Last spring a member of our congregation, who is an amateur local historian, offered to give a series of talks on our stained-glass windows as part of the worship service. I looked forward to it.

I was disappointed. She choose a window with an interesting picture of two Biblical figures in the main panels. Each was holding something - a scroll? a net? The background of pieces of various tones and hues seemed to depict many different symbols - some I recognized and others that I wondered about. I was hoping to hear something about this window. Where it came from, why this particular design was chosen, and most importantly what it was meant to convey to those who gazed upon it. Instead, after identifying the two people as Peter and Paul, she read the inscription at the bottom and told us about the family who had dedicated this window - when they had first settled in the area, where their first home was, and the beautiful home they eventually built still standing on the corner of -- and -- streets, their carriage business and other business interests, and the families their children married into. She ended with a promise to return, whenever the congregation wanted, to tell us about some of the other windows.

I know the plaque at the bottom read "Dedicated by the ------ family to the glory of God and in memory their father and mother, ----- and -----. I would have liked to hear more about how this window reflects the glory of God, and less about a prominent old family from this city.

First, stained glass artists are fewer today. It is not a lost art, but a very specialized one. Yes, it is labour intensive and expensive.

Second, why were you expecting a biblical story, and not the local history, from a local historian? Those histories tell of the people who had a hand in commissioning and creating the beautiful and enduring works of art and architecture around you. (Plus, they're actual, you know, histories.) Any minister can give you a dime-a-dozen bible story on any given Sunday. It's not often we get to hear from those who know much about our area settlers and who they were and what they were like. I find that stuff fascinating, and this atheist even loves to learn about churches. I love the buildings, even if I dismiss the theology they were constructed, in part, to teach.

Well, seeler, tell her! How can a speaker know that she did not meet the expectations of the audience unless she is told?

Your speaker, a local historian, may have been more knowledgeable and comfortable talking about local history than spiritual topics. Many people have a hard time talking about spirituality because they never thought deeply about it.

What is the purpose of stained glass windows?

Producing stained glass, which meant mixing the dye into the quartz sand before casting the glass, and then making a mosaic out of the dyed glass, was a medieval art form. In stained glass church windows, the purpose was to illustrate biblical stories and, at the same time, illuminate the inside of the church with an unearthly brilliance, conveying the splendour of God.

Unlike Arminius I think it would be better to talk about your disappointment with your minister seeler.  Ask what spiritual knowledge or experience this 'sermon' had for him/her.  Is it something that will be repeated about other aspects of the building?  Could it be repeated using a spiritual dimension at a later date? 

I do think Arminius made a valid observation though - many people, including lifelong church members think little, if at all, about spirituality.

I remember a stained glass window in a childhood church that had lots of things on it in addition to the Biblical story.  I expect these were important symbolically - but I never found anyone who could tell me what they meant.  I have seen three different windows that included a tiny spider - would that be to tell us that everything is woven together?

My church has gorgeous windows - and for a long time I wondered about them - the stories depicted, the symbols used, and the histories of those to whom they were dedicated and those who had generously donated them.  I gaze upon them often during the service.  My husband builds stained & leaded glass as a hobby, so I had some idea of the complexity of the task - but he doesn't do any that are so beautiful in their additional painting.  I've also marvelled at the windows in cathedrals I have visited elsewhere in the world. 

So, I decided to do a project.  I studied the history of glass in the church, & looked up the symbolism, discovered lots of information that was new to me & quite fascinating.  I reserached the names of those involved.  I had my husband photograph all the panels (another of his hobbies!).  And I put together all the information into a binder - which you're reminding me has yet to make its way into our church archives!   I'd also like to eventually develop line drawings of the windows & do a booklet for our church kids - colouring & info & history, which I think would be great.  I'd love to see a sermon or series preached on our windows - there is much that could be done. 

I also made a new acquaintance - through this wonderful wondercafe - with someone in my area who previously working the business, and had an extraordinary depth of knowledge regarding the history & fabrication of church windows.  She came & spoke on a Saturday morning - morning so that light would be streaming through the glass.  The event was well attended & very informative.  

I hope you will pursue it further Seeler - it's an interesting area of study - biblically, from church & the arts historical perspective, from the perspective of personal & community history. 

Seeler - you mentioned the person giving the talk is "an amateur local historian" - so the talk she gave is what I would have expected - she's not an expert in stained glass fabrication, nor in biblical symbolism I expect.  Might need a combo of speakers to get the full meaning of what's on view. 

I love stained glass windows and when I travel I always go into old churches and cathedrals to see them.

Our church has beautiful ones and they are documented on our web site. Pictures, info, descriptions, history..... We have a member who did it for us.

We recently had a newbie donated. A member donated it in memory of his parents and it specifically recognizes women.

I expect the speaker was giving her talk on the aspects of the windows she knew rather than the meaning of the symbols. Perhaps the minster could follow up with a sermon on the symbols

Don't yell but these are my feelings about stained glass windows in churches.The windows from our forebears should be kept up and restored as they are a legacy given to us.

However in this new age the money that is used for stain glass in churches could be better used for outreach. Just my idea.

I can understand your viewpoint crazyheart,  I heard quite a bit of community talk a few years ago when a local mainline church bought a new stained glass window for a very significant amount of cash. 

Everyone agreed it was beautiful, many observed that unless you attended that church you couldn't see it (church is locked most of the time).  The church has a had a declining congregation for thirty years and now consists of seniors.  It is far from being 'welcoming' and doesn't have any outreach locally that the speakers were aware of. 

Generally the speakers thought it was a waste of money.

New churches do not have the same feel as old ones. They are more efficient, multi-use, more modern....but they are missing a certain element that only older churches have.

Put it this way: I've seen some lovely old masonry church conversions. Nobody will ever consider saving some of these stucco and structural steel churches and converting them into homes.

As the centre of a church community, I think commissioning a stained glass window or other work of art is a noble use of funds. I get the argument that outreach is better, but we can't lose sight of the need to create legacies and stories that future generations will tell about our generation.

Besides, it'll be difficult to convince kids in 100 years that new churches were still being built in 2013.

A lot depends on the other architectural elements, though. Stained glass is nice if it fits in with the rest of the design.

The United Church I attended for a few weeks this summer (and may go back to at times) is modern (built in the eighties) and has a lovely sanctuary (the exterior is a bit blah though). No stained glass and it just wouldn't fit in with the rest of the design.

My family church in Kitchener (built in the 50s) had a large window with stained panels but no pictures or other fancy bits. Architecturally, it was close enough in design to older churches that I think it would have benefited from a full slate of stained glass windows. Then again, we had a few windows broken by vandals over the years so maybe that wouldn't have been such a hot thing .

Mendalla

I like stained glass windows. We had some beautiful ones in the big United Church I attended in my youth.

My Baptist church building is 80 years old and has no stained glass windows, so it's not just a question of age. There are some Baptist churches with stained glass windows, but not mine.

As I understand it, and I could be mistaken, stained glass windows were originally introduced in Catholic churches as a way of illustrating Bible stories for the common people who were not allowed to read the Scriptures.

Actually jae - I think historically is was not that people were "not allowed" to read scripture - it was more that most commoners were unable to read - ie illiterate - and that the printing press hadn't been invented - so 'books' were a rare commodity.  Yes - windows were used for teaching. 

And they're not just Christian - many synagogues also have stained glass windows. 

Maybe the artist meant to convey the message that the lead strips keeping the glass pieces in place are the "Web of Life," the framework that unites everything with everything else?

What if he just liked spiders and that was his trademark?

On a connected topic, did anyone else here make stained glass cookies in Sunday School? mmm... stained glass cookies.

Jae, if anyone at your united church fed you stained glass cookies, they were trying to get rid of you before you wanted to leave.

Funny chansen, but here... http://www.simplyrecipes.com/recipes/stained_glass_cookies/

They're so yummy!

Yes, chansen, could be.

But, as you know, I tend to see the divine in the mundane.

Could be right chansen - there was a designer who did just that - "Geoffrey Webb’s mark was a spider’s web that he would incorporate into the design of his windows." 

from:  http://daresburycofe.org.uk/tourism/alice-window/

This is an interesting article about a window dedicated to Lewis Carroll 

I love sitting in a sanctuary filled with beautifully done stained glass - I find it can really enhance my experience.

Aesthetically speaking, one of my favourite churches in this presbytery is this one, which you can see has many beautiful stained glass windows surrounding its' sanctuary.

Here is my favourite window in their church - it tells the story of their congregation:

Beautiful, Somegal. This shows that stained glass can be successfully wed with modern architecture - and uses modern, but meaningful, symbols and pictures.
I love the one showing the history of the church. I also see one with the UCC crest. And is that the flame representing Pentecost in the narrow window at the front?

Thank you all for your replies. You have given me much to think about ---
and you have shown me that I was much too critical of the woman who told the story of the family that dedicated the window.
I wonder if it would be appropriate to ask her to tell the stories of the other windows - perhaps once a month, and before or after the worship service. And to ask her to put together a pamphlet that could be given to visitors to our services, and to the tourists who come to our church during the summer. (We have a tour guide and are promoted by the city Tourism.)

That's a truly beautiful worship space :)

Thank you Dcn Jae. 

Yes, somegal, beautiful!

You're welcome seeler. There are many beautiful worship spaces both inside and outside of my own faith tradition.

Seeler - this is the one at the front that I think you are looking at:

Aw - the good shepherd.  Of course.  Veautiful, Colourful, perfect for the space it occupies.  But from the distance I couldn't make it out.  I caught the red in the shape of his coat and it looked to me like a flame.  

As my Auntie Margaret's 100th birthday approached, her family decided to dedicate a stained glass window to her long life and work with the church . She arrived in Canada when she was about 4years old, and has attended St. George's Cathedral, Kingston, for her entire life...100 years next January! It depicts St. Margaret, and I forget the actual details of it now but it is very beautiful, and very traditional.

It was also very expensive!!

St. George's (in Kingston) has a number of amazing and beautiful windows from its long history of donations from the well-heeled in Kingston and benefactors at Fort Frontenac and RMC. To help with the inevitable questions, and because it's an historic site and runs tours, etc. there is a binder in which all the windows are pictured, with a description of the window, the donors (like the historian's recount mentioned above) and the elements in the window that illustrate the various key components of the story, verse or psalm. It's really informative!

Stained glass is so beautiful, but due to cost it should be Always be donated. And when churches close, there should be some way of securing these beautiful tributes for the communities they are located in...but the costs are considerable, without question.

General Council Office has four beautiful windows on the main floor; they're hard to see though. I hope the new location will highlight them (when ever/if ever that actually happens).

For another look at contemporary stained glass, I've included some pictures of an installation in our sanctuary.  When our congregation (with a more utilitarian sanctuary built ~1960) amalgamated with an older one (whose structure is now being converted into condos), they brought with them a contemporary triptych of stained glass windows, commissioned in the 70's, I believe. It was difficult to find somewhere to put them without punching a hole in the church wall, which would have been an expensive proposition. The first picture below is what the windows looked like in the older stone church.In the end, the windows were mounted inside the church sanctuary (at the front of an unused balcony) and lit from behind. The picture below doesn't do justice to the interesting effect achieved - the panels seem to float in the air (they are mounted using wires from  the ceiling). Other than not having to worry about drafts produced by installing on an outside wall, another advantage is that they can be easily seen during evening services (because of their back illumination). In case you're wondering, the image represents Christ holding open his hands (seen at far right and left) to the world.

But to address the topic of this thread, and as important as I think beauty is in our lives (and in our worship), it would be incredibly expensive to commission such a work now, even though it's only 40 years later. Churches simply don't have the money for that anymore. When bequests come in, they are almost always used to fix a furnace or replace the roof (what use is a beautiful window if the building is unusable?)  Everyone has their own priorities. If it were my choice, and I had the $$, it probably wouldn't go to a window, but to a music endowment (music being my "thing") to support the performance of new music in the church.

Yes the windows like other litugical items were used, and still are, for teaching purposes.  I used the childrens time to teach about the windows in the churches I have served.  Did it more than once and for several weeks.  All liked this.

How a  worship space is created is important. Aesthetics are basic for any space, be a room, a home, a church.  Beauty is crucial to well being. It grounds us for action.  That is why money spent on aesthetics is basic for social justice.

Even in the most modern or post modern deisign colour and light is crucial - so the windows help and while the big stained might not work other ways are found.  I remember being in Saint Andews Wesly and being moved by the light stream through the windows there and being transcended.  Beauty does that and it is important for worship, just as music and other things we do in liturgy.  It is to open space so God can slide in.

Just this past week I was taking a course on Spiritual Formation, at St. Francis Centre for Religious Studies in Caledon Ontario.

In their chapel they have some really beautiful stained-glass windows depicting scenes from the Bible and church history. However, one thing that I liked was that at the top of two of the walls instead of having stained glass, they had clear glass, so that you could look out and see the surrounding forest. This was to mark that St. Francis was a lover of nature. The effect is really quite wonderful to see.

There are also sculptures, paintings, and icons throughout the facility.

That's my neck-of-the-woods, Jae. Maybe 30km further away from the city than I am, but similar geography. Beautiful views up there in the headwaters area.

It sounds like a lovely church in a lovely neck-of-the-woods.

Yes, it was sure beautiful chansen. What a neat place to live. They told us that it's especially wonderful there in the autumn when the leaves change colour.

Lovely indeed seeler. St. Francis Centre is actually a retreat center, run by the Franciscans. It's a great place to get away from the busyness of the city and spend some quality quiet time praying, reading Scripture, meditating, going for quiet walks, and worshipping.

A family commissioned a three panel stained glass window representing the story of Noah's ark -- they were included the Church Calendar a couple of years ago.

Staine glass windows are an old multi-mdia contribution to worship and other gatherings in the church, and still much appreciated.

A modern attempt at stained glass windows was reported on the news a while back.  This isn't the link I was looking for - but it will give you the basic idea.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/sci-tech/saskatoon-church-gives-solar-energy-panels-stained-glass-disguise-1.1406338

I love that kay!  I've often wondered why solar panels couldn't be made more attractive - they are a bit of a blight. 

Having just completed a solar installation, one of the reasons for not using colourful panels is that, at present, the best performers (ergo, the highest return on investment) are black and dark blue. We did put a cross shape in our installation, but the effect is a bit subtle.

I like contemporary/ abstract stained glass too. It gives a warmth to the space. Older stained glass in cathedral style buildings is more regal. Both are beautiful in their own way. I love it all. I love how the light shines through it.

I can't copy the photo but I found one of a more contemporary building with stained glass. I think it's a home but it would be a beautiful design in a church, too. Sorry, I can't upload the photo.

http://www.lodgianlocator.com/shine-new-light-on-modern-homes-with-stain...

Hi seeler,

Pretty much the same purpose as a picture book.  Those unable to read words can get a whole story from a window.

We have fewer stainglass windows but use more visuals with projectors so no real need for stained glass anymore.  Newer technology made it redundant.  Prior to stained glass it was tapestries and mosaics and such.

The Church has long been a patron of the arts specifically for this purpose, Sistine Chapel anyone?  So all this expensive stuff was the best way to communicate to people who couldn't read the scriptures for themselves. 

The reason why we are seeing more geometric patterns than artistic interpretations is, as Chansen points out a matter of cost.  Stained glass is an expensive form of art.  Cutting coloured glass to a pattern is still pain-staking though far less labour intensive.

Stained glass windows are works of art.  Most churches can no longer afford to invest in them nor maintain them.  Apparently bland shoe boxes are all that is needed anymore.

Grace and peace to you.

John

I've just been looking up photos of stained glass windows. Here's a a pretty one in a church somewhere in England (?), looks like a sky-light but maybe not...of a beehive. Why not?

http://modernglass.com/gallery/ecclesiastical-and-schools-galley/

I like the door panels with feet on them, too. Nice.

(isn't the internet wonderful Kimmio - we can just go wandering around discover all sorts of wonderful things!)

Sure is. It's a little addictive and I can use it almost anywhere. Point me to pretty shiny things and I can get caught up looking at them for too long! Actually, I was trying to find an article I read awhile ago with pictures of stained glass in beautiful modern sanctuary spaces in synagogues. I think a lot of religious buildings use stained glass. I couldn't find it but came across lots of others.

Here's a video lecture about sacred spaces and art, including stained glass windows.

http://blip.tv/greshamcollege/a-sense-of-the-sacred-professor-frances-sp...

The church I attend has beautiful stained glass- old, cathedral style. But I have been in modern spaces that have beautiful windows too. I like the large glass hangings that can be hung in front of windows on a doweling.

Our church has a set of stained glass 'windows' (more like window boxes) lit entirely by fluorescent light behind. The sanctuary is almost entirely 'interior' of the total building, so it gives a windowed effect to a window-less space. They're very beautiful - the work of a local artist. Each was purchased by/and or dedicated to a family or group or occasion, and they have themes - education, children, etc.