HI waterfall,

Possible yes.  Probable?  I have my doubts.

I don't know the answer to that.

Obviously when the funding for the Emerging Spirit Campaign was used up and the decision to close the Emerging Spirit Campaign down there was a sentiment within the wider Church that WonderCafe.ca deserved more than to be closed up.

That sentiment no longer dominates discussion where WonderCafe.ca is mentioned.

To know how and why it previously dominated and why it no longer appears to we would need to know more than we have been told though it shouldn't be hard to guess why there has been a change of opinion.

New members, name ten that we have added in the last year and don't go to the membership list name them off the top of your head.  And it isn't like we have a crazy high number of folk coming in.  We have so few.

Legacy members, folk who have been here from the beginning.  How many still remain?  Have we even managed to replace every legacy member we have lost?

Honestly?  It would look selfish.  

None of us here are upset that WonderCafe.ca denies others an opportunity to join.  All of us are upset because it means something we value is being taken away from us.

It is probably exactly like a regular church.  We were content getting what we got at no expense to ourselves and now that it is being taken away we are still trying to figure out how to ensure that we keep getting it at no expense to ourselves.

It isn't impossible.  I'm not sure of how probable it is.

I believe we do.

The question is what dollar value am I willing to put on this worthwhile internet community?  Why shouldn't I face that question when the Church itself is staring directly at this question?

What am I willing to cut from my personal and/or family budget to ensure WonderCafe.ca stays open?  In a family of five where I am the only one who shows up let alone participates what are they going to do without so that I don't have to lose?

There are 20 431 registered members on WonderCafe.ca's Member List.  Even if we got $1 from all of those accounts we'd be short.  $2 per year from all of them would allow us to build surplusses that could account for inflation and the like.

Of course I expect that the vast majority of those 20 431 came, saw and left without uttering a peep.

So realistically, what are we talking about numbers wise in terms of membership and how much would each of those members need to chip in to keep the site up and running as we expect?

Grace and peace to you.

John

And I presume, this would be said,"I will give 20,00 a year to Wondercafe.ca but it will have to come out of my church and M&S Givings." or  "I want to help replace our roof on the church."

Revjohn I'm not so sure that we are selfish. I see some amazing people here that nurture one another. And in that way, IMO, we are viable.

Yes some are more vocal than others and some may just read and form opinions that help shape their lives.

Hi waterfall,

We aren't completely selfish.  That doesn't mean we are immune to selfishness.  Any effort to get others to pay to keep WonderCafe.ca open so that we can continue to enjoy free and easy access to WonderCafe.ca is inherently selfish.  It is no less selfish when we say we are willing to pay $X so that we can continue to use it.  We only move into realms of selflessness when we say that we will pay $X so that others can use it.

We are viable.  We can live and we can grow.  Can we do that on our own?  We know that WonderCafe.ca is being cut so some other ministry will not be cut.  Which ministry would you cut so that WonderCafe.ca would be spared?

That is the problem with the budget process at present.  It results in winners and losers because there is not enough funding available to all.

WonderCafe.ca has thrived in a hothouse environment where everything it needs to continue has been provided.  Could WonderCafe.ca survive if all of those supports were no longer freely available?

Our ability to be vocal is neither a strength or a weakness when the matter is purely budgetary.  Heaven forbid that we only do squeaky wheel ministry in the United Church.  Where need takes second place to a champion's ability to squawk.

Even if I had $30 000 laying around and I could solve the budget problem for this year.  I would need another $30, 000 for next year.  

Grace and peace to you.

John

Hi crazyheart,

Probably.

That just points to a general "cheapness" of character.

Grace and peace to you.

John

Reminiscing, John, back in the 90's to make a point against different sex in the pulpits. many United Church people showed their displeasure by holding back offerings ( especially to M& S)................. a general"cheapness of character"

Hi crazyheart,

I agree.  I am not a fan of chequebook membership.

Grace and peace to you.

John

If WC is able to be transferred to a different format that is basically affordable (info I can't even guess at) I would be delighted to pledge a something.  

We are in agreement that FB isn't useful to us.  Other places have been suggsted and I await further info as and when it can be given. 

Keep in mind that we won't just need $$$$. While Pinga, chansen, and I are currently looking at volunteering to run a spinoff board if that the route we go, we will also need some people to form a board of some kind and look after things like handling money, setting policies, etc. We're the techies and the ones with experience with things like system administration and moderation but I don't think we should be the only ones running the show. After all, we have families, day jobs, and community involvements as well. If we have tons of cash but all the work falls on the three of us, it will fail as surely as if we don't have the cash.

That's assuming it goes independent. If it stays UCCan, then cash is going to be the biggest issue because Aaron and friends will likely continue to provide the technical expertise.

Mendalla

If there is a job identified that I could do/assist with - count me in.

The problem with the UCCan saving WC is that we're kicking the can down the road. What's to say we're not right back here in a year or two? I'd expect it, because there just doesn't appear to be any willingness to operate this place, except from Aaron. While my opinion of Aaron's admin decisions ranges from "disagreement" to "second degree facepalm", I do appreciate his support of WC.

Still, the more I think about it, the more I'd prefer to see an independent WC. The details, of course, would have to be ironed out. But it's not like WC is actively marketing WC, or provides us with anything more than web space and an admin, at a whacking big cost to them. And, free of its connection to the UCCan, we wouldn't be walking on eggshells with some topics. Typically, a small volunteer council would run the place, at least initially. You could make it so that the council has to include at least one UCCan member, one other Christian, one who self-describes as "spiritual", and one atheist (say). And then, just run it on a low cost basis and even the occasional donation would keep it afloat. Lots of forums run like that for years. 

Three months after the decision was handed down, and with 5 months until close, that's where I'm at.

I don't see it as selfish.  We fund items all thetime that I do not expect to get benefit from; however, others will.  

People come to this site other than those who register.  I don't presume to understand the breadth of that readership, or the breadth of posters.  

The initial estimates were crazy for fudning wondercafe.  They continue to be ridiculous, in my opinion.  I won't determine the amount of $$ per person required so, no, not playing the numbers gam.

I have not been asked if I would fund and if so, how much..

I started a thread to ask if wondercafe could be a congregation.  I took it to facebook. There have been some interesting conversations that flew from it.

I don't believe that wondercafe itself coud be a congregation; however, I do see the elements of a congregation in the membership/ regular posters, and could see that wondercafe was a mission of such a virtual congregation.

Unlikely to fly in the current structures, just would be impossible; however, for some this is the place we head to in order to discuss matters of faith...