What an interesting real life item to discuss.  Thank you - I'm anticiapting some great opinions.

Speaking only for myself - I would not have given permission for my kids to miss school to help with a church event.  I didn't excuse them for sports events either - or for shopping in the city.  

My suggestion to the congregation would be to change the event to a Saturday.  Give the teens lots of opportunities to participate in the organisation and the helping.  Use their talents before they take them elswhere.

Move it to early evening or a weekend.  More people would be able to attend anyway.  I have missed classes for certain things before, but it was also weighted with what was going to be done in class.  Sometimes it was for something academic.

No I don,t think parents should give teens permission to leave school for this church .event.There is a bigger problem here that is affecting all churches - the folk who have been doing this work are physically un able and the younger age group are working or have no interest in church work. This is a dillema that is facing many.

LOL

It reminds me of an incident that happened in the last church I went to.

The folks (mosty women) running the huge flea market (it raised over 10, 000 yearly) decided to hold a meeting to pass on the job to the next generation of women. The meeting was well advertised but it was 10 am on a weekday.

The turnout was low, as most of us were at work!

Re Christmas Bazar-yes move it to the Sat and then some teens-and their parents-would be available to help.

The ladies most likely have it on the day they do as it reaches more of their market...our ladies group always has their luncheon on a weekday to attract business people.  Whatever works.

As for kids getting out of school - ask any parent in Northern Ontario - or any town/city -  that have their kids in hockey and/or any competitive sport as to how much school they miss.  You might be surprised as to how much time they miss due to traveling to tournaments etc 

Many of our kids play hockey out of town – some 3 to 6 hours away, thus they take a Friday afternoon to travel.  It may not be the preferred way, but its reality – especially the costs involved with hockey – parents want their kids to play as much as they can.

Once a year for this type of thing isn't going to affect their learning...here in Ontario they could use it for their community hours that students must accumulate before graduation.  

I can only speak for my own experience. Our congregation holds it's bazaar on a Saturday in early November. The youth group are always eager to help out - and those who can't make it for whatever reason are always a little disappointed. If we were to have it on a Friday, I suspect two things would happen - we'd have no youth volunteers (and fewer volunteers in general) and we'd have far fewer shoppers. 

I'm curious as to why there is a reluctance to move the bazaar day to a weekend?

Read the opening post, and replying before reading through. 

It depends.. 

What courses would they be missing?   How well does each individual do in these courses?   How many classes would the teens miss (this would depend partly on how close the school is to the church and what transportation is available)?   Perhaps some kids could arrange to miss a morning class and lunch hour - other kids would miss lunch hour and an afternoon class.  

How close to exam time?  

Kids often miss classes for sports, family holidays, or part time jobs.

Some schools give credit for volunteer work.  Perhaps the kids could write a report or essay on volunteerism.  Research:  Why does the church hold a bazaar?  How are the funds used?  What are the positives and negatives of holdng a bazaar?  What alternatives might there be? 

Learning does not just take place in the classroom.

Now I'll see what others have to say.

Whether or not to hold a bazaar, luncheon, rummage sale on a weekday, weekend, or evening probably depends upon the location of the church.  Our church is in the centre of town - banks, office buildings, government offices.  Holding events over the lunch hour or Friday afternoon brings in working people.  (We sometimes had study or prayer groups over noon hour for the same reason.) 

I wouldn't be concerned about missing a few hours of class. Community service hours are worthwhile learning events.

As others have said, kids miss for lots of reasons. My daughter was on the swim team in Highschool. The swim meets were half day events which meant you missed the afternoon but the finals were all day events. Even if you swam once , you went to the event.

She was also on the he ski team which was always a day away from school. Concerts, choirs, her dance class toured area elementary schools in what the kids called a "road show" as it was two or three afternoons off a week for two or three weeks.

But I would switch a bazaar or flea market to a Saturday. I think you get more people coming on a Saturday.

We get a lot of teen help for our flea market. We set up from Sundays after church to the sale on Saturday. Generally from nine to nine each day. After school the church is filled with kids sorting, unpacking, stacking.......

They get a real sense of community and giving back and love to know that the money they help raise, generally about $70,000 goes directly to charity.

Our teens are also big food bank helpers.

Lead by example and help them understand that community supports community

I think it would make more sense to have it on Saturday for a variety of reasons, but missing out on a day of classes to help out shouldn't be a problem at all, in my opinion.  Life is full of learning experiences and often the ones that happen outside of class are more valuable than the ones that happen in school.  

Jobam wrote:

"...here in Ontario they can use it for their community hours."

Teens cannot get credit for community service if the event is held during school hours. They can only count community service hours for volunteer work done outside of school hours: evenings and weekends. (and P.D. days).

(Unless the school has a principal who is willing to fudge the paperwork and write down that the church bazaar was on a Sat., and not Friday.)

Many of you point out that teens miss school for hockey, swimming, etc. I agree that happens a lot. But my point is: should churches be facilitating it as well?

Picture the conversation: "Hello, I'm calling on behalf of __________ United Church. Our bazaar is coming up, and we're hoping that you'll give your son/daughter permission to miss school to help us out. Since ithe bazaar is during school time, he/she is not eligible to receive the time as community hours,  but I'm sure he/she would be happy enough to spend a few hours extra homework catching up what they've missed. What do you say? Can you help us out?"

Are members of the Official Board/Session/Church Council actually comfortable making those conversations and putting parents and teens in that position?

My first reaction was "good grief - who even GOES to a bazaar on a Friday??"   Is it a well attended event?  Is it a major fundraiser?  Who gets the proceeds?   Possibly some change is in order.  We've changed or stopped doing some events in our church (the Xmas bazaar being one of them) as the usual organizers have aged beyond wanting to continue, or felt burned out.  Churches should not be fearful of making these changes, and yet many seem to be. 

Personally, I don't think I support removing kids from school to help.  Does the church have an ongoing relationship with the school - i.e. does the church go into the school to enhance school life, offer volunteers, provide funding, support charitable initiatives etc? - if that was the sitation, then possibly there's a better case that could be made from reciprocal activity on the part of the students.

Interesting point GO re volunteer activities needing to occur outside school hours - makes sense. 

I can't imagine holding a bazaar on a friday or being able to get volunteers (teens or otherwise)

my answer would be "move it"

Recruiting teens to help out on a weekend depends very much on how you approach them. Guaranteed low attendance, if you tell the parents to tell the kids what to do.
Try seeing them as valued partners in the community and the activity as give and take (having food going along with any activity always draws our teens).
Also consider the group effect- if they see it as "their thing" they want to be there when their friends are helping, too. Since they might be attending different schools or different grades, some might be able to come some can't- to optimize the amount of helpers and the fun you can get, best to choose a time that works for working people and school kids in the evening or on weekends.

If the church wants youth to be involved I think they should move their event to a time outside of school hours, not ask youth to be abent from school.

It's a problem on general because most people work, except retired folks of course. And they have to work to make ends meet. And they often work varied (not steady 9-5 Monday-Friday, but on call/ rotating shifts, etc.) jobs nowdays. In this employment climate, people take what they can get. So, they have to miss some combination of church services and important events and it's hard to make time commitments in advance. It's a real problem for a lot of people I have met. Not just with church, but just generally difficult to plan things with employment being as precarious as it can be. As for teens missing school, I think, as others have said- opportunities for youth to get involved should be on evenings and weekends and school holidays.

an easy way to get teens to help out is to offer them a table to raise money for the teen program. They could sell baked goods or cards or something specific (so not to detrect from bazar). They could also help set up and take down for this privelege.

So do it on sat! or 'gasp' Sunday afternoon

I agree Tabitha - in past years our group has done that (they were also offered a table this year, but opted not to do it). Another idea is to offer the youth a few options and let them make the final decision. A few years ago our youth decided to help out by working at their own stall and at the toys stall, as well as general labourers for the take-down after the event. Although they chose not to do their own stall this year, they still helped in the other two areas. Another thing our youth enjoy doing prior to the event is cleaning and testing the toys - checking, for example, to see if batteries need replacing.

This thread seems disjointed to me.  What are we discussing?

How to make the church Christmas bazaar a success?

How to get the youth involved in the bazaar?  or in the church?

Whether bazaars are a thing of the past when women didn't work outside the home and had more time to volunteer?

Whether it is right to ask youth to help?

Whether it is right to ask them to miss school to volunteer at a church (or community) affair?

The answers to these questions and others might help us in our decision making. 

My opinion is that it is wrong to ask young people to skip out of their 'job'  (school) to help with an event at church.  

Offering to change the time/date of the event sounds like a good idea in general - but maybe not when the church is located in a downtown 'office area'.

I firmly believe that young people have many skills and ideas to share if given the opportunity.  I recall being in that age group and I hated just being told what to do to be useful.  Present them with the problem for discussion - let them brainstorm possible solutions and be involved in this wider part of congregational life.

Hi Seeler,

You asked 6 questions, and the way I see it is:

1. yes      2. yes       3. yes          4.yes         5.yes          6. yes   

I was looking for feedback about the practise of  asking teens (through their parents) to miss school to work at a weekday church function.

However, all the questions you asked are related to the issue.

And tackling one of the problems will help solve others related to the issue.

Ok - one at a time

Make the bazaar successful - from your opening post the problem isn't with getting people to attend, but rather with getting enough volunteers.  So I take it that the church location lends itself to a midweek event.  Changing it to an evening or weekend might be detrimental.  

If the object is to get youth involved in the church - I don't know if inviting them to work at a bazaar would be the best solution.  My granddaughter is 16.  I'm quite sure she would be reluctant, especially if the main reason for inviting teens is to have more workers.   However, she loves to cook.  Something involving hands-on international cooking might grab her interest.  She might also be interested in any outreach work the church might be involved in - making soup and serving it at the Community Kitchen - working with refugees - preparing and delivering Christmas hampers.   She might be interested in planning, preparing and participating in a worship service.  And she likes social activities with other youth.  Setting up tables, selling handicrafts, pouring tea at a bazaar - NO WAY.  She'd probably rather be in school.

Since there are no longer enough women available (due to age, or work) to run the bazaar, and they can't attract enough new people, perhaps it is time to take a long look at the feasibility of running a bazaar.  If the main purpose of the bazaar is to raise money, is there a better, more efficient way to raise funds - perhaps by encouraging people to be more generous with their offerings.

If the bazaar is considered necessary, and they need help, I see no reason why they shouldn't ask the youth to help out - it may not be their choice thing to do, but people do things they aren't really interested in all the time.  It's like chores at home - somebody has to do them.  If youth are part of the church they should be asked to contribute their time and talent, even if it isn't what they really enjoy doing. 

And if the bazaar is on a weekday, and youth are needed, I see no reason for not asking them to help on a school day (for the reasons I, andothers, mentioned in previous posts.)

Hi GO_3838,

I don't think that the request to parents is out of bounds.

I do hope that none of the parents or the children feel pressured to participate.

If my son or daughters approached me and said, "can we have the day off school to help with so and so"  My first question would be if they had a test scheduled.  If not then they have to make up for work missed.

If one of the three was struggling academically then I might discourage their participation stating school is a priority. 

I do not volunteer my kids time or energy for Church events.  I give them the freedom to participate or not.

As a teen I never took time off school to volunteer at my Church.  I did volunteer a lot of time and effort to the UCW around the time of their bazaar.  Typically in lugging around and setting up tables.  I'd come back afterwards to help with the clean-up.  I was never paid in cash but any left over goodies would be put into a bag and I would lug that home. 

All the "pep rallies" that were mandatory never seemed to have any academic payout nor did I find that they boosted my morale.

And while I enjoyed academics and would not find missing class to wash dishes a bonus activity my sister who did not enjoy academics would have leapt at a chance to miss class and wash dishes.

Grace and peace to you.

John