This is hilarious. Don't use Twitter, don't use Facxebook and we don't have web video capability. Welcome to the new exclusion.

BTW, our Senior Sunday School teacher (yes, we have an active teen (ages 14-17) Sunday School) did a lesson plan using text messaging. Surprise! Not oone of the kids used text messaging. When asked, either they had consciously chosen not to use text messaging or their family couldn't afford it.

Wow, DKS. While I find that texting isn't quite as all-pervasive among the kids as we are sometimes led to believe, having no one in a group of that age using it is a bit surprising given how many of the teens that I know personally use it regularly. Little M's best friend's teen sister (16, I think) packs a Blackberry Bold like mine just because she likes having the full QWERTY keyboard for texting and I know that my boss uses it himself because it's often the easiest way to reach his daughter of the same age. Something to do with your congregation's demographics, perhaps?

That said, I agree with you. Too much focus in this announcement on using social media as part of the service. I like the theme being proposed, just not the over-emphasis on social media. It sounds trendy rather than topical, though I'm sure the aim is the latter.

Mendalla

EDGE is a network for a specific type of ministry development and people involved in that. It is like saying Facebook is too focused... Facebook is a social media network and EDGE is a specific social media network.  It targets those who want to use Twitter, Google, Internet and Facebook in the church....

It is not for everyone, but saying it is too -what it is meant to be - is a clue only that it is not for you.

Not only is it not for me, it's not me nor is it the United Church. Have a look at pp. 87-90 of the General Council Executive workbook (http://gc40.united-church.ca/en/gce/meetings2011) , The United Church of Canada 2011 Identity Survey. It ain't the existing church nor affiliates (those who might have interest in the United Church) either. Read the reasons why. And then folks just might understand. Maybe.

Reminds me of the kind of stuff we used to do with alternative hymn books in the 60's and 70's. And we did similar things in the 1980's and 90's with computer to computer communication. Not new. All that has changed is the size of the tools (IBM XT vs hand-held Blackberry). We have been down this road before, and some of us have come back.

To me it looks like someone or some group within UCCan is at least trying something new.  So maybe this new wine won't fit comfortably in the old wineskins - who will know unless it is tried?

DKS makes some interesting observations about texting - but to me it sounds like the Sunday School teacher didn't do some necessary research with the kids first.  My guess is that this has always happened and probably always will.  When I was a teen I missed some church events because to get to them I needed a vehicle or money for public transport.  I had neither.

Mendall - how would you suggest getting this 'off the ground' without using social media?

DKS, are we looking at the same pages?

I see a research portrait of the UCC.

Are you saying that because it does not seem to fit the research, the demographics and the snapshot? or falls outside it?

If so, I am at best one whom people would be  50% comfortable (lesbian) or  27% comfortable (transgender) - does that mean that in your opinion, I am not for you, not for GC, not for the United Church or its affiliates?

Just saying...

DKS, the size of the tools is certainly not the only thing which has changed. There are also a few more people using the Web now then there were in 1980s and 1990s. Just a few.

You're being ridiculous.

I suspect this will fall flat, or at least fall far short of hoped results.  Partly becasue they have not provided any reason for people to participate.  PArtly because it is wholly foreign to the worshiop culture of most congregations.  And paertly because there are many places taht simply cannot do it technically (or have chosen not to be able to).

Wrong. The tools are the same. It's the scale which has changed. And we predicted the results back then, too. It didn't work and fell flat. It was a novelty, nothing more.

Would it surprise you that the first real time, virtual worship service happened in 1987?

That's the report. It's an important identity snapshot of who we are as a church. And this stuff (EDGE, from which this idea has been birthed) appears to be completely disconnected.

Read the last section about the affiliates. Nobody is interested in what we are talking about.

Yup. Now does that mean the glass is half empty? Or half full? It flies in the face of much of our professed inclusiveness.

My point is that it's old wine.

Does anyone else see the irony in this thread?

I think it's hilarious to read complaints about using social media in church on a social media website run by a church!

Don't get me wrong, I understand that many, if not most, united churches would not have the technology to make this happen during a service - but there is no reason that the person preparing the service couldn't do this prior to the sermon and then simply share it with the congregation during sermon time.

That said, I think they should have advertised this a long time ago as most ministers that I have known have their services outlined months in advance. For us, that will be the date of our anniversary service - an annual time to look back and look ahead at the work our congregation and its' members do.

Yuppers!  Nature has a wicked sense of humour.  G_d is an iron.

Ahh, the confession booth of THX1138

DKS is gonna have fun when they're out in Heaven and they see their grandchildren riding one of the first Generation Ships...and then the ship's computer becomes self-aware, and when it arrives, it tells all of the crew that they must decide how to Worship it :3 (brilliant Frank Herbert series, btw)

DKS, my point is that not only geeks use the web now. All kinds of people are on it, a huge porportion of Canadian society. So it's obvious that there would be more people who might be interested in initiatives like this online than there were in 1987. It's not a question of new wine or new wineskins so much as the whole world has changed. 

I wonder how many WC contributors and lurkers have now heard about EDGE?  Possibly some find it interesting.    I checked out the webpage and I suspect others have too.   I shared the info with some others and  maybe they passed it along  to some of the people they know.  This could continue to roll along growing like a snowball or melt away to nothing.

Isn't it the people who don't go to church that have what the future UCCan will need to survive?  I don't understand the logic of criticising an honest effort to contact them.

I would say that we cannot judge a book by its cover, or a people by a snapshot of them.

Asked, "would you accept a LGBTQ" minister?" is asking a "suppose" question or a question once and not looking at movement. Either by people or by the Spirit. One can give a preference at that moment or a "what I have known in the past" to the question. I know that many of my area congregations may have said indeed said "no". No to LBGT clergy and definitely no to TG clergy. They may not have given it thought and answered. They may have never had exposure. They may have had one and had a bad experience. They may have thought they knew who they were and where they were going. In the 15 local (rural and senior heavy) UCC congregations I have stepped behind a pulpit, I have never had an occasion where I was not welcomed back. There is no hiding of who I am. So, it is not that they did not know.

The glass is more than half full. I could be a cynic by data, people and the Holy Spirit tell me not to be.

Data is just data. It is easily contolled by what questions are asked and how they are asked.

In the tech issue, though seniors use it the least, they are the fastest growing group. They often do not even know the possibilities. Ask them about technology in church and they might say "bah humbug". Yet, many who check email to keep in touch love the bulletin electronically once they find out it is possible. They never thought about it. They thought it was typed and photocopied and they needed to get mailed a photocopy and that is hardly worth the postage. What is the response when they find out you click "send" and it is in email just like the letter from the kids? Do they even know they could getchurch news in Florida without long distance charges? Those who are increasingly finding the hymnal hard to read or hold, do they know the words can be projected? Those who find that the microphone is still not helping them hear the minister, do they know there is something out there instead of not coming anymore or sitting there not hearing?

If a church is interested, it is there, things like EDGE and even myself... the things those things that do not exactly fit the snapshop. If a church is not interested, they are not. They however only speak for themselves, after all, we are governed that way.

I am glad that most the people I meet in rural, senior heavy congregations allow God and the Holy Spirit to move them from where they once were or where they thought they are. They are not snapshots of people or data and I am not.  I thank God for that.

Just because everything does not work out in life from our point of view , is not a  reason to give up hope.

Just because other projects of the GCO have not work out from our point of view, is not a reason to give up hope that some will work.

Just because people have rejected change, rejected Jesus, rejected love, rejected new technology is not a reason to give up hope that they always will.

Just because certain groups have rejected church in the past, does not mean we need to give up hope that church will change so that they will  come.

Don't give up on hope.

People told me I would not live to see 30. I was hopeless, I was dieing of an illness that had no treatments, that millions were dieing from every year, that millions still die from evryyear. Yet I did not give up hope. I am still a live twenty  years later after giving up hope. So if you have given up hope, refrain from telling others to give up hope.  

I was at a formal gathering in the spring of this year - a fundraising event for a local university where the live auction portion of the evening attempted to use texting as a method of bidding.  Instead of an auctioneer people could submit thier bids on items by text.  The value of the bids was on the screen.  One of the problem from my perspective was that wearing my tux I'd chosen not to carry my cell phone to the evening.  More importantly, there was no incentive to pay attention to what was happening on the screen, people chose to visit with each other rather than participate in the auction.  The amounts raised were substantially lower than what had been raised in previous years at the same event.  The organizers were going back to the drawing board for next years event.

On Sunday our congregation chartered a bus and had 60 people attend a covenanting service in Red Deer between a person who was a student intern here a little over a year ago, and the congregation where he is now serving as an ordained minister.  People were interested and motivated in going because of the personal relationships they each had with this person.  It would be a struggle to get 5 of those people to attend a covenanting service with a "new" minister in the congregation 10 blocks away from us in the city.  The deciding factor is the personal relationship they have with the people involved. 

I've watched Edge developing; I may or may not participate in webinars as they grow.  The ones I'm most likely going to participate in are ones directly related to the ministry I am engaged in; and probably ones directly related to United Church of Canada elements of that ministry since where the information is more generic there are better sources around...

Professionally, I'm not anticipating using any of the materials available on November 20th; even though we have the technology available to use there is little chance we will - no one in the congregation has reason to see this as important from what I can tell.  I don't see it as important - it's one more voice in a cacaphony of voices calling for our attention.  What they are doing isn't particularly unique; I can access somewhat similiar materials and conversations on a whole bunch of places on the internet - from iTunesU, YouTube, and several universities where the knowledge base is more solid and the information better presented.

Webinars, if they are called articles, resources or workshops.... seem to work well for some folks. Why not online seminars? Why not live chat?

I also perused the EDGE website and cannot say it offered me much in what I might be looking for. That said, I do not feel the need to insult it or those interested in it or say it has no purpose.

Hi Folks, Just a couple of responses to some comments. The EDGE website offers other ways of engaging the "Spirit Sightings" than facebook, Twitter or live web-video, such as posting a "Spirit Sighting" on our website in advance of Nov. 20th or simply to invite some people in the congregation to share their own experience of God having drawn near in the service that day. There are some other worship suggestions on the website as well. (link below)

Also, about EDGE as a ministry initiative. We definitely want to explore the use of webtechnology to do some things (like share our experineces of God). But it is not limited to that. The key area we are putting effort into is developing consultants, coaches, tools and other resources to connect with and help congregations with renewal initiatives. We want to be onsite where we can, and leverage those connections with technology where possible.

The EDGE is the threshold of new ways we are being called to be church, technology simply offers some new tools.

Thanks for the conversation!

http://www.edge-ucc.ca

urbanurchin,

what is a 'renewal initiative'?

what does 'leverage those connections with technology' mean?

I just took a quick and superficial look at the Edge website. I live in a fairly remote area and find it difficult to go to certain workshops. I have to travel to Edmonton or Vancouver or even Calgary for the closest options. Of course there are other places in the country. It is expensive to go to a two day workshop when you have to travel. The idea of being able to access webinars and the like it very attractive. In fact, my husband is currently at a church based event that involves remotely piping the speaker in to the church.

I do believe we need to find ways to incorporate new technologies. We can do it as individuals and as congregations. As I was reading through this thread, I thought og how tablet computers might become more integral in our worship. You could load a hymn book onto one, and have a lighter load to carry. You can put the bulletin in there...or the sermon. I've already used my BlackBerry or netbook instead of paper in worship leadership....

We do need to stretch our comfort zone and do things differently. If our grandparents had not done this, we'd be still worshipping in buildings with no electricity, etc......

Amen, Northwind.

There's a variety of simple ways to join EDGE's Spirit Sightings on Nov. 20. Take a look!

Nov. 20th “Spirit Sightings” – ways for you or your congregation to participate

Simplest and fun!

• Incorporate the liturgy of witness and commitment into your worship
• Post on our facebook page where you have experienced God drawing near.
• Participate during the day from the comfort of your own home – join the broadcast during the day at any point from 9:00am to 3:00pm Eastern to share in spirit sightings from Newfoundland to Vancouver Island – go to http://edgeucc.adobeconnect.com/spiritsightings there will be a chat pod for you to add your own experiences.

Simple and fun!

• Do you or someone in your congregation use twitter? During the service have someone with a smart phone monitor the tweets from across the country and share them with the congregation prior, during or after the service
• Send your own spirit sighting experience ahead of time or after November 20 to be posted on our website – it would be great if you can include a photo!

Yet more Fun!

• Participate live via web video. You will need high speed internet, a laptop, webcam projector and speakers. Connect to our web video room and broadcast your “spirit sighting” live across the country: 

http://edgeucc.adobeconnect.com/spiritsightings

Contact us to arrange a rehearsal time by emailing EDGE

See the “Spirit Sightings” PDF email here.

Thanks, Aaron-

See, I think many of those first things are awesome. Some churches generally do not tend to incorporate witness. The congregatiion is sometimes only "involved" in hymns, prayers...

I think inviting people to post to facebook where they experienced God is wonderful. Yet, I know that whole "public" thing is not for some folks. They could think about it though, hearinf about it, and maybe choose not to post to Facebook but be moved to think about it, journal it with pen and paper. I also know that for some younger folks it might be fodder for bullies.

What I like best is the ability to join the broadcast.

I cannot tell you how many older folks with UCC ethos are watching Joel Osteen or watching A Mass for Shut-ins because we offer them nothing when they cannot get to church. There is no UCC televised stuff. If I look for podcasts, I can find oodles by clergy who are not UCC, much less for UCC. UCC seem to prefer to upload the bulletin or use a Word document for the sermon or it is an MP3 without visuals. The person then is left reading the sermon. There is something about a preacher of the Word's voice, the tone, the rise and fall of voice, the movement...

Thanks, I have a couple folks in mind to let know.

Hi Folks,

‎#SpiritSightings with EDGE Network for Ministry Development is happening this Sunday, 9:00 - 3:00 Eastern! Join a virtual flash mob in worship!  The web broadcast will drop in on more than 20 United Church congregations, ministries, and leaders across the country! Check out the exciting web broadcast schedule below!

http://www.edge-ucc.ca/launch/schedule/

View the web broadcast: http://edgeucc.adobeconnect.com/spiritsightings

Join EDGE on Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/edge.ucc

Share your thoughts on Twitter: @EDGE_UCC #SpiritSightings

EDGE Network for Ministry Development is broadcasting live all day, Sunday, Nov. 20, 9:00 - 3:00 ET. You can log in here:

https://edgeucc.adobeconnect.com/_a1012244660/spiritsightings?launcher=false

#UCCan General Secretary Nora Sanders now welcoming people to @EDGE_UCC #SpiritSightings!

RT @unitedchurchcda: Karla Adolphe, from #RDVS2011 is now singing on #SpiritSightings! What an awesome way to start the morning. http://ow.ly/7zpfR #UCCan 

Inspiring message on #SpiritSightings about yoga in a Christian ministry setting. #UCCan 

Now dropping in on the worship at Centenary Square United in St. John, New Brunswick. 

Dropping in on worship with Mount Pearl United – St. John’s, Newfoundland. Beautiful children's choir in a packed church. Congregation holding signs with messages from Matthew 25. 

Hearing from St. John’s United's "open source" ministry (Halifax, NS). Pioneers in children's ministry. #SpiritSightings #UCCan 

#SpiritSightings is a live webcast from more than 20 #UCCan ministries across Canada. Join anytime 9-3 ET: ow.ly/7zrl9

Now two hours into #SpiritSightings! In addition to those above, we also had great visits with:

St. John’s United – Halifax, Nova Scotia

St. Andrew’s United – Halifax, Nova Scotia

Norval United – Norval, Ontario

Bathurst United – Toronto, Ontario

Join the #SpiritSightings webcast anytime 9-3 ET. 

ow.ly/7zthH

Now two hours into #SpiritSightings! In addition to those above, we also had great visits with:

St. John’s United – Halifax, Nova Scotia

St. Andrew’s United – Halifax, Nova Scotia

Norval United – Norval, Ontario

Bathurst United – Toronto, Ontario

Join the #SpiritSightings webcast anytime 9-3 ET. 

ow.ly/7zthH

Now two hours into #SpiritSightings! In addition to those above, we also had great visits with:

St. John’s United – Halifax, Nova Scotia

St. Andrew’s United – Halifax, Nova Scotia

Norval United – Norval, Ontario

Bathurst United – Toronto, Ontario

Join the #SpiritSightings webcast anytime 9-3 ET. 

ow.ly/7zthH

#SpiritSightings asks the question, "Where do you see God drawing near?"

RT @edge_ucc: Amazing to watch youth confirmation live at Islington United Church in Toronto!  A #SpiritSighting indeed!  http://ow.ly/7zvkW 

#SpiritSightings is now speaking with 'evolutionary Christian mystic" Bruce Sanguin.

Dropping in on Sparling United in Winnipeg, Manitoba. Wonderful to see some many #UCCan folks gathered for worship across the country! #SpiritSightings

Wonderful to see so many join us for worship across the country this morning!  We've been in NL, NB, NS, ON, MB, AB, BC - coming soon QC, and SK! 

Sharing #SpiritSightings with Darla Sloan: "Ministries in French is about crossing boundaries." Amen! #UCCan 

 #UCCan's Michael Blair now joining #SpiritSightings: Congregations across country are embracing difference including intercultural vision.  Intercultural churches are about mutual respect, growing together, and broad inclusion of groups that have felt excluded.

#UCCan's Bill Kennedy offers his #SpiritSightings from #Occupy Toronto. Bill visited sacred fire at #Occupy Toronto . A quiet sense of community around fire at this tense time. Irony that Toronto's Santa Claus parade ends at #Occupy Toronto camp. Watch for Bill's photos from #Occupy Toronto to be posted at #SpiritSightings on Twitter soon.

Now visiting with Central UC in Calgary has a specialized ministry with broken people, including their addiction recovery service. Discovering practical and meaningful ways to minister to broken people in their brokenness. #SpiritSightings #UCCan 

#SpiritSightings - Davenport Perth Community Centre: Where does God draw near? God is in our neighbourhoods! Coming up next: a 60' whale at Cadboro Bay UC, and UC Moderator Mardi Tindal #UCCan

Just saw a photo of a Sunday School class meeting Jonah inside a whale! #SpiritSightings from Cadboro Bay United BC. #UCCan 

Moderator Mardi Tindal: #SpiritSightings has been a witness to the great diversity of our particular body of Christianity in #UCCan.

I did not get a chance to participate in this today, so am wondering if it is possible to watch any of it now?

Hi folks.   I participated a bit this morning.  I think it has great possibilities.   I met with folks a few weeks ago who were looking for a different form of worship, and we discussed piping in a service.  They would like to be able to sing and read along; however, are also comfortable in breaking into dialogue.  Basically, a small group of faithful small C christians, who are looking for a place to worship.  Wouldn't it be wonderful if they could network with others, in a shared community.

Also, for folks who cannot afford a fulltime minster of word and pastoral care and youth ministry...and so on.....wouldn't it be wonderful to have a minister who brings the word to live in their community but network with others for the service....

(though, there are technical hiccups...overall it was wonderful, including Karla's gift of music)