aaron to fix, then to hope people read down the thread.  One of those items, where the little details make a big difference.

Pinga, I am going to do this.  Have it on my list of duties for today :).  Is it better to send a separate email to each one, or can we send to one and copy the other two in?  Which is best?

3 months since announcement and sending out protest e-mails.

Shouldn't a delegate be going "plan in hand" to the person or committee who can reverse the decision? Has that person/persons been identified yet?

Shouldn't they have been receiving coffee and doughnuts from WC at least once a week (12 times)

If WC has any value, why is the situation not being brought up during the announcements at every United Church across the country?

You could be asking congregants to buy coffee packs in support of WC.

Leaving it up to an atheist, a UU and a non-attender kind of indicates that even UCCers who post on WC could give a rats pitootie.

Gosh, you're right, SnP. An agnostic, UCCan'er and an atheist just won't do. Know who we could really use? Jesus.

He's listed as your friend on WC. Could you ask him to fire off a Wondermail on our behalf?

Sorry-WC disabled his account.

Typical 8)

Nope, your sockpuppet account is still active. I don't report sockpuppets - I enjoy them. People who create sockpuppets are rarely bright enough to avoid exposing themselves. Your blunder was one of the more classic ones.

If it wasn't still active, that account page would instead be a simple message that "You are not authorized to access this page."

Don't tell me that omniscient Jesus can't remember his password? Tell him to check in the mySQL database and decrypt it from there.

You want to get a statement?, Jesus says, it's just like talking to the wall.

He's incommunicado, no comment to make, he's saying nothing at all.

-Dire Straits, Communication

It doesn't work.

Please stay on track, folks.

Re: why now? 

As I outlined, the basic information re costs and opportunity has shifted.  Given that, it is appropriate to ask for a reconsideration.

The last email that we asked to be sent was to the communications group, not the leadership of the church.

Man, Jesus is hopeless. Tell him to click on "Forgot your password?" below the login area.

I can see the headlines now. "Atheist provides IT support to Jesus"

:(

Jesus died for you.

Beloved,

I always feel that if the message is the same to all parties, then it is reasonable to send it to all 3 at once.  They then know who received it.

Cost and opportunity has shifted how?

What has happened to all of the other cost free options?

Asking for a petition process without understanding all of the other endeavours thrown out before Christmas (and how they ended, or if they are ongoing) is interesting.

Are the alternatives not plausible?

An update might help people when petitioning. 

Pinga's opening post *is* an update.

The UCCan is considering a lower-cost, stripped-down Wondercafe. It's an option. Pinga is asking people to write in and support this option. It's no more complicated than that.

Done.

This is the response I received from my email to Mardi Tindall:

"Thank you for your message. The United Church of Canada has a new Moderator - the Rev Dr Gary Paterson! Susan Fortner  will be able to put you in touch with our new moderator in September (sfortner@united-church.ca). If you wish to contact me in September, Susan will also be able to forward your message to me then. With gratitude and blessings... Mardi Tindal,  40th Moderator, United Church of Canada."

Actually Chansen, it is not an update.

Nor is there information about all of the other opitions/ outcomes presented before Xmas.

Now it is a petitition process, which is precisely the position once the announcement was made that WC will be shut down

Someone should explain how the other avenues pursued are not viable and explain what a stripped down version of WC is.

In order to petition for it,

How do you make everything so damn difficult? Under this idea, the UCCan continues running WC, using more simple software, for reduced cost compared to running it as a forum, church finder, blog host, etc.

Hi, I can offer some update.  A couple of weeks ago, I went to Communications management with the questions which people put forth here:

Or, more simply, it's the UCCan doing what we were proposing to do, saving all the hassle around the domain, copying over accounts and posts, etc. Needless to say, we support that idea and want the UCCan to know that we are supporting it.

Mendalla

For the record, I did not make any of this difficult.  Asking reasonable questions does not equal difficult . 

Thank you Aaron, for an update.

Sorry I'm not very impressed with Mardi Tindal's response to Beloved. There's no use in writing Gary until September? Am I reading the message properly? Mardi will also be available in Sept.?  Oh, I guess Mardi means she has no authority regarding the WC. I'll get there......:)...thanks for trying Pinga.

It sort of sounds like Mardi and Gary eloped....funny....!!!!...the UC gets more interesting every day. I know Gary is busy....BUT.....???????????

That sounds like it's an auto email reply that Mardi set up after the calling of Gary Paterson as Moderator. I'll check in with folks in that office to see if they can update it. As I understand it, Mardi Tindal does have an official role as former Moderator, but it's not a day to day kind of responsibility. 

n/a

Thanks Aaron. Its a very shabby response to Beloved  on behalf of that  UC office whatever the story   behind it.......

Thanks Chansen.

Beloved:  That would be an autoresponse and I appreciate you noting it.  I also appreciate Aaron followign up with Mardi.  As past moderator, and being someone who was communications focussed, and engaged during wondercafe, well, it seems she might have valuable insight and input to the moderator.

Aaron, thanks for following up.

Stardust, it is not shabby if it is an out of office type autoresponse as it isn't directed at Beloved in person.  Please do not be so quick to take offense.

*********************************8

Overall, I am a bit taken aback as what I had anticipated would be the cost  and what came in as an estimate have signficant gap. I trust that I am not alone and others also share a bit of Chansen's reaction.  I also expect that as with any vendor statement of work that there will be refinements and alternate solutions to drive the cost down and have offered to assist in that matter if it helps keep the site in place.  

*******************************************

Is there a possibility to extend the deadline of June if that is requred?

Greetings all!  I realized that the email from Mardi Tindal was an automated response and why it was what it was.  The reason why I posted it is because her email was one listed above as to whom we should send our emails to, and I thought that perhaps if this was known then there might be another suggested person to send it to.  I didn't post the information as a complaint or issue with Mardi/UCC.  Just thought that perhaps the information of suggested email recipients could be changed to someone else.

Thanks for sharing the information Aaron.

Hi AaronMcGallegos,

Thank you for this update.

So, just to clarify.  It isn't that free platforms are beyond our budget it is the cost of transfering data from the existing platform to one of the suggested free platforms that is prohibitive?

Is there a possibility of archiving the content of WonderCafe.ca as it currently exists and jumping directly to WonderCafe 2.0?  This would allow us to continue to access archived material and it would also allow for a fresh start (cleaning out the membership list of all the bots) and cutting the features that were not heavily used.

Quite frankly, I'm somewhat discouraged in the fact that here we have been working on a solution that is essentially free and the powers that be still appear intent on kicking numbers around.  I get that if The United Church of Canada is going to continue to maintain a site they need to pay folk to do that.  I haven't seen anything from the Church that suggests it is salaries of such staff that are the issue.  The only thing I have seen, to date, is that the platform and customizations will cost X and the Church cannot afford X.

Here at WonderCafe.ca we are offering up solution Y and it seems that at head office they are stuck on X or X-something.  To be perfectly candid it doesn't seem like we are actually being heard at all.  Either that, or those claiming to hear aren't actually listening.

I'm sorry that you get to be the bearer of not so good news.  I hope that something happens somewhere to turn that around for you.

Grace and peace to you.

John 

Thanks RevJohn. I guess we are "stuck on X or X-something" because we were asked to consider what kind of ways the GCO could support a new version of WonderCafe. The "X" is that way. I don't think this is meant to exclude the option of WonderCafe members creating their own version on a free platform. That's always an option. But (in my opinion) if the General Council Office is going be involve and offer support then there will be costs involved - staff time isn't being counted, but there are some things we would need to do to ensure the data is protected, both to protect users and protect the GC from any liability. Also, because we have a limited number of web staff, there isn't really the capacity to support a wide variety of platforms, so there would be costs involved when we have to go to a third party for support help. 

Hope that helps.

I have to ask this, and hope the answer is no, but just because no one may have asked. Is Wondercafe considered an asset to the "the powers that be" in the UCC? an embarrassment? A way to evangelize? Pointless? Usefull?

I guess what I'm wondering is this, Is there more of a reason other than the money that has led to the decision from administration to shut down Wondercafe? Because to me there is always an underlying motivation to withdraw funds and I'm curious what that is. This would help me to determine how I would address any emails that I would send.

Hi AaronMcGallegos,

Fair enough.

I'm not that concerned about excluding members creating their own version on a free platform.  I am concerned that it does not appear to be an option for the Church to create another version of a free platform.

Which I quite understand if The United Church of Canada were to transfer data to what is essentially a private operator.  What if The United Church of Canada simply drops the idea of using Drupal and moves to the free platform and maintains control of everything it currently controls?

I appreciate the logistics problem that would be inherent in trying to maintain a wide variety of platforms.  I'm not sure I understand how wide variety of platforms is being defined?  How many platforms are currently in play?

Pardon my naivete but what third party support would be needed for a free platform?

Grace and peace to you.

John

What, September!? I thought they decided to close wonderCafe in June or July?

Thanks RevJohn. Drupal, which WonderCafe currently is built on, is a free platform, but it still costs to have somebody set it up as a discussion site. Wordpress, which we also use, is likewise a free platform. But it would cost something to have it set up for discussion (and I think it would be the wrong platform for that anyway). Those are the main platforms we can support here. Going beyond those would likely require outside help because we don't have enough hours available to learn to maintain an additional platform, keep up with the security and other updates for an additional platform, etc. 

We haven't explored the costs/hours required to switch to one of the free platforms the members here have suggested. I can bring that option up, but honestly, I think there are challenges in terms of capacity to do something like that in-house.

About the data transfer. This job will take some time to do correctly, so unless we can find a qualified volunteer, it will cost somebody something. 

I'm not trying to quash any ideas around this, but just trying to be honest in saying there will be some cost involved in the GCO being able to support for a new version of the site....that's the reality that led to the decision to close WonderCafe in the first place. But we'll keep exploring it in the GCO as we are able.

Hi Arminius,

As has been stated previously, this is an out of office automated response.

I suspect it is actually very, very old and reflects the September in question is not September of 2014 but rather September of 2012.  Since he has been Moderator for over a year now I don't think anybody is actually referring to him as the "new" moderator.

That the out of office response does suggests that it was left in August of 2012 just after The Right Reverend Patterson became the Moderator.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Hi AaronMcGallegos,

Fair enough.

Fair point.

Thank you Aaron.  I suspected as much I just wasn't clear.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Hi John:

Thanks for the clarification.

Actually, I should have concluded that myself. I wasn't thinking.

Get someone like this to do the conversion:

http://gconverter.com/convert-drupal-forum-to-vbulletin-forum/

http://gconverter.com/convert-drupal-forum-to-xenforo/#

Talk to them, and get a managed vBulletin or Xenforo or IPB host, so you don't have to do the updates - they do it for you. Updates should not be handled in house if the UCCan is retaining control. There is no need if the forum software is essentially stock with a custom theme.

Here are some of their conversions:

http://gconverter.com/portfolio/?from=Drupal+Forum&to=vBulletin%20Forum

http://gconverter.com/portfolio/?from=Drupal+Forum&to=XenForo&to=IP.%20B...

I don't see why the year 1 costs should be more than $1000. Ongoing yearly costs should be far less. Turn over the daily moderation to the community, and the UCCan retains control. I don't understand why it has to be more complicated than that.

Ok, thanks Chansen. I'll pass this info on to our web folks, as I'm not really technically qualified to respond. It does sound good, but I also know the way WC was customized makes everything a little harder than you might think.

There's even a Drupal forum to vBulletin import script called "Impex". The only problem with anyone just giving this a shot themselves is you first need to buy a vBulletin licence so you have a place to import the database to.

How many user accounts, threads, and posts are there here? Any idea on the storage and bandwidth requirements?