I wanted to ask this question on one of these threads , so here goes. I hope it is on topic.

I thought there was a theological reason that we presented the offering and on the Sunday that we have communion, the elements are offered as well.

Does anyone have an answer?

Our congregation has been doing a pledge campaign for several years now, and I believe it has been successful. Having said that, I feel quite uncomfortable with the idea. I feel uncomfortable with the idea of writing my name on a piece of paper along with the amount I plan on giving over the next 12 months. If you don't make a pledge,the committee in charge will actually phone you and "remind" you. I find this process to be embarrassing. I don't make a lot of money, so I can't afford to donate much. I give what I can and choose to donate my time in lieu of money - I have served as a Sunday School teacher and on several teams over the past few years.

I have no particular problem with a pledge campaign. It's very helpful for budgeting purposes to have some idea of what the income of the church might be. We started doing a pledge campaign a couple of years ago as part of a much bigger stewardship campaign. It's been successful in making the needs known and givings have increased. However, the only person who sees the pledge cards is the envelope steward (the one who records the givings for tax receipting purposes.) He's going to know how much a person gives anyway. Someone has to know for the purpose of receipting. 

Now that many of us "identifiable givers" are on PAR (pre-authorized remittance) oour offering plates are much emptier and becoming redundant.

 We don't 'pass the plate' anymore - for a variety of reasons. There are boxes located at each of the doors into the worship space, in which people are welcome to put any financial offering they feel called to give.

We, too, have an ongoing stewardship programme, which includes a 'commitment Sunday' - though we are also very clear that if one's commitment needs to change throughout the year, they simply need to let the envelope steward know. As Stephen mentioned, it helps a great deal with our planning for future ministry, because we have a sense of the financial resources that are going to be available for the work.

Christ's peace - r

We not only receive an offering every Sunday, we also have an annual stewardship commitment emphasis for five Sundays in September/October. We use a variation of the celebration model, which invites annual commitment in worship. It works. We are pleased with the results.

So is there no answer to my question?

For me, the offering is presented because the offering is an integral part of an act of worship. I don't find that having baskets at the back of the church for people to toss a few bucks in as they leave sufficient, although obviously others feel differently about that. That's also one of my gut objections to PAR. As convenient and helpful as it may be to the giver, it also renders giving a somewhat thoughtless act, just as in the same way I don't think much about the fact that on the 22nd of every month my car insurance payment will come out of my bank account. I think there is symbolic importance to the "act" of giving. So - no - I personally don't push PAR, nor do I use PAR. My Finance Committee likes PAR. I guess we've agreed to disagree, and if they want it promoted I invite them to promote it.

As to the elements at a Communion service, I'm not entirely sure what you mean by "presenting" the elements, so before I can offer a definite answer, I'd need some clarity on that point. If you mean bringing them forward in the same way that the offering is brought forward, we don't do that. The table is set - elements and all - before the service begins.

Yes, I have seen the elements brought forth to the table - loaf of bread, Goblet of Wine (juice) and bread collected for a mission house and the offering. - offering being gifts of money, gifts of outreach and the elements.-

Our communion elemnts are brought forward with the offering. Tho sometimes it is just a symbolic loaf and pitcher of juice-the rest already being on the table.

Bringing the elements forward with the offering before communion is served is one way of practicing the Sacrament.  Having the table all prepared as we arrive at the banquet is another way.  Both are used in the UCCan (some would suggest that the former is more Methodist and the latter more Presbyterian).

THere is a strong theology of having the offering taken as part of the act of worship.  It reminds us that we are called to respond.  It can also be a tool of stewardship education.

I always felt that the offering and the importance it seems to have in the service is a relict of the goats and pidgeons that were offered on the altar in Biblical times. Only on Thanksgiving I feel it is differently, as it is a special celebration of the gifts we are getting.

The offering is part of my budget. Therefore, PAR works just fine. If I get a tax refund, part of it will go to the church. We need to say that money is needed to pay the minister and keep the church building up- and if repairs are needed it should be mentioned ASAP.

Being an inclusive church, I am against pledge campains- it will just make people who can't afford much uncomfortable. The church should be the place you can go to without being asked for money. If the finances of a congregation are getting so bad that the fundraising is overtaking the faith formation program then it's time to think about other options.

Don't those statements contradict each other?

Rev. Davies,

No, they don't. You can say what is needed (and often this stays very wishy washy in churches and is only discussed in detail among the Stewards. To the congregation is only said: Our budget is   $XXXX and we are now $20000 short. Give more.

You need to aproach it like World Vision- make it visible. Like give $20 and you buy a goat for a family.

We need to replace the windows for $XXX. You can make a donation in an envelope. You can also come and help with the work or the clean up (we need x number of people for that) and here is who to contact for that. Make sure that people are known and approachable. Running the affairs of the church seemed to me often as an insider job. The committee knows, we just have to give them our money. If people don't feel they have an influence on things, they don't contribute.

I think that people first need to find their place in a church and feel comfortable and accepted there before they actively start to contribute. If you bug the Single mom with the request for baking cookies for the bake sale everytime she manages to collect the kids and makes it to church, relaxing in the pew while finally the kids are looked after by someone else for an hour, she won't show up anymore. She probably doesn't have the time to bake cookies for her own kids very often. But if she is integrated and feels accepted and the needs of the church are openly discussed, she can pick up  and choose the contribution she is able to do, which might be something very different from what you thought.

We have one guy attending our church who looks like he sleeps under a bridge. (He does not, but I am not sure what state his home is in). He sometimes gives a dime or quarter in the offering. I am quiet sure he has to use the food bank. Would it make sense to give him a pledge sheet?

So if we would give out pledge sheets, do we skip him? (Like I saw some people tend to skip him at offering time, too.) What does that make him feel? I think, it would probably be really good for him, if he would get a chance to contribute, as contributing gives meaning and a sense of belonging but money is definitely not the answer. So the question is if there is a contribution he would like to do, maybe collecting the coffee cups after the social time. But this will have to go with his level of confort and he himself will have to choose it.

I have asked him to be on a small committee, which meets right after church and looks at how we welcome new people. He has participated and I hope he will in the future.

My son attends the Baptist youth group. I compare this to other youth programs and send them a appropriate donation. I also brought my son's two classmates to this group, who just love it, but would never have had the idea of going there. Both come from families with many kids and little money, so regular extra curicular activities are out of the budget. The one mother, single, working 10hr shifts as a cook, sends cookies occassionally and has donated a craft item to their auction. Her son, who has some learning issues and used to avoid all reading, has started to read the Bible through the influence of the youth minister, who has given him one. I dare to say, that all of this has only happened because nobody has set a fee or asked for a donation for this youth group.

correction: Of course they fundraise for the Youth group- I meant- ask the parents personally.

I'm afraid that I take a look at it from a very different direction.

In many congregations (and liturgies) the taking up of the offering, and the offering prayer, become *the* central act in the worship service. Think about it: brass plates passed back and forth from person to person, brought to the front with a sung fanfare, followed by a prayer that tends to be focused on what is on those plates.

If we're living out a theology that includes hospitality to guest & newcomer as central, then we need to ask ourselves what it means to have the expectation of financial support tangibly expressed by the offering plate being passed into our hands. Our stewardship programmes have worked to help participants make an active choice to share their financial resources with God's ministry through the work of the congregation, helping them to explore what that means to them, and making sure that the necessary resources are there (eg. envelopes & a place to put them, PAR, etc.) for when they come to the place in their faith journey where they are ready to make that step.

I don't want people to feel like they *have to* financially support the mission and ministry of the church, until they are ready to commit themselves to that mission and ministry. (A response based on commitment, rather than duty, I guess.) So we do stewardship education in other ways. We have prayers of thanksgiving that are focused on all the gifts of our lives, of which our financial abilities are only one. 

Part of the whole stewardship campaign is the really clear message that, "this whole thing is a conversation you need to have with God. What do you believe is appropriate for you to be sharing?" On our forms, people can check off the box that says, "I'm not able to name a commitment", which is a more than appropriate response! They can write "$0" in, if they want! The numbers we get back form the basis upon which the Elders can plan for the coming year(s).

Because I pay for just about everything by online banking, pre-authorized accounts, or electronic transfer, it makes complete sense for me to use PAR (or, in my case, deduction from my salary) as a way of ensuring that my financial offering gets to the church. It makes what I am able to share with the congregation to live out the ministry to which God has called us, a normal part of my life. For me, it calls me to look at all those other things that are coming out of my account, and ask, "Am I using these funds in a way that live Christ's love?" I am as conscious of this gift of God as I am of the financial resources I am able to share with the rest of the citizens of Canada (and of the world) through the money that is deducted from my salary and sent to Revenue Canada, or the money that I set aside for future possibilities in my RRSP.

(*grin* Yeah, I am kind of passionate about this one.)

Christ's peace.

Why? Do you think we're going to hurt you over this?   

 *LOL* No... though I have been in some quite passionate liturgical debated. *grin*