Discredited Prosperity Gospel thinking.

7 is a statement of faith, not fact. From an historical standpoint, Israel, the ancient kingdom was created by the Hebrew kings conquests claimed to be done in the name of God. Likewise, Israel, the modern state, was created by the Western powers, the UN, and modern Jewish leaders in the wake of World War II. Both very much geopolitical entities, not divine ones.

As to the overall rationale for this, most Christians I know do support the existence of Israel, Jae. The questions that are raised are about its treatment of the Palestinians and the use of illegal settlements to expand its territory. They not about the right of Israel to exist but about the fact that those same people are denying the Palestinians the same right.

Mendalla

Every single point above is bullshit and all are good reasons to abandon religious thinking before it gets us all killed.

So what EXACTLY does the Bible state will be the fate of Israel?

As DKS points out, much of the list is in the line of discredited prosperity gospel thinking. As to # 7, modern Israel (which is a secular state) was created by the United Nations, not by God.

I disagreed with the General Council's actions, but not for any of those reasons. 

Mon Dieu! The end of the World is indeed upon us! chansen and I agree twice in the same month! Mind you I would be more specific to say "...that religious thinking..."

Funny how absolute truth changes with each generation.

Back when I was an Evangelical the Jews were considered the scum of the earth for killing Jesus. Now they're treated like best buds.

I sometimes just the fundies would pick who they're going to hate and stick with it.

Creating hatred (and imagined loyalties) is essential to foreign policy. As soon as communism collapsed, it was foreseeable that we would need to create a new, paranoid  hatred.

The enthusiasm for is quite recent. Certainly, Canadians didn't give a damn about the holocaust at the time - or for some years after. And there was a profound anti-semitism among Canadian Christians at least as late as the 1960s.

As well, fundies are true gospellers - but the gospel of news runs out of kick as quickly as marijuana does. They need a newer and stronger version of the gospel every twenty years or so.

Well, the United Church tried... but failed.

Failure was inevitable. The anti-semitism in Canada and the US ran as deep as it did anywhere in Eastern Europe. The deputy minister of immigration under Mackinzie King was a rabid anti-semite. Mackenzie King certainly went along with him - though in the case of the PM, it may just have been that there were no votes in helping Jews.

A key figure in breaking that was Sam Bronfman, a billionaire gangster (rather like Joe Kennedy with whom he was a business friend). For all his coarseness and greed, Bronfman was a better man than anybody in the whole Liberal government of King.

One reason Christians should support Israel.

Haaretz reports that a large majority of Israelis are opposed to Netanyhu's plan to attack Iran. The military command also thinks it would be a big mistake.

Support Israel. Not Netanyahu. And learn the difference.

Saying 7 times over, "because it is good for me" sounds like greed, personal agenda, self-interest.... and not much else.

When I read the title to your thread, Jae,  I thought you were going to set forth seven reasons why Christians should support Israel ...

Don't you think "God's chosen people" ought to treat their neighbours better? If they do indeed have a covenant, they should not be oppressing in the name of god.

So did I....

I didn't - not for a single second..........

My thought was, "what mischief is he up to now?"

I notice he didn't mention justice, truth or human dignity. Or love. I'd have thought Christians might want to ponder such things. Maybe Jae has issues with complexity?

or with justice, truth and human dignity.

Thing is Mike, I don't really care about complexity all that much. I just want to live for today, have fun, and dance. 

And screw everyone else? So why bother yourself with stuff like Jewish-Palestinian issues when you can be bothered finding out what's really happening and why? Go dance.

Excellent point brother.

That's all well and good up to a point. If you are going to put your head into the sand, don't critique issues by saying things like the OP. 

Yes mother, sorry mother. Can I go outside and play now. 

Seriously Jae? 

If you`re going to chide me as if you are my parent then I will respond accordingly. 

okay jae. Go out an play. Please.

Tell your mother she wants you.

Thing is Jae, it is not automatically a given that not supporting some of the decisions of the Israeli government means people are not supporting Israel, or the people of Israel. In fact, it could mean just the opposite. Lots of people think the Israeli government are making some big mistakes to their own detriment as well as others', The intent is not for people to turn their backs on Israel. That's the misconception here, I think. What constitutes support for Israel is not black and white. There are many Israelis who disagree with their own government's decisions, but we don't hear about them as much.

Have you ever been in a position where you feel a friend, someone who you respect and care about, is making some detrimental mistakes and you risk telling them and having them stop talking to you, or not telling them anything and fearing what it will lead to for their own good and that of others?

Besides that, this survey indicates (a year old), when it comes to the settlements, that 60% of Israelis themselves are opposed to the settlements in disputed territories. Israeli opinion on the matter is not solidly one way or the other.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/16/60-pecent-of-israelis-say_n_539380.html

If you don't like being ridiculed, then stop being ridiculous.

sorry. The survey is 2 yrs. old, not one.

I would think that religious Jews who are familiar with Jeremiah and the other prophets recognize parallels between the Judah of their time which exploited the marginalized and the current Israeli government exploitation of the Palestinians.

We've asked that countless times of Jae. Every time he starts to develop some social skills, he blows them up and goes back to square one. He's kinda like the LA Clippers.

Who says he wants to?

Jae's gonna live forever...

So Jae, is this one of the reasons you are attending one of Canada's premiere Christian Universities? If you just wanted fo have fun and dance couldn't that $12000 dollars a year been put to better use?

One of? One of??

God has called me to the school I'm currently at, and so I have willingly gone. While there I do as much playing and dancing as possible.

So are you telling me there is only one Christian University in Canada? If so is this the one you are attending Jae? I am rather curious at what kind  of credentials you need to qualify for enrolment.

Where's the fun in that? Now eating multiple cones of chocolate-dipped ice cream  -- that's fun. 

No dreamerman, I was just showing school pride by questioning your statement that I was going to "one of Canada's premiere Christian Universities." (<--emphasis mine). Canada has been blessed with a number of excellent Christian post-secondary institutions.

As for the qualifications needed for admission, why do you ask? Are you interested in applying?

I am not interested in applying. I already wasted about $5000  twelve years ago on college. I ask because I am curious at what level of Christian belief you need or what kind of grades you need for admisssion to this University.

Actually come to think about it around 15 years ago I was considering admission for college in Toronto to become a Cadet in the Salvation Army. It is funny how life changes.

All of the above is made up by the Jews except for #3. Excerpts from the holy book of Jews turned me right off their causes.

yebamoth98a: All gentile children are animals.

abodah zarah36b: Gentile girls are in a state of niddah (filth) from birth

abodah zarah 22a-b: Gentiles prefer sex with cows.

menahoth 436-44a:A jewish man is obligated to say the following prayer every day, "thank you god for not making me a Gentile a woman or a slave.

yebamoth63a: declares that agriculture is the lowest form of occupations.

Some of their declarations are as bad as what is read in the Koran.

Read the parts of the bible that occur between the warm, fuzzy bits. Then you'll have three books to be repulsed by!

what book are you quoting here Fern?  Normally "the holy book[s] of the Jews" would be used to refer to the Tanakh, which is to say the books commonly used in Christian Old Testaments, albeit in a different order.  And I don't recognize any of these as coming from that source.

chansen,

what are the warm fuzzy bits to which you refer?  And then which texts are repulsive?

This must be a supplemental text used by a fringe group or something  (and probably written by same group)? Never seen it before.

reason 8

God wants us to blow up Moslem men, women and children - like the million or so we've already killed in Iraq and Afghanistan. He wants Iraeli bombers to blast Teheran, and Canadians to join in as a sign of our love of Jesus.

Sometimes, the scent of sacrificed oxen just isn't enough.

Fern is referring to a number of Jewish writings that appear in what might be called "supplemental writings" - mostly the Talmud and the Mishnah. It's an overstatement to say that they're "holy books." Jews would regard at most the Tanakh (what we call the Old Testament, although we've changed the order of the books to suit Christian messianic understandings) and some Jews would regard as holy only the Torah (Genesis-Deuteronomy.) The Talmud and Mishnah are rabbinic writings, explanations of how to apply the holy writings. They're less authoritative than Scripture; they're more authoritative than what we would call commentaries. I don't know of any Jewish community that would consider them "holy books."

That was my understanding of the source and its nature as well Steven, I just wanted to push the issue.

I had actually heard of those texts but have never read them (maybe a few things here and there). I didn't know things like that were written so explicitly in them.