I totally hear what you are saying!  I live in Toronto and have been searching for a United Church family/congregation to join for years.  This is the denomination I was born and confirmed into.  All I have found are empty, boring, spiritually dead, irrelevant communities struggling to survive. 

Sounds like you need something NOT United Church.  Try maybe an Alliance. They are non-denominational CHRISTIAN. 

Oh? The Alliance Church is formally called the Christian and Missionary Alliance. Just like the United Church of Canada, they are a separate denomination, not "non-denominational". They are theologically conservative and much more literalist than the United Church. the question of ordination of women is currently a hot topic within, discussion restricted, however, to Alliance personnel only.

Their denominational web site:

http://cmalliance.ca/index.php

If I lived in Toronto, I would love to attend Metropolitan United, downtown. That's an active, bustling, out-reaching congregation.

Because United Churches are often neighbourhood churches, and try to accommodate a wide range of theologies, you may need to attend a weekly bible study to get some of the deeper Christian education you seem to crave. We're working on a Paul series in my group, and I've read more of Acts and the Paul letters in the last two weeks than I'd ever hear from the pulpit. 

There are preachers and there are preachers.  Some are excellent speakers with pleasant voices and the ability to 'project' their personality, beliefs and ideas from the pulpit.  They have developed an effective preaching style that suits their congregation.  And there are other very sincere ministers who do not have a talent for preaching but are good at pastoral care, or teaching small groups, and I suppose there are ministers who struggle to meet the demands or their profession, and a few who have given up the struggle and are just going through the motions.  

I've sat in church for years listening to a very devote, well educated, intelligent man who delivered a well thoughout out, meaningful sermon every week, and almost put the congregation to sleep with his boring, flat, delivery style.  And I have visited churches where the minister was friendly, outgoing, charming, who stirred up the congregation with his dynamic delivery but who had very little content to his sermon.  I'd prefer the boring one.  

There are several things you could try.  

You could remain in this congregation, ask about and offer to help organize a Bible study group (if there isn't one already),  talk to the people on the worship committee and/or offer to join, talk to the minister (ask for an appointment) and bring up some of your concerns.  

I would try this first, especially if you otherwise feel at home in this church, it is near your home, and/or you like the congregation and are involved in some aspect of church life (outreach, choir, Christian Development).   Remember too, ministers come and ministers go.  Perhaps it won't be long before there is a change in pastoral relations and this minister moves on to another church and you may really like the new one.

If that doesn't work, you could do a bit of church shopping.   Is there another UCC within your area where you might find a better fit for your theology?   Or is it time to look for another denomination?

if a church isn't igniting that fire in you, then move on....

i second whomever it was who said 'there are preachers and then there are PREACHERS...'  THAT has been my experience to a 't'.

when i was attending the catholic church, i recall 2 priests in my 20 years who could deliver a sermon that would lift you so high you had to look down to see heaven.   the rest of the priests i worshipped with just didn't register with me... they were probably the most intelligent guys in the room, but their delivery and attitude was not in sync with what i needed for my faith journey at the time.

i've had a few UCC ministers who were the same... their sermons were thoughtful, challenging, and so well delivered that you thought about it for the entire week.  i've also heard a few who had more letters behind their name than stephen hawking, but couldn't deliver a pizza let alone a sermon.

don't stay in a congregation that doesn't feed your faith journey... find one that does.  doesn't matter if it is the same denomination or even the same religion... i know a few people who have had their christian faith deepened by worshipping in completely different faith traditions for awhile.

one friend in particular worshipped with the buddhist faith for a few years, and said that it deepened her relationship with god in amazing ways.

If you're looking for another church that may better suit your spiritual needs, try the People's Church. Their web site is http://www.livingtruth.ca. Their senior pastor, Charles Price, is an excellent speaker and uses his sermons as a teaching tool, preaching directly from the Bible. Theologically, they are consistent with the roots of the United Church, having been founded by a Presbyterian minister only a couple of years after the United Church of Canada was formed.

His sermon series are packaged on DVD for small group study, and we have found them useful in our local ministry.

I share the frustrations others have expressed in this thread. Born, raised, baptised and confirmed in the United Church of Canada, I now serve as an elder in our local pastoral charge. Our minister was raised Baptist, and has a more conservative theological approach.

There is a lot of variety in the United Church as far as theology goes. Just browse the threads here on Wondercafe.  You will likely find that the urban congregations are more liberal in their theology, the rural congregations more conservative on the whole, but that's not always the case.

Sola gracia.

- Banquo

Hi narrowgate,

I suspect that this is the crux of your problem.

You aren't getting what you want.  I'm sure that we all could have a huge conversation about whether or not you are being offered what you need instead of what you want but I'm not sure, from your description, that there is that much of a difference at this point.

It is a pretty common thing/attitude to everyone.  If I don't get what I want I'll . . . .   I have heard it from theological liberals when confronted with theologically conservative stuff and I have heard it from theological conservatives when confronted with theologically libberal stuff.  Essentially it translates into I'm comfortable only with the stuff that makes me comfortable.  And everyone, so it would appear, is comfortable with Christianity in slivers rather than wholes.

So, since this congregation is no longer palatable to you it is time to shop around for a congregation that can provide you with what you want.

I agree with you watering down/dumbing down our religion isn't a workable solution.  Sadly, such practice is not limited to any one theological end of the spectrum.

I disagree withou you about trying to win the respect of the athiests.  If the church is not working actively at trying to win the respect of its neighbours, and athiests are our neighbours then we can hardly hope to provide any testimony that is respectable.

Perhaps it is the method employed to earn respect that is the problem.  While I am aware that most athiests would not agree with the Christian faith that I as a Calvinist work with (in that regard they aren't much different from some of my fellow Christians who also do not agree with Calvinism) I don't believe my belief leads me to automatic hostility with athiests.

If all Church is going to be reduced to is preaching to the choir (winning only the respect of the like-minded) then it deserves to die.

Not knowing where you are currently worshipping or whom it was whose preaching you approved of makes suggesting alternatives tricky.  Still, from what you have shared you might want to put Islington United on your shopping list.  Rev. Mark Aitchison is the Senior Minister there and he tends to be more conservative in his theology (or he used to be--I haven't had an opportunity to talk with him since he left St. Paul's United in Paris ON.

The following link will take you to podcasts of Mark's sermons and you can decide if Islington United might fill your needs.

http://www.islingtonunited.org/video/index.shtml

I wish you success in your search.  Grace and peace to you.

John

I think it's safe to say you've already lost most of the atheists.  I think what you have to be concerned about, is people asking good questions, and either receiving bad answers or no answers to them. 

The problem that I see, is how do you respond honestly to skeptical questions, without turning people away?  I think the main problem then, is that people are asking good questions.  They should probably stop that.

A popular response to skeptical questions, at least around here, is to portray God as part of everything all around us, and extending into the unknown.  While poetic, I find these answers to be attempts to salvage something of Christianity from the clutches of good questions.  By being a "big tent" sort of atmosphere where many different ideas of "God" are allowed and encouraged, parhaps you have a point that Christianity is being "watered down" within the UCCan.  The counter point to that is, if the UCCan became more theologically rigid, would that attract people who ask good questions, or chase them away with a pitchfork?

I'd argue pitchfork.  If people want to be told how to believe, other denominations already have that market covered.

So, I see the UCCan as between a rock (of ages) and a hard place:  Losing conservatives to denominations with more improbable beliefs on one side, and skeptics and those just no longer interested in what it has to offer on the other.

If YOU know what YOU WANT and YOU don't want what OTHERS offer… how about starting your own denonomination or sect. There are precedents galore and there's often money in it.

Hi narrowgate,

Come join us in the Fellowship Baptist denomination. Our services are filled with wonderful words about Jesus, God, and growth in Christ. Our pastors are unashamed of the Gospel and to take a stand for Christ. I'm not claiming that those things are unique to our denomination, but they certainly exist within.

You can find our statement of beliefs here... http://www.fellowship.ca/qry/page.taf?id=310

Our church directory is here...

http://www.fellowship.ca/qry/page.taf?id=532

Praying for you as you continue your spiritual journey.