I'm not completely comfortable with the idea of keeping these groups exclusive, but I'm not trans, so I will leave that decision up to those who are.

Why not at least provide the link to the open FB group though?

https://www.facebook.com/pages/Trans-and-Gender-Diversity-within-the-United-Church-of-Canada/100967539984108

Thank you, Jordan, for this info.

chemgal,

Of course you do not understand, you have never felt compelled or forced or required to keep your sexuality or your gender identity secret.

People who have never been closeted do not understand it.

Also, public groups are for not just those out but those willing and strong enough to take the crap that will be flung in their direction.

Exclusive does not always mean "we do not want your kind" or "this is our own little club" it is often a matter of safety. The Wondercafe FB has to let you join for that reason.

How would you feel hearing the worst people have to say hurled because you wear a bullseye by simply being someplace where trans people meet?

Can you say why are you uncomfortable?

I am fine with it being a closed, private group.  It's keeping it exclusively for those who are transgendered though.  What about those in a relationship with people who are transgendered or people who are transgender activists?

Also, I do find the instructions to join the group odd.  Privacy is important to the group, but people must friend someone in the group.  What if they wish to have their friends only people they know in real life?  You can add people to a group without being FB friends with them.

I belong to at least one private group that has exclusive membership on FB. I don't see a problem with this. (not that my approval is needed for the record). We all need safe places to connect with others, and some need more privacy/secrecy than others. I hope the group is all that you hope it will be. Maybe one day there will be less need for secrecy. 

The first group Trans and Gender Diversity [within the United Church of Canada] is open to trans people, their friends, family and allies.

The second group is Trans only. It is a private group.

You do not understand that. It makes sense that you do not. .

You have not lived a double life. Your gender and presentation have matched. You do not have secrets that could in many ways ruin your life- cost you your marriage, your job, your children....

Not every TG identifying person has talked to their family, their church....

I recall the feelings of fear and the secrecy. I recall the day I had to talk to my wife and my mom. I had nobody to help me, prepare me... help me with words or what worked for them... nobody to pray with me... I felt alone and everything I had - all I cared about - was on the line....

So, no you do not understand.

The question is, are you willing to?

Personally, I am glad people have a place they can talk as they navigate.

SG, I am not completely closed off.

I am completely understanding of it being a private group.  I even understand it being an exclusive group.  May those who are TG will want to include their partners and will also include them, maybe they won't.  I was sharing my opinion and appreciate you for sharing yours and why you feel that way.

I do think it is a little ironic being asked to share a secret group on an open, online forum.  Also, I think that when you want people to join an online community it is best to link to the site when possible.

Searching Jordan Sullivan on FB shows 7 people (although one has a middle name as well) and I don't think the correct one even shows up in a search.

I do see the need for the private group, and am glad it exsits for those who will benefit from it.

While I have critized some of the logistics, Jordan, I am glad you set up the groups and I hope they are successful!

I am very grateful for both the more public group and the more private group where we can have some privacy and safety for those of us that need it.

I am sure that as time goes on these groups will mature and there will be changes to the memebership criteria.

I do echo much of SG's comments and I really can relate to the sensitivity in being closeted and the hard work it takes to finally come out.

chemgal ..... I would welcome any questions you may have and hopefully I can be a window into this facet of our world. 

Sincerely

Rita

I'm having a horrible day for posting here, sorry.  I want to clarify more without going back and editing.

When I say I understand, I mean it as I am open to what the transgendered community faces, I am coming from a place of sympathy.   I do not have true empathy, as I haven't dealt with being closeted, with having to hide who I am.  I don't at all mean to diminish your experiences.

SG and Rita (as well as others), I do thank you for sharing what you have faced as it does allow me to see things from your perspective a little bit more and to have more compassion and understanding.

chemgal,

I understand that you come from a place of goodwill.

We just do not require safe places to say "I have something to tell you, I am straight" or
"my gender identity and my body parts match". We do not worry on our FB saying "I met a boy/girl" or "I am in love with___" or "I am engaged" in a public post and getting hate spam.

My cousin's daughter just turned 21, the world felt safe to her. Her parents were cool, her classmates were, she came out at 14.... She updated her profile that she was in a relationship with someone named Nicole and it was visible to coworkers and people who were not friends, but they had a link from a radio station event, a house build, a church event.... She realized within hours how sheltered her life was.

We not feel we have to hide or deny or learn to accept that we are straight or gendered... we also do not have to deal with other's disapproval or opinions....

It is hard imaging something you do not know. I could not tell you what it is like to be paralyzed from the chest down... but I can come to understand that someone needs a place to say "I wish they had let me die" and have people understand and not judge and that his/her spouse or children do not hear it or see it.

Thank you, chemgal, for this opportunity to discuss.

It is your willingness and that sense of goodwill that allows it.

SG, thank you for seeing past the words in my stumbling posts to see the actual message.

Oops... for a second there I thought this thread was titled, "NEW - The UCC "Train Network"! Spread the news!

But it's not Jae.  Did you check out the open FB page?  If so, what did you think?

That's not funny.

LOL MC Jae ..... good one!

I misread sometimes too...

Regards

Rita

well the network is working-this also appeared in my e-mail inbox.  It was forwarded to all presbytery reps.

If you wouldn't mind a silly question ...

Can someone explain the difference between transgender and transsexual identities?

paradox3,

Transgender is an umbrella term for anyone who has gender issues. They may live in their body of birth feeling it is not quite who they are, they may be intersexed, they may cross dress with or without living as the gender they are dressed as, they may take hormones, they may have surgery.... and that term - transgender - covers them all.

Some people have SRS (sex reassignment surgery). Some live as genderqueer. Some live as a third gender. Some live in ambiguity.

Think of transgender as that umbrella people fit under.... kind of like how lesbian is an umbrella term for the many faces of women who love women (from very butch to very femme to androgynous....)

Transsexual was/is a term used for those who undergo surgical procedures. I say is because some still use it and was
because many have discarded it.

Some post operative people do not like being called transsexual because they are the new gender. Some embrace it.

Some trans identifying but non-operative people do not like to use transexual because others can think surgery is for everyone.... .

For me, trans includes all transgender presentations.

• intersexed

• genderqueer

• third gender

What do these things, mean, Stevie? Thank you for your very informative post and for your patience, by the way.

and I learned that gender is who you identify with and that is different than -or can be different than who you are attracted to.

One can be genetically male but identify as female-and then be attracted to males or females or both...... Same holds true other way around.

I believe intersex refers to some XX cells and some XY cells in body.

(Hey Paradox-did you read the article in CAOT by OTs who were LBQ (none were T so they declined to speak about that)?)

Fundamentally, they are evidence that a 'soul' (some kind of inherent human essence) exists.

And there are different BS (belief systems) that discerns what this means.

Here are just 3 of them

Social Marxists (who are also materialists) believe that society is always a conflict between, essentially, the haves and the have nots.  So the haves invents these things called 'gender norms' for everyone to fit into.  Most people can.  However, some can't.

Equality theorists are those who believe that there are two sexes but that they are complementary.

The gendernauts are similar or even a kind of transhumanist who believes that it is up to society to encourage and enable people to express their diversity (but note that 'diversity' here means something different from the Corporate PC Speak of 'diversity' which is really just another form of authoritarianism).

Intersexed is something most are somewhat familiar with, at least in those cases previously called hermaphrodism. The term hermaphrodite is misleading and as such has stigmatized people, many prefer intersex. (I do)  An intersex person is born with a genetic, reproductive or sexual anatomy that doesn’t seem to fit the typical/societal definitions of female or male.

http://www.isna.org/faq/what_is_intersex

Third gender or genderqueer are terms for those people who do not see a binary gender. They may live between two genders, blur the lines of gender, be genderless, be fluid in gender....

http://genderqueerid.com/what-is-gq

This is part of why some congregations go through the Affirming process, though you can make the same strides without the official Affirm process.

Part of accepting, welcoming and embracing people comes from understanding who they are. Even when you cannot or do not understand, a basic grasp of the terms helps. It helps folks not react negatively to hearing them or shocked when they learn what it means That helps =)

Having open dialogue with someone willing to engage is far better than having someone show up and feel like a specimen or an attraction... people should not be burdened with someone else's learning.

Some of us are willing to step out and help people learn.

As one of those people, can I say, ya'll rock!

Thanks for your willingness to do so, SG!

chemgal,

No I didn't, so n/a.

Rich blessings.

Thanks Rita.

I'm glad you got the joke.

Rich blessings.