Well Pinga, just on the question of terminology I would offer that ministry is a profession not a "call".   Certain kinds of "jobs" are called professions because one must literally "profess" that role to do it.  A doctor or lawyer (and every true professional) fulfils his or her role every minute of every day.  Day or night.  It is not something you "do" it is something you "are".  For this reason, one must be "called" to any real profession.    This suggests to me that if one is looking for proxies and comparables for persons engaged in the profession of ministry one ought to look at the experience of other professionals in other fields.  What do they do?  What problems fo they suffer?  How do they handle them?

So how do doctors and lawyer's do it?  In general, they do it by sacrificing their own personal time (because almost by definition a professional's personal time is unused public professional time) and later their health and their general wellbeing.   Lawyers and doctors however, have something that ministers seem not to have, namely, the power to send out an invoice for additional compensation when a job or jobs expand to consume more time than it was originally estimated they would. 

Ordained ministers answer a call without time.

Diaconal, I don'y know.

Other paid accountable ministers are appointed within a time frame and reappointed at the end of the term or not.

Please correct me.

Members of the Order of Ministery (ordained or diaconal ministers) have calls without time limit. Others have appointments whith time limits.

I would use the word "vocation" as opposed to call or profession.

No. it's always been that way. But the model that the minister has to do everything and be everywhere is simply unhealthy. There are some things I do not do. I do not do youth work.  (lay people do that). I do not visit in nursing homes other than by request (lay visitors do that weekly). I do visit in the hospital (lay visitors do not do that)

By having clear job descriptions and realistic expectations. And by being good stewards and suppoting the work of the congregation.

Yes.

Thanks, DKS.

I really do see that with the shifts, there are just so many dreams of opportunities for weekends, etc, but also a recognition, that a minister isn't working evenings & days...or shucks...can't do that and days too..and plus..you kinda know if you are going into evenings.

Example of Qwerty's.  If I go into ER medicine, then I know that my work is going to be when others are not working...the volume of work is not lower on friday nights.

If I go into say, family medicine, though, my volume of work is less, and there is coverage, you have a bit different expectiation.

example: my work...i know the expectations..and i tell our guys..you will work weekends, you may have to work when you don't want to.  We don't do single-point support for that reason!  It is crazy to try.  You kill people due to stresses of "fix this outage or go to kids' play" . In a team environment, you do the tag team transfer, and go to the kids play.

so.the idea of having a team , even a team in a city ie a team with multipoints, makes sense to me.  

in addition, the responsibility of the lay, and the clear boundaries makes sense to me, ie what is reasonable to do so that there is still balance.

thanks folks for your thoughts.

i'm curious if any ministers have hired "weeknight / weekend" ministry shift, ie 2nd shift.

Clarification:  SOmetimes it is needed that a member of the Order of Ministry is appointed with time limit.  An example would be Intentional Interim or Retired Supply.  In some instances the appointment makes them uneligible for a call to the same place afterward.

And as to the OP, if your working hours have changed then so have your off hours.  No more time is automatically needed.

And that is a spiritual discipline. Taking appropriate time for yourself and setting boundaries is essential in ministry. To quote the AGCO "Know when to say no".

ok, so...how are congregations currently doing it?  Are churches offereing Saturday and evening programming, and if so, how? 

I'm not aware of any programing at all.  There are meetings, choir practise, fundraising activities.

Pinga - I think that it is probably a given that a minister will work many evenings each week as well as Sundays (at least until noon).  Also their Saturdays will also often be tied up with weddings, and with activities going on in the church.  Some weeks will be busier that others, depending on the season of the year, the activities of the congregation that require the minister's attention, and the number of seriously ill or dying (funerals). 

So the congegation has to work with the minister to budget her time.  She needs and deserves time off each week - how about Sunday noon to Tuesday noon - baring emergencies.    That gets it down to a five day week.  How many hours?   We all know that most ministers work more than the standard 40 hour week.  But if they are working most evenings, then it should be possible for them to take mornings or afternoons off - work flex hours. 

Think of some of the advantages:  sleeping in if that's your thing.  Getting the groceries during the day when the stores aren't so crowded.  Enjoying time in the garden during the day.  Volunteering at your kid's school, arranging to take your kid to the doctor or dentist, going to your kid's school play or sports event. 

I also think that minister's have to be careful not to offer to do too much at the church, and the congregation shouldn't expect them to.  The minister doesn't have to be the one to pick up the corn for the congregational cornboil, or set up the chairs for the concert.  Nor does she need to prepare the annual report (that's the job of the church board).  Or even teach all the adult courses and lead all the discussion groups.  Part of her job should be to delegate responsibilities and empower the laity to take an active part in leadership at the church. 

Ideally I think the minister and the congregation should be able to work together in finding a reasonable working arrangement so that the minister doesn't have to do everything and burn out.

I know that Presbytery Conference and general Council work is needed and expected but I think the minister has to determine how much is too much. I know some who work so much in the other courts of the church that the Pastoral Charge suffers.

Right, my presumption is that a minister shouldn't be working every day.....and that in active churches which have one minister, there are too many pulls.

so....my question really is...

how are churches with one minister doing it?  My sense is that volunteers have a responsibility to a certain point, but there are  some items which really see an advantage when there are staff oversight...or constant / committment, with volunteers being the secondary resource.

looking at some of the churches around, i see they have a number of "minister of ___ " listed, who appear to be lay folks...not sure if they differentiate between paid/accountable  & volunteer.

are churches using dlm, to help fill in those times, and thereby getting the paid accountability, and sharing the load of the person who is in the order of ministry.

In my UU fellowship, it isn't the minister's job to run everything. She does a lot of convening, planning, and training, but it is the committees of the church that put on a lot of what happens. For visitation, we have a Pastoral Care team who make sure that needs of members and friends from pastoral visits to care packages are met. The minister works with, and to some extent leads, the team but there is no expectation that she is solely responsible for visitation. For educational programs, the RE committee does the work unless it's a course specifically being offered by the minister. On social justice initiatives, we used to have a committee but now put together teams to target specific activities. And so on. Hell, even worship is supposed to be a team operation as much as possible (esp. since at least one Sunday a month is lay-led). So, to answer your questions vis a vis my UU world:

a) She doesn't "do it". Her job as a professional minister is to help us do it, not do it herself. If a UU minister is "doing it all", then something's not working.

b) We have a Committee on Ministry that does the personal support, acts as a sounding board, mediates, etc. Beyond that, we support our minister by being there to do the work of the church and recognizing that she's there to help us do our work, not to just do the work.

c) Can't comment. The only church I go to that has a team ministry is the UCC I attend and I'm not really involved enough to know how it works.

Mendalla