If you could explain your lunch examples. it would be appreciated.

Our presbytery often has dinner meetings - RSVP is required & there is usually a $10 charge per person. 

Thanks Carolla.Do they break even or do they make or lose money?, Do you know?

Same with us Carolla. In our case the money raised gets to be used by the host congregation in whatever way they wish. Most just put it into their general funds, but our congregation does it as a fundraiser for our youth group and a few other congregations use it as a fundraiser for other groups that they have in their churches (one congregation operates a soup kitchen, for example).

We have weekend Presbytery meetings and meals are provided by the host congregation. That usually means Fri supper, morning snack and coffee on Saturday, lunch and supper Saturday then potluck lunch after church on Sunday. Sometimes bag lunches are provided for those who have to get on the road right away. As per most church feedings, there's usually lots of leftovers so delegates are encouraged to take some food home with them. Of course the coffee is always on and there's hot water and cold drinks. We pay a small fee for the meals. I'm not sure how that works exactly, and the money goes to the host congregation.

Hi crazyheart,

 

 

Erie Presbytery meets in the evening.  The typical agenda begins at 5pm and concludes around 8:30pm.  Meals are served between 6 and 7pm.  Erie Presbytery promises that all Churches who host will be reimbursed 70 meals at a cost of $12.  Most Presbyters will pay Presbytery $12 to cover expenses.  Invited guests are not expected to pay.

 

My Pastoral Charge will reimburse me for the cost of the meal on the occasion that I remember to ask for it.

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

John and others show a general response, depending on the time a presbytery meets. In one presbytery it was lunch, in ottawa it is supper. The church which hosts gets the money, ottawa $10 and is guarrenteed based on the number expected. Guest do not pay.  Like John some of us are reimbursed travel and costs by our church, if we remember.  Those who don't have churches paying travel ( which means both clergy and lay) can claim a reduced rate from presbytery.  This is also true of conference.fff

I take a brown bag to presbytery, by choice. We meet 4 x year, on two Tuesdays and two Saturdays, over lunch. The local church caters for everyone else at a cost of $10/person.

 

Why... for me it is a time to talk with others,  of course some of us go to the bar after to  have more conversations.

Out of curiosity, we have  approx 8 full packed days from 10 until 4 through out the year and the Executive still seems to have a lot on their plate. How do you do the work with 4 lunch times?

I have dietary and health issues. Doesn't mean I eat alone; just that I got sick and tired of the bad meals, meals I couldn't eat, quizzical looks and "Oh, a little of this won't hurt you". Bar? Not in this part of Ontario where there is zero tolerance to mixing alcohol and driving. But the most significant conversations are the ones I don't have at presbytery.

We are part of the coming wave of church governance. Presbytery does zero business outside of Remits and nominations. The agenda is worship, lunch, a couple of reports (Greenbelt is on the next meeting) and information on new processes. Decisions are made by presbytery commissions or the executive, or in the case of pastoral relations, by the Conference Settlement and Pastoral Relations Committee. The church is changing. In five years you will not recognize what you have. We were where you were five years ago with eight jam-packed monthly meetings a year. No more. Thank goodness.

This Presbytery used to meet over supper (4 til 7 or so, with a dinner break).  Now it meets 11: to 2 or so, with a shorter lunch break). 

Generally they meet every two months except in July and August. Does that work out to five or six meetings a year? Other work is done by committees or the executive. My experience with committees is that they usually try to meet for an hour before the regular presbytery meeting - with phone calls and email in between.
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Meals and snacks are provided by host congregations for a charge. Usually they make a little profit which they use as they please.
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Coffee, muffins, etc. are available on arrival. There is a donation cup by the coffee perk.
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Lunch tickets are sold at the registration table. Over the years they have increased from $5 to $8 or $10. Meanwhile the meal has changed from a dinner (often potluck, or ham and potato scallop, or beef stew, and sometimes a roast beef or turkey dinner) or lunch (soup & sandwich, or salad plate).
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Some people on special diets bring a bag lunch but eat with the group. I don't know what they do about tea or coffee - probably they are served (or self-serve). They may make a donation.
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When we had the longer break for dinner, there was time of socializing. With the shorter lunch break, there is only time for eating, talking with those sitting nearest you, and going to the bathroom.
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I miss the opportunity to mill around a bit and exchange pleasantries and ideas with people I seldom otherwise see. Ours is a large Presbytery spread over a large area. Some people do a lot of driving.
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I have never heard of anyone being reimbursed for their meal. We pay it ourselves. It can create a bit of a hardship for those on a tight budget.
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Presbytery encourages carpooling - reimbursement for mileage is a set amount, plus a bit extra for every extra person in your car. I never take my own car.

seeler what day of the week does your Presbytery meet?

Our Presbytery is very large so that is why we meet over a weekend (Friday around suppertime to Sunday after lunch) I love that this gives us the opportunity to visit and socialize. My first Presbytery meeting involved a bus trip to Whitehorse. It was a great opportunity to get to know people.

We meet on Thursdays. 

I see where DKS says that decisions are made by executive. I thought other bodies are to make decisions  only in an emergency. Why even have a Presbytery?

Hi  crazyheart,

 

 

Well, we could make people sit and wait until everything was ready.  Mind you since some of the stuff Presbytery does depends on work being done at other courts the wait might be some time.  Or we could simply call another meeting at another time if that requires the whole of Presbytery to meet twice in any given month so be it.

 

Grace and peace to you.

John

 

Most decision made at a Presbytery meeting are, frankly, routine housekeeping items.  Presbytery time is better spent doing mission planning or doing activities to empower delegates to go back and support the local PC.  THe key unit of the UCCan is the PC/Local Mission Unit.  All other courts are to support the work that happens there.

 

A court can delegate almost anything to the Executive (an example of an exception is the election of the Conference President).

 

But of course that assumes the court trusts the Executive....

That would really limit involvment of the laity.

Yes it would Northwind unless they are retired or stay at home parents or able to take time off work,

I think that was the idea behind the late afternoon/evening meetings - thinking people would have enough flex-time that they could leave work early one afternoon bi-monthly.   In theory people who worked shifts could request that afternoon off.  People who worked in government or business could arrange their schedules, go in early that morning to get off early, or 'bank' overtime.  That's what I did - every so often I would be asked to work late or work a Saturday, and rather than go through the paperwork to get paid for that time, my boss would trust me to keep track of my hours and take the equivalent time off. 

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But it didn't work out for enough lay people. So they tried meeting on Saturdays. The clergy found Saturday a bad time. Weddings, sermon prep, whatever - apparently Saturday is a bad day for clergy.
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So they went back to Thursdays, but changed it to mid-day so that people wouldn't be travelling after dark. It doesn't seem to affect attendance of lay people. Many UCC people are retirees. We also have a few farmers, or self employed, or seasonal workers who can attend some of the time, depending on their work. And a few women who don't work full time outside the home.

It is not that Saturdays are a bad day for clergy.  It isthat some clergy think their schedule is too important to change.  Given that Presbytery meeting dates are generally known MONTHS in advance it isn't that hard to adjust the weekly schedule for it--we do it for emergent issues like funerals all the time on much less notice.

Lets face it - we're never going to find a "perfect" meeting for presbytery. We meet on Tuesdays. Our division meetings start at 4PM, which doesn't work for those of us who work outside of the church - and, as a result, in my 2 years on presbytery I've only made it to 2 or 3 of our division meetings. Dinner starts at 5:30, which is also usually a problem for me, since my work day ends at 5:30. If the meeting is nearby, I sometimes will try to get off work a little early so that I can have dinner - otherwise I grab dinner on the way somewhere and am able to be there in time for worship, which is at 6:30. On the occasions when the meeting is out of town, I try to take a vacation day. It's not ideal, but I, and the other not retired (and not self-employed) laity in my presbytery, find a way to make it work. I was asked to sit on a sub-committee, but decided to step down, since the meeting times would require me to take a large amount of vacation days (and, funnily enough, that's not how I really want to spend my holidays).

In our case, we have no choice.

Technically, presbytery has oversight over offical church boards in their jurisdiction. (fwiw)

Our presbytery agenda on Saturday:

10:15 a.m.	Spiritual Practices
10:30 a.m.	Registration
11:00 a.m.	Call to Gather Constituting the Court Welcome from Shallow Lake United Church Worship Service: Communion
12:00 p.m.	Business:Business: 1. Opening Motions 2. Executive Motion 3. Introduction of Guests and New Members 4. Announcements 5. Report from Greenbelt
12:30 p.m.	Lunch
1:30 p.m.	Call to Gather Business continued...: 6. Mission Support Grants 7. Rendez Vous Presentation a) PTCC Grant Application
1:55 p.m.	Educational component 1. Camp Simpresca Video 2. Congregational Life Commission (CLC) Presentation 3. Building Connections, Building Community: Effective Leadership Style How does this pertain to Northern Waters Presbytery?
3:20 p.m.	Worship Benediction
3:30 p.m.	Adjournment and safe home

Our presbytery meets on Friday around 4:00 – 8:30 p.m.  (Supper is provided)

Saturday from 9:00 a.m. to noon .  (Snacks and lunch are proived)

Our presbytery meets 4 times a year.

Thanks DKS for sharing that agenda - looks interesting.  IMO we do need to look critically at how Presbyteries conduct themselves - and whether their activities actually support their mission.   Do you find the meetings in your area are well attended and that people participate actively?

I have a question for those of you who live in presbyteries which meet over the course of a couple of days - how are accommodations handled? Do you stay at hotels? Does someone in the hosting congregation welcome you into their home?

 

I agree and our presbytery is in the midst of doing that. In fact our meeting next week will focus on a visioning process that we have been going through.

Somegal, we have the choice of being billetted or of staying in a hotel. If we stay at the hotel, we are responsible for the costs ourselves.

Thanks Northwind!

Attend? Not really. Committee work? Not always. I choose not to do a lot of travel, as it comes from my LMU travel budget. Presbytery is 15 minutes away tomorrow and less than 1 hour away in November. I will probably attend. If it were in the south end of the presbytery, likely not. Same for committee work. I choose not to drive further than 45 minutes away, because my time is valuable. I will participate in a conference call. Part of the issue is I serve an urban congregation in a presbytery dominated by rural churches. It can skew the agenda right out the window. I can only take so much of "woe is me".  

If that were my presbytery, I would likely not attend.

Given the geography of some presbyteries (having served in the two geographocally largest Pressbyteries, apart from ANCC, in the country) we really have no choice.  When it takes some people 6 hours or more to get to a meeting (as it will for a large number of folks in Cambrian Presbytery next weekend) you have to meet for a couple of days.  And since many people no longer choose to be billeted...

 

Same with travel.  I try to avoid it through conference calls when possible.   But last week I got the "privilege" of driving 3 hours each way for a meeting that was 2.5-3 hrs long.  Just the nature of ministry in this area

 

Isn't it one of your job requirements? 

Depends. According to the Service of Covenanting,

Doesn't ask me to attend every presbytery meeting. And I can support the work of the presbytery in ways other than being away for a couple of days, at my own expense.

And that's simply not something I am prepared to accept. I would support the presbytery work in other ways.

When travelling my preferred accomodation is with friends or relatives.  If that isn't in the cards, I will seek out B & B's in private homes.  My last choice in most cases is a hotel or motel.    

When travelling my preferred accomodation is with friends or relatives.  If that isn't in the cards, I will seek out B & B's in private homes.  My last choice in most cases is a hotel or motel.    

I imagine being billeted for a Presbytery meeting would be similar to staying in a B&B. I might check in on arrival during the day, put my stuff in the room I'm assigned, freshen up and go to my meetings. Sometime in the evening I would return. If the family offers me a cup of tea and an invite to sit in the livingroom and watch TV, I might accept, or I might excuse myself and go to my room. Next morning, visit briefly over breakfast. Then take my stuff out to the car, say 'thank-you', and off to the rest of my meetings.
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I suppose some people might have had bad experiences. A dog or cat in the house (a bonus for me but bad for people with allergies); kids getting into your stuff; lonely person expecting you to entertain them; or being expected to share a room with a family member or stranger. That I wouldn't like.
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I've occasionally billeted someone in my home. I've let them know the pet situation in advance. I've respected their time and privacy, and enjoyed their company. I've never had any complaints.

Ok people, get a grip.  Travel – our Presbytery is 300 miles from one end to the other thus we only meet 4 times a year.  London Conference is 8 hours away – and we are expected to travel for a one hour meetings – more often these days conference calls, skype etc.

As for attendance, I expect clergy to be there.  Its 4 meetings – but you would be surprised at how many feel that they can better serve and/or don’t care about Presbytery.  Those doing Presbytery work – ie pastoral care and oversight -  student and education etc….these folks do the work for Presbytery outside of the meeting….however, many clergy that don’t attend for whatever reason are not that involved with anything in Presbytery. 

We all know that we have healthy Presbyteries and unhealthy Presbyteries – and those in transition – we need to be together for community and a sense of belonging – and for some, perhaps they only time they are with other clergy folks…..

For those clergy who “don’t have time” don’t apply at my church.

I know that in our congregation, part of the job description for both of our ministers requires them to attend presbytery meetings - and they are given an adequate amount of paid time to do so. That said, our meetings rarely require more than 2 hours travel time (round trip) - and so are never more than a few hours long. We've also alloted time for them to do the work of the wider church - one of our ministers does this by sitting several presbytery sub-committees, as well as spending time at the United Church outreach centre in this city and the other minister is on BC Conference Executive, as well as a national committee.

Which is a choice I have known some to make.  [and then there are some whose choice sometimes appears to be to not do wider church work if they can help it--but that is true in Presbyteries with not travel required as well]

I have time. But not to spend 4 hours travel for a 2 hour meeting. My rule of thumb is that if the travel is longer than the meeting, I don't go.

I don't believe a congregation can *require* ministry personnel to attend presbytery. They can offer encouragement and incentives, but not *require* it.

It's in the job description that we created.

And I don't think you could hold a minister to that job description (though there are some who would lap it up).

DKS what if all ministry personnel and latity opt out if the travel is longer than the meeting?

 

Frankly that may not be a bad thing.  It may be the only way we a) re-evaluate what work/meetings count as "essential" and b) start to take seriously the need to find new ways to do that work.