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Are  any of you losing your Lay centre?

Oh dear, Crazyheart . . . be careful how you say these things.

Ha ha ha. 

hahahaha oops

Cheer up, crazyheart - we've still got the roofer.......

Sorry to hear this.  Sounds like a ' Comprehensive Review' of Mission and Service spending is in order

That is sad, CrazyHeart.  I know how much PCTC was appreciated and how beautiful the land is.

I am sad that I never made it to a Carlyn McDade event there, as I know they were wonderful from friends who did go.

It speaks to the overwhelming challenges felt by many groups and friends as they cease to exist. 

WonderCafe, we have felt it and shared it openly....sometimes not so nicely..

I wonder how all the other places that are hurting will process when they are spread across the miles.

I wonder if there is a way that we can provide them a safe place to grieve...and share, without a bunch of eyes..  possibly in wondercafe2..not here.

PP, Thank God for the roofer.

Inukshuk, sounds like the church is reallystrapped for cash.

CH

This sounds like a beautiful place. They had planned some kind of renovations or add-on (?)  so that makes it more sad. I'm sure it can't be easy for the GC to come to these kind of financial decisions. What a wonderful  gift the donor had given to the UC.

I didn't watch the video because I've used up my Rogers usage 60GB until the 14th. I have to pay $2. per GB until then. I hope its the right place.

Yes crazyheart - the church is strapped for cash to continue funding everything the UC has historically funded. It looks like the UCCan is going to 'restructure' itself at the next general Council - so  maybe now is a good time to look at ways to restructure our $35 million M & S spending.

Oh no! Going to PCTC was something on my bucket list. But I never made it a priority. Another example for not putting off things for too long.

What a loss - caring thoughts are with those who are losing their livelihood in this way.

If this is one of the main training/learning centers for the UC I wonder why it has to close. Do the UC members not pay fees to attend?   I looked up some info online, and they seem to have been offering some wonderfful programs that sound suitable and intereting.

I understand that there is a general lack of cash but how can a national church continue if they don't have training centers like this?

The training centres did not fuly pay for themselves.  Some do better than others, a combination of location, operations model, access to population.

I am sure that there were serious reviews of their dollars over the last few years as they looked at revenue and expense, combined with targets.

thanks for the video stardust.  it is indeed sad to see centres such as this go.  i wonder what will rise in its place? 

Sorry about this. Were you quite involved with it, CH?

Yes, I was back when. I was on the Board for several years. It was the most spiritual place I have ever been. I facilitated and led children;s programming in the summer Music Weeks - Carolyn McDade several times, Klusmeiers, Common Cup, and others. In fact, we celebrated the writing of She Flies On with Common Cup.

Very good memories.

aaah, crazyheart. 

It is good to hear you were part of pctc.  thank-you for your gifts.

I can imagine you leading childrens programs there...thank-you for your time and joy

The Video was taken in fall or winter. In the summer the hills are green with wild garlic, onions, carrots and sage. It smells like turkey being prepared but many people are allergic to the strong smell of  sage.

It is a special holy place

Crazyheart, is there any sense of what will happen to the land?

Crazyheart, what a personal loss for you, You were very involved.

:(

This would be good to go to:  http://www.callinglakes.ca/programs/prog0514c.htm

No I don`t know, Pinga.

Beloved it was a very special place to many people.

I  have started a new thread called Holy Places in Religion. I would appreciate yor thoughts.

The land, the buildings and their contents will be sold, debts will be paid and the remaining funds will be disbursed.

This is from the ABOVE LETTER. pINGA.

Sorry, CrazyHeart.  I was curious if buyer had been identified, if there was a possibility that it would continue in some form as it is.

Places like this experience a continuing decrease in grants.  Programming usually runs at a break even or a small profit.  To make up the short fall donations are needed.  Also they become a hosting site and as expectations for housing increased this area became a less than attractive.  Thus money has to be spent to upgrade.  Again a short fall. From a purelly economic view such centers become more problematic.  It is like what happended in theological education.  The church dropped funding for two of the seminaries. 

Even places like Naramata where they upgraded their buildings have a hard time in the competion with hotels for conventions and the like.

In the 80's it was clear that such places like PCTC were facing problems economically.  Places like five oaks and PCTC had rooms that were not attractive to some markets.   Even those who supported found the accommodations to be less than desired.  When the centers were  flush they did not upgrade and thus the 80 and 90's were stuck with  outmoded facilities.

Yes it sad that such places like PCTC die. The vision that began them was optimistic and times changed.  In the (90's it was clear that only very up to date centere, close to pop, would live into the futrure and several in the USA died.  The programing aspect got smaller or in some cases one place became the  location of several centers and their programs.

Yes, Pan. I agree.

So sad to hear about the closing.  The last event I went to there was on Celtic Sprituality.  My routine when I went to events there was to start each day by getting up early, taking my journal and writing instrument, and climbing to well above PCTC. Once I found a suitable spot, I would sit and write.  Ideally, during that time, the sun would rise and I could watch first the pink light, then the yellow light flow down the hills on the other side of the lake.  On a good day, i would also be able to watch the sunset.  Friends from Hudson Bay, SK bought a house on the lake across from the Centre -- I don't know if they still live there.

I hope the new use for the site will be a blessing for those involved.

Two hills outside the office door. One to the right and one to left. I remember in the evening  some went up to right and some of us went up to the left. Completely spontanious, I was lucky to be with Carolyn McDade. We sang back and forth to each other. It was magic. The Hills Were Alive With the Sound of Music.

What beautiful pictures Jim and Crazyheart.

aaah, crazyheart, how i wish that I had been there..wonderful

Jim, great thoughts re the people who acquire the land.  ...may the blessings continue

Crazyheart:  I have attended circles with Carolyn McDade and been the host at Carolyn McDade events at Five Oaks...and our chorus did a concert with Carolyn McDade.

I am a huge fan...so I am serious, how I wish that I had been there with you.

I have to say  'that the most spritual person, I know  , is Carolyn McDade

Her community is wonderful. She is so gracious. The circle is so important.

Good memories

Is this a memory, Pinga. 'Hip Swinging a Safe Song'  .Its been so long. Have I got it wrong?

Hip swinging a safe road

I once did a solo for a bit of rising green

My blood doth rise in the roots of you oak

Her sap doth run in my vein

I likely have talked about this before, but the UU church in Hamilton, Ontario (First Unitarian) used to have banners above the chancel (I have not been there in years so not sure what it looks like now). On stage right was "Roots hold me close" with (IIRC) a stylized tree and and on stage left was "Wings set me free" with an ascending dove or some similar icon of flight. Drawn, of course, from McDade's "Spirit of Life".

Mendalla