So, I have a few questions for folks related to church community and thought I would throw them out here.

1.  How do you or your church handle the initial contact?  Do you wait for someone to contact you, or do you have a sense  you need to reach out? What communication tools do you use to ensure this information is shared appropriately?

2.  If your minister is going to be away for an extended period, what criteria do you use for finding a minister to do pastoral care?   Who is available? who is closest? who is willing? does their theology match your churches?

3. if you are a previous minister from a church, would you reach into a congregation if you knew of someone who needed pastoral care ? when? what boundaries, if any, would you be concerned about....

*The Squirrel pulls up a chair to listen.

Ez...welcome to this room....wondering who else may pop in.

Any thoughts up front on the topic?

 I ask, as I am seeing a gap..and so ...would like to hear the stories from others to see if the gap is a chronic fail in multiple churches or is a spot-problem.

Pinga,

I belong to a big inner-city church.

As such, the minister isn't responsible for pastoral care. We have a retired minister - who volunteered for the position.

When John was diagnosed with terminal leukaemia I contacted my church elder - who then contacted the pastoral care minister on our behalf.

When John was in hospital we had visits from both our elder and pastoral minister.

When he died -both the minister and pastoral minister were in attendance.

They gave the funeral service and supported me from that day forward.

I can honestly say - through the support given by both ministers, my elder, and my friends in the congregation, that I have come to know what Jesus meant when he referred to God's Kingdom here on Earth.

My church community is a living example.

Incidentally, we have 10 retired ministers in our congregation - of different Protestant denominations.

We must be doing something right!

The "official" word? What makes it official?

It can be any of the above.

Not sure what you're asking here. Can you please try again.

We have two regular visiting pastors who fill the pastor's shoes when he's away. They have time to do all the duties required. One man's theology is on track with the church, the other seems a tad more Arminian.

This might be an interesting discussion, Pinga , because I think Ministers ((churches) and Congrgations (people) have different outlooks on Pastoral Care.

Generally, we don't wait for direct contact but hear through the grapevine that someone has a pastoral care issue (bereavement, illness, etc.) That usually initiates a phone call from me to determine need. I share what is appropriate with our church secretary and often ask that they be put on our prayer chain (secretary filters out names unless we have permission). I will often follow up with further phone calls or a visit if necessary. I also pass relevant information on to our pastoral care committee (i.e. if the person is one of our shut-ins who is visted regularly or in a nursing home) and keep the Chair of the committee updated.

We have nine United Church congregations in the area. I usually make an arrangement with one of my colleagues to cover funerals, hospital visiting and pastoral care emergencies. I reciprocate, if asked. Theology isn't an issue.

No. My first call would be to the incumbent minister and share what I knew (having sought consent to share, if possible, in the first instance). I would ask if I could help my colleague, but I would not ever visit without a colleague's foreknowledge, if at all possible . If the first encounter was casual, or secondary, and in which I learned of a pastoral care issue, the same guidance would apply.

Conduct otherwise could be seen as a significant variation of professional and ethical norms, IMO, as well as not in keeping with the spirit of S.365 of The Manual. The only time this might be different would be if a family specifically asked me to preside at a funeral in a funeral home, and asked me not to speak to the incumbent (I have been in that situation, from both sides). In that case I ask the local funeral director (who usually has a working relationship with the minister) to explain matters. It would also not apply if I were officiating at a wedding outside of a church and using my own church register.

In my UU fellowship, we don't believe that pastoral care is solely the duty of the minister. We have a team (currently at five, I think) who work with the minister. Each month, one of them is on call for pastoral emergencies (rather than the minister being on-call 24x7x52, although he is generally available as well). They also monitor the joys and concerns spoken each Sunday for anything that hasn't previously reached them and do ongoing visitation and care for shut-ins, people in hospital, people with ongoing problems, and so on. We do a collection each month that goes directly to the PC account and is used for expenses required by the team in the course of doing their duties. Of course, the minister works closely with them and is kept informed of persons requiring/requesting his attention and is available for anyone who would prefer to approach him directly except during vacations, study leaves, and so on. So, if the minister is away, the only thing that changes is he isn't available to be called on directly although the team are usually able to get in touch to keep him in the loop about situations that he should be aware or involved with.

Mendalla

 Re the "official word"...I could have said "church speak".  it is the word that is used for committees and manuals.

re: communication tools:  it is the methodology that you communicate.  personal visit, phone, bulletins, email, facebook, and so on.  

dks..if the church was without a fulltime minister due to extending circumstances, would your response be different? 

dks? why would theology not matter?

mendella, from previous conversations, it is the concept that trained teams are responsible for this type of care in united church as well.

Pinga - you mention that you seem to see a 'gap'.  I agree.  My observations seem to have that 'gap' showing up between those the minister/pastoral care team 'like' and those they don't particularly like.

Once I shared directly with a minister that a bereaved congregation member had expressed a need to me for a visit from a minister.  This person was generally not liked within the church and a visit hasn't happened.  A different bereaved member got regular visits for a long time after the loss.  (Same loss as first person - spouse - both funerals at that church!)

Ah, I see, thanks. We have neither.

Thank you again. Our pastor communicates with people for pastoral care via all the ways you've listed above, except for bulletins. We've eclipsed using those.

 Thanks Kay, I hadn't thought of that...but it may occur.  I would expect that there would be a gap based on the relationships which exist within the church..ie regular attender , committee person, than someone who doesn't...Doesn't mean it is valid, but just saying that by default someone who is known more is likely to be visited, supported more.  Also...the welcome upon the first visit is also likely to affect future.  Again..not necessarily valid, but may be part of human dynamics.

The gap that I was thinking of was around communication of need of pastoral care, and the identification of appropriate resources; however, you have identified other inequities.

Examples:  

You are aware of a death in the family related to the church. How is that information shared?

Quesiton:

I have been called in by others in my profession who need assistance with a problem within their domain, which they feel my skills may help.  I always ensure they are in the loop and gain throughthe process, but I do it.

Do ministers ever call in other ministers  or pastoral care teams who may have more experience in a particular area of pastoral care....

No. There would always be a Supervising Minister or supply appointed. As a presbyter, it would be my responsibility to know who they were and speak to them directly.

I have found that in pastoral care, difference in theology among United Church ministers is generally irrelevant. If they are a fellow presbyter, I would have no difficulty speaking to them. Why do you think it should matter?  

All the time.

Umm, well, theology has an impact on how you interpret death and what happens after death.  If you, as a minister, are someone who feels that God causes all things to occur, and that "God only gives you what you can handle", then it would be a pretty rough pastoral care to someone whose theology is closer to that of Vosper.

Umm...theology would have an impact if you have someone who does not believe in same -gender marriages based on their theology, and is called to support the grieving partner in a same-gender relationship

YEs Pinga, but most (85%+) of the time theology is irrelevant to one's ability to listen and offer care.

Sometimes I cringe when I hear/read 'most of the time' or 'most people'.  If you happen to be a someone who isn't one of the 'most' being discussed, the effects can be unhelpful.

I have found that none of those situations has arisen with United Church colleagues over the years. You are picking at extremes which, by and large, are quite rare. Indeed, in our hospital, there is zero difference between the pastoral care offered between the Salvation Army Major and the most liberal of United Church pastor. Perhaps it is because we have cultivated an environment of mutual respect, over the years, as well as similar training.

If you want to pick at the exceptional situation, then you may choose to feel hurt. I's suggest that is your problem. In reality, people accept spiritual care as it is offered. In a crisis, words like "I'll keep you in prayer" transcend theology. 

DKS...Can you trust me to say that the example that I give is possible and then be willing to speak to it?   If not, I get it.  I do not feel that I can speak more than in the abstract so you/I will reached an impasse in the conversation.

Not sure why you are lashing out at me for mentioning a sitution that can cause some people a problem.  In the situation we are discussing it isn't me in danger of being hurt. 

Telling a patient that 'this' medication works for 'most' people and effectively stops the pain, is useless information to those who continue to have pain despite the medication.  Having had a friend who suffered through this type of medical idiocy is what makes me cringe at the loose usage of terminolgy like 'most'.  I expect it carries through for theology - particularly in cases like Pinga mentioned.

 Gord..is it possible the barrier is with the receiver of the care....in other words, an awareness of the person's viewpoints on certain topics or past history can block them from being able to receive care from a person.

 DKS -- does your pastoral care team organize food delivery or is it thought to be self-managed by the individuals close the individual?  

Hi pinga - back to your original questions - I know our church has a pastoral care team - trained lay people supported by the minister.  I'm not sure of the mechanism by which they actually receive & share information though.

A while back, I attended a session by Rev. Brent Hawkes from Metropolitan Community Church - he had some very interesting comments about pastoral care - these are my notes - hopefully they make some sense! -

   The quality of pastoral care in a congregation has nothing to do with growth. Pastoral care works best if it is de-centralized. At MCC they have cultivated a practice of ‘re-active congregational pastoral care’ i.e. if you call us we will be sure to react and do our best to get someone there. AND, the senior clergy is the last one to be considered when deciding on who is best suited to react.   Re-active concept is taught at membership class; distinguish from pro-active – we notice you’re missing & call.  Places responsibility on members to speak up re needs/wishes.  Teach them how to access care. MCC have 600 attending each Sunday which means they probably have at least twice that many people.

A further response pinga - in the past year our minister & one from a neighbouring UCC have started doing regular pulpit exchanges in order that each congregation can get to know the other minister - then there is clear back-up available to people when one of the ministers is unavailable - eg on vacation or leave etc.  I think it's a good idea, but I have no sense if other churches do this sort of thing.

And need for pastoral care may extend to other situations too - going through challenging times with adolescents, or perhaps in marriage break-up;  people experiencing times of unemployment & financial stress, etc.   Not just in cases of death or illness.  Perhaps we need to think more broadly.

I was watching Oprah last week - a show from Sydney - she had a young couple on where one was battling cancer - they spoke of their church contacting them & recognizing the financial stress they were under - they were instructed to just put their bills in an envelope & the church would see that they were dealt with.  I thought that was a wonderful outreach. 

The financial support is a great idea.  Another example also is someone dying without insurance, or with insurance which is tied up due to the beneficiaries...and not able to cover costs.

I like the idea of teaching pastoral care proactively as part of the onboarding process.   It also gives people permission, I would hope to reach out to their own friends, not awaiting the church...but, engaging the church.

I also like the idea of a team ministry even in fulltime.  This means that when a crisis occurs, there is a known commodity that they will be working with...what a great idea. 

I understand your reluctance to be specific. What I am describing are the pastoral norms I have broadly experienced over the years and how I practice my own ministry and have experienced the practice of my colleagues, both in the United Church and outside of it, as well as in multiple units of clinical hospital chaplaincy training.

If you feel their needs are unmet by a specific minister, there are a few remedies which I could suggest, however.

We do this in our city. Last year we started sharing summer services as well, and will be expanding it next year. It is extremely helpful is helping congregations feel comfortable with each other and with each other's ministers.

MCC also have only one congregation in Toronto vs. 120 or so United Church congregations. When you have a brand monopoly and brand uniqueness, it makes a huge difference.

No, it doesn't. You are expecting a result where there is possibility of no result. Medicine works on a balance of probabilities. Healing isn't a certainty. In most conditions, it works. In some, it doesn't. It takes a good medical practitioner to recognize that something isn't working and try something else. It also takes a good patient to give honest feedback and clearly say "This isn't working".

I think there's a parallel in spiritual care. Pastors don't have a spiritual magic wand. If a pastor isn't meeting your pastoral needs, and are not sensitive to that (it's not really difficult to figure out when there is no pastoral connection), then it falls on the person receiving care (or their family) to call a halt. I think to suggest otherwise is to place both medicine and spiritual care on a pedestel that is both completely inappropriate and sets both up for failure. Using the word "most" is a very accurate and acceptable term in both medicine and spiritual care.

Absolutely. I had a case recently where a colleague was covering for funerals and a family in our congregation specifically didn't want that colleague, for valid and appropriate reasons. Another colleague did the funeral and all was well. No hard feelings among any of us (family, collegaues) at all.

It depends. The custom of "sending in food" is becoming les common in an urban area, although I know it still happens in rural areas. Any time we have had personal family crisis involving hospitalizations (I'm currently in Day 20 of my child's hospitalization with some extremely dufficult symptoms), no one has sent in food, (thank goodness; we have food allergies and we manage) but this time congregation members have kept the driveway clear of snow and watched the dog, as well as offered to stay with our child to give us relief. The best support has been the freedom the congregation has given me to "take care of family first and show up on Sunday" and kept us in prayer.

 Good point, DKS.  I said food, and some examples that i have experienced or had friends experience include:  show shovelling, house vacumming, house sitting, basket of teas/hot chocolates, errand-running, phone call making

 DKS/Carolla: you both share the value of shared ministries or pulpit exchanges or combined services, so people can get to know each other a bit.  

DKS: you had suggested remedies..and you gave an example of finding a different minister where you were involved upon someone saying, "it won't work" .  What other remedies/advice might you have?

At our church we have a part time pastoral care minister who makes regular home visits to those unable to attend church.  I think he gets to them all about once a quarter.

We also have a pastoral care team of about 20.  they visit aas well, take communion to shut ins, ......

We have a prayer group who meet to pray for those in the congregation .  they take writen requests, phone requests......  We have a book at the entrance to the church where anyone can write in a request.

the minister also does pastoral care visits.

Names come to the church through memebers, families or neighbours.  ELders are asked to contact their groups ( each elder has about 8 - 10 families that they keep in touch with.

Do some people slip through the cracks?  Certainly they must, but there is a great deal of effort made to keep track of everyone.

Other little things are done too

Each Christmas the UCW buys Pointsetta plants and they are distributed to the elderly, shut in, ill, and anyone who asks to get one.  Another way to keep in touch with members.  THe smae thing happens at Easter.

Mens groups and UCW groups , pastoral care teams, choir groups, ........will organise meals and drivers and help for those at home.  Often it is drives needed for chemo or babysitting for other children when one is in hospital,   Who organizes it often relates to how the particular member is known in the church.  If the person is say a choir member then they are usually the ones who jump up with meals.

As an example, when one of the women in my UCW lost her husband suddenly at 34, she was totally knocked out.  Our group of about 30 women , fed her and her young family daily for almmost 6 months.  Others drove the kids around as needed.  Eventually as she emerged from her dark place, she landed on her feet and turned to help others in need.

in general when we do prayers at church only first names are mentioned or sometimes no name, depending on the requests of the person

Who would you look to for alternate provision of spiritual care?

umm...

in the case of requiring spiritual care, lol, i would look to wondercafe, and previous ministers or friends who I know have the expertise. 

Then again, I am connected within the united church of canada and my local community

what i am wondering about is process for those who are not..ie, how to ensure it is proactive, rather than reactive.

There afre many worthy illustrations and examples - in one sense there is no one size fits all.

One method is to create a trained pastoral team who give information to the minister when there is  a need ( and it goes the other way) the question is always how are with God?  Then it is contextual... so the team sorts - some issues are theological and beyond them ( after all the primary function of clergy is to be a theological resource).... other times it is practical - is there a need for child care etc.

The informations comes from the grape vine, from those in touch and by hunches ( someone has not been to church in their regular pattern).  So sometimes it is reactive and other times pro active - one illustration is a read of funeral of people in town and asked are they members - no one knew them but I found them on a list so phoned - they had been cared for my a family member who was a ucc clergy but they had dropped form sight for their congregation - the phone call reconnected them - it was the grapevine that got me information.

While it is true that all of us have some training - I was strick about who could preach and who I would have cover when I was gone - theology does matter.

DKS - I'm sorry to hear of your current family health crisis - the illness of a child, no matter their age, is such a stressful thing.   I pray that resolution will be forthcoming.

I'm also glad to hear that your own congregation is being so helpful to you.  That was just the thing I was wondering as I went off to sleep last evening - who cares for the caregivers when they themselves have pastoral care needs?  I think you have partly answered that.  Hopefully ministers have internal networks they can draw on for personal crisis support also.

DKS - I am sorry to hear of your child's current illness. It sounds like you have some excellent congregational support surrounding you.

As I've been exploring Presbytery websites, I've come across this site tonight - Pastoral & Spiritual Care  United - by Calgary Presbytery ... give it a look ...

http://pastoralcareunited.ca/main/

wow, love that calendar..what a great sense of welcome.

it is lovely pinga!  I wouldn't want to write anything on it!

Did you notice in the Marriage Prep section that they offer a Marriage Prep Workshop for Same Sex Couples?  I am quite impressed by that.

This Presbytery and these churches are ORGANISED. I am impressed.

 Thanks Pan.   One word that has been used to describe the importance of selection, is empathy.  There is a sense that the minister should be able to have some empathy to the situation.   If one is homophobic...or does not believe that gays should be in recognized relationships, then it is unlikely that empathy will be reached upon the loss of a same-sex partner...or a crisis over a break in relationship.  Shucks, even if you could breach that barrier, then, it is unlikely that the receiver of the care would be able to breach it given your reputation likely precedes you.

Hi Pinga,

We move with the speed of the grapevine.  Not being omniscient we attempt to be omnipresent.  As soon as news gets to me I respond.  How it gets to me is not much of a concern.  If I read it in the paper, the family contacts me or a friend.  Once a need is identified response is made.

In terms of communication tools, all the regular ones.

What do you mean by extended period?  If I am away for vacation or study I contact a colleague in the area and ask if they are willing to respond to any crisis that may arise (I return the favour when they are on vacation or study).  If a minister is going on sabbatical then the same arrangement may apply.  Sunday supply, I think, allocates two hours per week to emergency care.  If the minister is out on restorative care then Presbytery usually (at least here in Erie) appoints someone to handle the Sunday worship and emergency pastoral care.

Depends on what you mean by reach into.  If I was contacted by members of a previous pastoral charge I would refer them to the current minister.  If there was a problem then I would contact the current minister and let them know that there is an issue and that I have been contacted any further participation by me would be only at the current minister's invitation.  If there isn't a problem then the current minister has the care of that individual as their responsibility and I have a congregation of my own to shepherd.

What boundaries would I be concerned about?

First, mine.  When I leave a congregation we have a liturgy which has them release me from the duty of their care and has me release them from turning to me for pastoral or spiritual help.  The "pastoral" relationship between us ends.  We still acknowledge one another at presbytery meetings or if we meet on the street we aren't hostile to each other.  There is a new "pastoral" relationship for both of us (ideally) and each of us needs to commit to that new pastoral relationship rather than hanging on to one because it is comfortable.

Second, the new clergy's.  As the new shepherd he or she needs to look after his or her own sheep.  The new minister needs opportunities to prove their chops and that won't happen if I keep sticking my nose in.

Third, the congregation's.  Both my old and my new one.  The old needs to move on and accept the new shepherd in their midst and I need to move in and establish my role as the new shepherd in the new congregation.

Grace and peace to you.

John

[/quote]

I see that this has become yet another UCC-only thread, and for that reason I'm out.

As it should be, given the context of the question and the posters...