I think it is pretty obvious that the decision about WC has been made, and that there is no will to be innovative in the UCCan. It saddens me to say this. I think that you are right, there is a red herring being thrown around. I suppose time will tell...

The plan right now is for there to be a successor run by the users. That's what Pinga, Chansen and I are working on. There's a certain irony that two of those three are not just not UCCan, but non-Christian.

Nothing the UCCan does can stop us from doing that if that is what we (we as in all the users, not we as in the three IT folks) want. We need nothing from them to do this, though it would be nice to have some cooperation from them. IOW, it is not a red herring if we want it to be more than that.

I can guarantee you one thing: if everyone just sits back and waits for the three of us to do everything, then you are dead on about WC 2 being a red herring. Pinga, chansen, and I all have (or will have once chansen gets back to work in a week or two) day jobs so our roles in this will need to be limited to what requires our technical knowledge and skills. We will be needing more people than the three of us involved to take on other work (marketing, fundraising, etc.). Exactly what we need people for will be clearer after the three finally confer by phone next week so watch for it.

If you want a real successor to WC that will go on after the UCCan "pulls the plug" then step up and help make it so. If you think we're doing it wrong, get involved and help us do it right. Second guessing and armchair quarterbacking is not going to accomplish anything.

If you really feel you need to just let go of it and do not support our efforts for that reason, do so. Just stay out of the way of those of us who are making a go of it and don't stand around telling us that we shouldn't/can't do it.

Mendalla

Speaking for myself, I wasn't saying you shouldn't can't. Just speculating as to why UCCan can't/ won't do everything people might like them to do.

For me to move forward with it if I am even welcome to- I would like to feel secure that the new site is founded on a sound values and mission statement first- tech and business follows. The frustration I feel is that I don't think others feel that's priority.

Oops. Having my own technical difficulties.

Mendalla, 

No one said anything about things being done wrong. I am not sure what I said that is being construed as "second guessing" or "armchair questioning".

I am heartsick about the communication that is going on between the three of you and the Communications Unit of the UCCan. I appreciate your efforts very much - - I certainly was not intending any criticism of you or Pinga or Chansen. 

. 

That was more generally directed rather than addressing you directly. I have been getting a sense of it from some quarters.

Mendalla

Okay. Good to know, Mendalla. 

1. Copy the user agreement and guidelines of conduct below into your browser.
2. Make the changes you want to see.
3. Post your version for discussion.

It wiil be good to get an idea of what is needed. I think this gets back to some of Redhead's comments on earlier threads - - What is needed in terms of financial & volunteer resources? And in terms of volunteer management?

Chansen, 

Good suggestion . . . p3

paradox3 - sorry to derail your thread - I would go a step farther - and ask if its time to let go of The United Church of Canada.  We are a 'big tent church' - can we continue to be all things to all people?  The issues we face in 2014 are the same issues we  faced (and talked about ad nauseam) in the 90's and 80's and 70' and 60's.  Organizatons like World Vison, Care International, Oxfam, Habitat for Humaity do global outreach really well.  When I was younger global outreach was about raising funds to feed the hungry children in India or Africa.  Well now the hungry children from India and Africa are our neighbours.  Ministers are stretched to their limits - let them give up their presbytery and conference duties.  Generally speaking, society does not trust institutions, which is what the UCCan is.  I think  local community churches could work wonders if we spent our M&S dollars, presbytery dues, assessments etc. locally.

The user conduct and guidelines are fine (and some of us including me have been given a lot of lattitude). There is no "mission/ vision/ foundational statement / statement of principles that are core to the organization, though, because there is none. For example- when one joins/ adheres to the UCC or UU, their social justice values and principles are clear. The ethic of the host organization is clear.

We're a website and its users - not a church.
.
If you think we need something like that, write a draft, or at least provide examples. Just saying "we need x" doesn't really solve anything. Show us an example of what you're looking for, and maybe people will buy in. If people like they idea, go ye forth and work on it. Us techies have our hands full, and we're not trying to dominate all aspects of this. We can get a platform up and running. It's up to all of us to determine how it is run.

I know. But you are an organization. Depending on the tone and values certain worldviews are not welcome in some environments (take grass roots community centres vs. business environments for example- totally different climates- has nothing to do with religion- the ethics are completely different), and people are easily ostracized. I don't really feel I have to explain it more than that and I don't want to get too personal- that's personal enough. I have discovered how quickly a person can get on the "outs" of this community, and it's hurt me. Once bit, twice shy.

Kimmio

Hold on to your horses.....:).....you're in too big a hurry!

I'm sure the new WC  website will be available to the public just as the present WC is without having to join or register. So....you can read on it and see how its doing , see if you like it or not.....yes....? 

Edit...Kimmio

Sometimes I read on this Catholic website in the non Catholic section. I'm christened Catholic.....lol..

http://forums.catholic.com/forumdisplay.php?f=14

Once things are set in place it's harder to suggest reconsideration - as we've found out from this experience.

Kimmio - I'm puzzled by your claim that the new forum will be an organisation.  Could you explain that to me?  I think it will be an online community same as it is now.  The fact that WC was started by the UC didn't turn it into an organisation, or an official congregation.  Neither did it guarantee that unpleasant things were said, viewpoints challenged, opinions spouted that aggravated other people.  There shouldn't be much change in that when it becomes the new WC.  

An online community with main decision makers is an online organization- the same as in person but online- it helps to be clear on what values/ ethics drive the organization before committing to it- that's important to me. And if they don't align with my own I'd at least like to be clear on what I'm joining. It will have an owner(s). Even more so. The WC is a an "outreach ministry" of a larger organization. They are currently the owner and their ethics and values set the tone.

For example, the Code of Ethics underpinning one type of association/ organization of people might be totally different than the Code of Ethics underpinning another type, both are conscientious and feel they're just but they might be at odds. So, a person going into it with different ethics/ values is going to be an outsider. I'd like to know ahead of time. I'd like to be clear. And if negotiations/ compromises have to happen it would be good, I think if we got it out of the way sooner rather than later. But it's not my call. So, I'd like to know, too, if my perspective is welcome, so I know where I stand.

Hmmmm.........I didn't notice that the fact that WC was an 'outreach of the UC' prevented people from saying things that I found objectional or stupid!  Sometimes the tone got quite revolting. 

Your views are just as welcome as anyone else's, just as my opinion is mine alone.  There have been times when my buttons got pushed and I just reacted (usually not a smart choice!), and other times when I chose to ignore what was posted..  

Kimmio, 

Didn't you say on another thread that you are not planning to join WC2?

Back and forth internal struggle, P3. I guess I'm still weighing the pros and cons. One minute my mind's made up, the next, it's changing. I am attached to this place and people even though our opinions are at odds sometimes.

I hear you, Kimmio. 

Went over there last night to take a look - -  interesting to compare it to Wondercafe.

It is much bigger and it seems to be heavily moderated. There are different categories of membership which are determined by length of time on the site and number of posts made. 

Lots of rules too. I noticed that attempts to prosthelytise Catholics away from their faith are not allowed.  

P3

There is a lot of reading one can do there to pass the time.

Oops...I better not put us off topic....:(

curious what the "red herring" is in the context of the conversations on line.

The idiom "red herring" is used to refer to something that misleads or distracts from the relevant or important issue.^[1] It may be either a logical fallacy or a literary device that leads readers or characters towards a false conclusion. A red herring might be intentionally used, such as in mystery fiction or as part of a rhetorical strategy (e.g. in politics), or it could be inadvertently used during argumentation as a result of poor logic.

Mandella, thanks for clarifying. For the record, I would love to continue in an online community such as this. I suppose my feeling of red herringness is the UCCan portion. I truly appreciate the work you, Pinga and chansen are doing. I'm not sure what I can contribute since I dont have techie skills necessary for some of the work. That being said, I'd be willing to help in some way. The fact that I am far from the centre of Canada needs to be considered.

As a sign of solidarity with the three who have taken up the opportunity for morphing what we have enjoyed, and by which we have been benefited, so that, like the legendary Phoenix, our Cafe may rise from its fall, opening a way for continued engagement and, perhaps, purpose, in a world longing for signs of hope; I am pledging an initial monetary support of $200 to further administrative and other incidental costs.

I will watch for indication of how to make this money available.

George

That's quite a noble pledge George. While I lack the funds to pledge same, I am willing to put up $1.73, a genuine Candian postage stamp, and a valuable coupon to "save $110" on air duct cleaning.

To clarify: did not Pinga declare, on many threads, that she has thrown in the towel?

It seems that it may be chansen and Mendalla.  Perhaps I do not read so well, but it seemed pretty clear in a number of posts that Pinga is out, by her own volition.

I intend to contribute financially to the new version of WC should that be necessary to get it going.

I believe Pinga said somewhere that she is dedicated to working towards the new WC but fresh out of patience with asking for communication from the UC staff. That is just my understanding - you may have a different one - or Pinga may reply herself. 

Hi, you are correct kay

Thank you for your generous offer george. Kay to you as well

we already have offers as well. So awesome

That's wonderful. Let's keep those generous offers rolling in folks.

Pinga, can't help but notice that you didn't thank me for my pledge. Is that because you judge that it isn't high enough for your liking? If so, how sad. Should the measure of generosity be the value of the dollar?

Ah, Jae, stuff it. You do this all the time and I , for one, am not in  a mood to listen to your claptrap. Apologize to Pinga!!!!!

Jae - your words display an enormous lack of mature thought.

I believe I'm old enough to be your mother so I claim the right to say "You owe Pinga an apology for your rudeness". 

Hi Jae,
.
The "Paraclete" comes alongside to support and encourage. Your "cheek" falls short of the mark.
.
George

Apologize for what... I offered what I think at this point I can afford to give. If that is not welcome, so be it. As it is not welcome, I withdraw the pledge. 

Jay, my apologies when i read the coupon to save money on duct cleaning i presumed you were joking. If that was a serious offer then maybe someone would like to translate it into cash

For now, just hold onto it

Okay, will do

I can understand the presumption.

Truth is, while I want to support the project, I just do not have much money to spread around these days. My work is now almost-part-time hours, and I am paying to attend seminary. I should have made my financial state clearer when I made my pledge. I do apologize to you Pinga for not having done so.

Rich blessings.

Jay, there are so many ways to support that aren't financial

When questions come up, provide honest feedback and practical suggestions

Support those who are doing work by facilitating conversations

As others have said this forum will provide lots of opportunity for folks to contribute

Often, when the topic is money I just keep my mouth shut if I havenone to offer. 

I will also contribute something. I owe the WC big time  for all the help they have given me over the years. Thank You...WC...!!!!!

Jae is just being an idiot because he thinks it's funny. It's what he has always done.

Excellent, that's great to hear Pinga :)

Hi All. Thanks for your posts on this thread. The conversation has taken some interesting turns but I am still pondering the question I posed in the OP.  

It just might be time for me to move on for a variety of reasons. Is anyone else thinking this way? It seems from the Show Yourself thread in Social that a few people are considering it. 

Would be very interested in your thoughts if you are in this situation.

Exactly this, Pinga. I am wondering if WC2 is distracting us from the real issue at hand - - how we all feel about this site shutting down. It seems a tad far-fetched to say we are grieving the loss of a website yet I believe that is what is happening. 

An analogy might be the loss of a pet.  The one who died needs to be mourned and honoured before we start thinking of adopting a new one. And the new one needs to be loved for itself rather than being viewed as a replacement.

Forgive me if this analogy doesn't work for you. Before I retired I worked in the mental health field where we processed feelings at great length. Ad infinitum, some woud say :)