The UCC where I grew up was built in the 1950s (56ish, I think) with tons of Windows in the sanctuary. It was fantastic in the daytime. At night, however, it was quite dim in the pews. Better at the front where there were some lights (and I think the organ had a piano lamp mounted on it for the organist). It was beautiful for, say, a Christmas Eve candlelight service or something, less so for trying to read the hymn book. Mercifully, we didn't do evening services very often. The light meter idea sounds like a good one and your congregation probably isn't the only one that needs to look into their lighting.

Mendalla

 My last church redid the lighting. The 1970's era fixtures only gave out 1 foot candle of brightness at best. Modern offices and schools expect 50 foot candles. Our new fixtures raised it to 15. A huge improvement.  

Mills Lighting in Toronto are a great resource and good to deal with. millslighting.com

You'll recognize their products, and they have lots of energy efficient options.

we had lighting added specifically for the choir...

As did we. Fortunately, we have massive two story windows on the east and south of the sanctuary and full floor on the second story on west side. It is opaque white stained glass with coloured patterns. In the summer there is sufficient light to leave the lights off. It has to be one of the brightest century-old sanctuaries I have ever preached in. No dark stained glass here! 

 That was a significant change in lighting for the Church.  Why would we not aim for foot candles equal to modern offices and schools?

Gordon

Gordon

So you can't see the coffee stains on the carpet?

Darn tootin, ain't nothing wrong with coffee in the sanctuary.  Would you rather have snoring?

IT

Russ

We're just in the process of completing a sanctuary renewal project. One of things that we did was to paint the walls a different colour. It has made our sanctuary so much brighter!

Indeed. Paint is a great and inexpensive way to renew a sanctuary. 

Our sanctuary is in the process of being switched from a pale pink to a light butter /cream / gold colour.

The difference is stunning.

 The lighting in a sanctuary should be close to that of a theatre- bright enough to read the program easily. 20 is lots in the pews, 30 on the chancel. 

We also upgraded our lighting about 10 years ago.  A very big project in a wooden ceiling.

There are now great lights that can also be dimmed for services if required ( like the good friday service)

 This list of foot-candles is most helpful.  Thank you very much, James.  I am in process of buying a digital foot-candle guage.  

Gordon Laird

Actually I like dim lighting in church at appropriate times. The Christmas candlelight service we used to hold each year back in the United Church I grew up in was a beautiful thing indeed.

 Dim lighting is great on Xmas Eve. It's not so romantic when it is the only light setting you have on those days when you want it bright enough so people can actually read something.

 i have just made a purchase through a US supplier, paying by PayPal of the following:

DAYSTROM WESTON FOOT CANDLE METER 614

It cost $35 US and an additional $35 for "International shipping".

That seems very expensive for shipping such a small item, but I checked with the supplier and that was his best rate!

I am happy with the purchase, but think I am ripped off on the shipping because I am Canadian.

gordonlaird

How was it shipped?

I refuse to buy anything from across the line unless they will ship by post.

IT

Russ

 I'll let you know how exactly it was shipped when it arrives!

Gordon

gordon - can i say - geek

Gordon is an Original Geek. He was among the first explorers of the United Church of Canada communicating on line and developing on line community in the mid-1980's. You can read the early history here:

http://www.glaird.com/2-7unite.htm

and

http://www.glaird.com/uch-pref.htm

The internet did not exist, then. What we have now in WonderCafe is what we dreamed of building twenty five years ago. And I'm a pioneer; part of the second wave, but not an explorer like Gordon.

 I wish we had more people willing to test out what could be done to improve our churches. Dim lighting is a problem in most sanctuaries. It doesn't have to be that way. It doesn't have to cost a fortune to fix it either.

Knowing Pinga, I think "Geek" was a compliment of the highest order :)  (Not saying Pinga is a geek, except that she might self-profess a tendency toward such interests, but of course she's cooler than cool)

Some of us like varied lighting for effect.  I'm learning that it is an age thing, related to bifocals and cataracts etc.  Older people just can't see as easily and the bright light is valued.  Also an important consideration when using projection of any kind. 

Having lighting as flexible as possible with blinds for windows, various switches for various banks of lights, dimmers and a good projector - best bet.

Agreed on much; however, for those with macular degneration, -- bright light, such as that streaming in a window, can actually be bad as well....so..the nice thing about a sanctuary is one should be able to find a space that is good for all.

and yes, geek is a good thing...love looking at thinkgeek and dream about buying gifts for folks..lol, though, not many of my family would truly appreciate the gifts.

 I agree that in the context of this discussion "Geek" is a compliment!  gl

 The footcandle meter arrived yesterday from Oregon.  It is USED, i didn't realize that, but assumed it was new.  It is quite old, maybe 30 years or so.  But it may just be the thing I need!  More comments as I begin to use it!

Gordon

(aside to pinga - that thinkgeek website is amazing!  my husband loves to browse through there!)

Ah yes gordon - that dreaded "international" shipping fee.  My son just bought some DJ headphones from the US - $160.  He wasn't aware there would be an additional $65 COD fee!  Some duty, some "brokerage fee".  It got shipped by UPS - who I think are notorious for this crazy extra fee.  Oh well ... he's learning ... albiet the expensive way!

I wonder if a photography lightmeter would also register the level of ambient light in a way meaningful for such a purpose - I shall have to ask my favourite photographer about that ...

You mean like this?

http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.20170

yes RevJM - there are many models around I think ... variety of prices ... just thinking that a photographer might already have one available if a congregation wanted to actually measure its light - might not need to purchase. 

A member of one of the congregations I served in the past commented that the lighting was quite adequate 20 years earlier, but now they need better lighting --recognized the impact of aging on the eyesight of many people.

We have talked about putting cup holders in the pews so people can have somewhere to put their coffee during the service!

Indeed it is! I cannot wait to see the final results.

We put the new "green" bulbs in our fixtures a while back. I am not sure if the sanctuary is brighter or just a different tone of light. We seem to be mostly lit properly, though if the lighting is dimmed for a special service, it becomes more interesting. Our building was built in the early 70's and has some interesting quirks for the time in this area.

Picking up some wonderful comments above.  I have a continuing interest in the phenomenon of lighting in the sanctuary.  Some comments:

Many of our sanctuaries were buillt in the 60's or before.  

Many of us were born before that.  The lighting is  BIG issue as we grow older.

Gordon

International shipping-I live near the border-a 45 minute drive to nearest town that has "Ship Happens". SH lets you use there address and e-mails you when your parcel arrives. They charge $5 a parcel. Handy when we need to order a few things not available in Canada or with high Candaina shipping costs

Now back to regular program of lighting in church...

Thanks for the reminder.  We are close to the border with Washington and can ship an article to Blaine Washington.  My Son has an account which allows this to work for him.  Then he picks it up in Blaine or Linden Washington.  I must ask to use it!

Thank you, Tabitha

My eyesight (lack of it, really) makes me avoid dimly lit spaces.  It gets stale very rapidly when you can't read a menu or hymnbook without a flashlight!

I once led worship at a small country church just after a hurrican passed to the south of us.  There was heavy cloud cover, so mid-day felt like dusk.  The church was small, old, stone - the small, stained-glass windows were set in deep letting in very little light at the best of times.  And just as I arrived the power went out.    Cancel the service???  I had driven 50 klms to get there and a fair sized congregation had gathered.  Those in the know found candles to place on the pulpit and piano and stragically throughout the room.   We worshipped in semi-darkness - something like the catacombs might have been like 2000 years ago.  It was effective - but not something I would like to do again.    Let there be LIGHT!

A few years ago, a minister in a small church noticed how dim the lighing was. Wishing to change things and put a new light on the situation, he suggested at the next meeting of the trustees that a chandelier be installed.  A few months went by and nothing happened.  So, he went to the chair of the trustees and asked what had happened to his idea of putting in the chandelier.

"Well Reverend," the chair said, "We didn't do anything on that idea of yours for two reasons.  First thing is, nobody could spell chandelier and second, what we really need in here is a better light."

The church moves forward into darkness.

sigh.

Hi Matt:

"More light!" eh?