Want to stop or at least greatly reduce anti-Semitism? Stop the settlements and end the occupation. There is a direct connection between growing world wide anti-Semitism and the right wing politics of B Netanyahu and his coalition in the Knesset. 

Adbusters' response to the charge.

And a perspective from a Jewish writer Max Ajl On Charges of “antisemitism” at Occupy Wall Street

People can decide for themselves.

LB

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To silence criticism is to silence freedom.
      Sidney Hook

The photo of Mubarak as a Jewish blood sucker comes from the Arab Spring of course.

It would be a great pity if antisemtism became a commonality between the Arab spring and Occupy Wall Street. But unfortunately there is a clear antisemitic streak among some elements of the far left.

For example, in an article titled “Why Won’t Anyone Say They’re Jewish?” Kalle Lasn, editor of the Canadian magazine Adbusters, produced a list of American neo-conservatives with a dot (or perhaps it’s a little yellow star) beside each Jew. “Half of them are Jewish,” he writes, in case his readers can’t count. And, he says, they control “Rumsfeld’s Defence Department.”

Lasn added, rather darkly, “One wonders what Israeli-American relations, and indeed what American relations with the rest of the world would look like if [they]… were also in charge at [the U.S.] State [Department].”

Whenever someone starts singling out the Jews among his enemies, he's obviously crossed over into antisemitism.  We've even seen this here on Wonder Cafe. Our own little antisemitic Senator McCarthy, Easydoesit, writes: 

"Are you a Jew? And if so, do you belong to any Jewish organization...? In the interest of full disclosure, you owe this information to the members of WC."

Obviously, such voices belong to the crazed fringes of political discourse. Hopefully, they'll stay on the fringes of Occupy Wall Street, too.

Their are, indeed, anti-hate laws. Funny how the Brians of this world never get charged.

Your attempt Brian to brand me as an anti-Semite unfortunately follows the tactics of many in the blogosphere who defend the politics of Israel in the Middle East. If reason fails, try to intimidate the opposition by calling them anti-Semitic or a Jew hater. I am surprised you don't call me a terrorist which is another preferred tactic of the Israeli camp. 

Obviously your perception of my question as being anti-Semitic is different form mine, so let me ask the question differently.

1. Are you Jewish? Notice I have used the adjective instead of the noun so you won't go into another of your rants.

2. What organization do you represent? Are you for example a member of the Jewish Internet Defence Force? Your familiarity with the social media leads me to believe this to be the case.

Why not be honest and answer the question? In business, full disclosure is necessary to avoid conflict of interest.

And for once try addressing the root cause of the conflict in the Middle East which of course is the settlements and the occupation. You and your friends in the Israeli camp seem to think this is just a side show, but for the Palestinians it is anything but. They have endured occupation for over 40 years and now want a state of their own. If the Israelis can have their own country/state, why not the Palestinians???

A Jewish congregation has just held a service at Occupy War St.  Must be some of them there anti-semitic Jews.

Are there folks in the demonstrations who protest Israeli policies?  Most certainly given the number of people involved.

Are there people in the crowd who are anti-semitic?  In all probability yes.

Does that mean they are taking over the "movement"?  That would be laughable.

DOes the media like to highlight such extremist postitions within the widely disparate movement?  Well if it sells......

or discredits

Why am I not surprised to read the excerpt from this article that Brian has reproduced?    It seems so typical of what is happening these days.

And the reaction on this site is typical too.   I am having to face up to what appears to be anti-Semitism on WC, although I have been trying to ignore it and wish it away.

UCC advertises itself as tolerant.   But I see so much hateful, suspicious and negative commentary here.   You might expect it of me, having aligned myself with a conservative church (and one in which there is still anti-semitism in countries such as Russia).   But I find myself in the curious position of being more tolerant than some UCC members, at least on this issue.

It is so bizarre I don't know what to think.

I figured eventually Brian from Toronto would figure out a way to make this all about him.

"hateful, suspicious, negative commentary."   

Why don't you argue him using facts if you disagree with him?

Facts is not what he's interested in. Prejudice is not based on fact. It's often based on digging fervently until you can find some obscure reference or happenstance so small and insignificant that it would other wise go unnoticed in the broader situation, and elevating that ridiculous obscurity to a huge paintbrush to slosh your prejudice far and wide.

The idea that the wall street occupation is based on hatred of Jews is so ridiculous that it defies the imagination... unless you're only purpose in life is to pretend that what you've chosen to believe is the ultimate truth, so that you can be hailed as the important prophet you long to be.

Prejudice is never about facts, but it's often about puerile insecurities and the need for attention.

Please name one poster and provide an example of their anti-semitism on this site.

Fascinating response.

I post a piece that notes antisemitism at the Occupy Wall Street demo but also notes that other demonstrators have distanced themselves from the antisemitism and highlights Jewish involvement in the demonstration.  I note this is sort of antisemitism is a fringe phenomena.

Does anyone express disapproval of the antisemitism?

No, not a word. Just a torrent of abuse.

Clearly, in the eyes of Easydoesti, graeme and Witch, antisemitism isn't a problem - quite the contrary.  For them, the only problem is if someone draws attention to it.

Between them, these three have as much insight a a a scuzzy bathtub ring.

ACtually the quote you keep reposting does not prove racism.  In the minds of many people circumcision (male or female) for any reason other than medically necessary is genital mutilation.  Obviously many people feel otherwise, particularly with male circumcision.

Witch is not slandering anyone.  He is probably being deliberately provacative.  But the fact remains that Jewish males are circumcised and that some people find circumcision a form of genital mutilation.

Witch was being very obvious there.

Mostly it is more subtle.  It a really a question of emphasis.  Why is Palestine a talking point for UCC but not the Nagorny Karabakh conflict (with its hundreds of thousands of Muslim refugess)?     Is it because in this case the opposing side is Armenia, fellow Christians? 

Easy Does it Says

For me, what is going on in the West Bank is one of the greatest examples of social injustice in modern history, and I refuse to sit back and do nothing even if my contribution reaches only a few people. 

​​He says he doesn't have time to worry about all the conflicts in the world.  Fine.  How about starting with the ones where Christians are clearly at fault, rather than Jews?

Is is because (a shrinking number) of Palestinians are Christians and you want to show solidarity?  

If so, why did I get wall-to-wall attacks on a post last Christmas talking about Coptic Christians in Egypt?   "Why should I care about someone just because they are Christian?" one person wrote.

So on WC, no one cares about cases like Nagorny Karabakh (Christians attacking Muslims), nor do they care about Muslims attacking Christians.

But they care desperately about Israel.   Why?

That is not an example of slander (see bolded below).  

Further as a response to the outcry in this thread over female circumcision for cultural reasons it was a legitimate question.

Some may be interested in this site Jews Against Circumcision who write, and I quote, A current ballot measure in San Francisco seeks to ban circumcision with no religious exception. Many people have called this ballot anti-semitic and anti-muslim. This is simply not true. ..... Religous Freedom does not give one the right to mutilate someone elses's body, even if that person is their child.

You on the other hand are skating very close to the legal definition of defamation....

Libel is any Defamation that can be seen, such as a writing, printing, effigy, movie, or statue. Slander is any defamation that is spoken and heard.

Collectively known as defamation, libel and slander are civil wrongs that harm a reputation; decrease respect, regard, or confidence; or induce disparaging, hostile, or disagreeable opinions or feelings against an individual or entity.

To recover in a libel or slander suit, the plaintiff must show evidence of four elements: that the defendant conveyed a defamatory message; that the material was published, meaning that it was conveyed to someone other than the plaintiff; that the plaintiff could be identified as the person referred to in the defamatory material; and that the plaintiff suffered some injury to his or her reputation as a result of the communication.  (the Free Dictionary)

Fortunately for you, Witch's reputation suffers no injury from your repeated attempts at discrediting his, or anyone's, opinions.

LB

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Slander slays three persons: the speaker, the spoken to, and the spoken of.

     Hebrew Proverb

Another bizarre thing about WC:

While Israel is open for criticism all the time, people are hyper-sensitive about Muslims. I started a thread on the Bushehr reactor in Iran, on possible safety concerns.  I am interested in the topic of reactor designer and have read a lot about it.

I got two responses attacking me for presuming to criticize the Bushehr reactor (Graeme and Witch) but no intelligent comments about reactor design.   I cannot even bring up something like this without getting paranoid responses!

Oh please, you could say WC cares desperately about roofers as I suspect there have been more posts on that topic than on Israel.

Each individual on this site comes to it with their own passions and interests, some are varied and some are focussed.  Each person will read the posts of others that are of interest to them and their interest may not be what the original poster had in mind. 

It is human nature.  It is what makes us both interesting and frustrating. 

It is also not an example of either slander or antisemitism.

LB

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Be thou as chaste as ice, as pure as snow, thou shalt not escape calumny.
      William Shakespeare

EO. Either you or Brian post an anti-semitic comment I  have made. Or both of y ou shut up.

Brian says that pointing to Jewish participation in Occupy Wall Street is anti-semitic.

EO - if you have a brain at all - tell us what is anti-semitic about that statement>

(The nice thing about being retired is that I no longer have to suffer fools gladly).

It never ceases to amaze how people like Brian and EO refuse to deal with the core issues of the conflict in the Middle East which of course are the settlements and the occupation.

DEFLECT/DEFLECT/DEFLECT

That is their strategy. When someone raises an objection to the politics of the Israeli government in the West Bank, raise the spectre of anti-Semitism or call him/her a racist or a Jew hater. In EO's case, she has raised a new theme. Now, as an opponent of the politics of Netanyahu and company, I am supposed to know something about Nagorny Karabakh. Sorry EO but I have never heard of N-K, and if you think I am picking on Israel because I know nothing about N-K so be it. The social injustice that is occurring in Israel at the present time...that is my focus and it is all I can  handle. 

BTW EO please answer LBmuskoka's question. And Brian, you have not answered my question either. Do you have something to hide?

I find this statement offensive.  It is paranoid and conspiracy-theorizing:

(from Bushehr thread--I never dream that thread would make go you bananas...seriously, never saw it coming)

And an unnamed "whistleblower" has written a letter about it? Certainly sounds creditble to me. I mean - why would anybody in, say. Israel or the US send such a letter?

If the letter is not true, it's no different from many other situations. And, true or not, it might signal an excuse for a attack on Iran.

By the way, when were Israel's nuclear production facilities last open for UN inspection?

As we know from Wikileaks, the Saudi's (right across the water from Bushehr) are hoping the Israeli's will blow it up!   Maybe it was a Saudi who sent the letter!!!   Hmmm....

I don't know if counts as anti-Semitic but it hardly counts as serious discussion, either from a political or "Christian" (as this site claims to be).   It is just nasty.  And your sneering comments about me are even more nasty.

A fine example of Christian you are.

What?  I have to wait until I retire?

LB - hmm, maybe this is why I didn't get that promotion

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Have patience awhile; slanders are not long-lived. Truth is the child of time;

      Immanuel Kant

Deflect / deflect / deflect:

In a thread about antisemitism infiltrating the Occupy Wall St demo, Easydoesit brings up Israel.  What does this thread have to do with Israel?

Nothing.

Unless you're an antisemite, Then you bring up Israel to deflect the conversation – and to justify antisemitism. It’s all Israel’s fault, you see.

Still trying to milk that ploy of cut and pasting from an unrelated thread in order to avoid responsibility for your prejudice and bigotry I see.

Do you really think anyone is stupid enough to fall for that? I mean other than the one who is obviously stupid enough to try it?

You're a common, garden variety hate-monger, Brian. And you still have not quote an antisemitic statement I have made.

Brian

You raised the issue of anti-Semitism appearing in the "Wall Street" protest, not me. I immediately made the connection between growing world wide anti- semitism and the politics in Israel under Netanyahu. Either you didn't understand what I said or you have a poor memory. So yes, it is Israel's fault. People in New York and people around the world are sick and tired of Israelis stealing Palestinian land and trying to cover it up by accusing people who object as being anti-Semitic. This anti-Semitic tune has been played by people like you for so long it is really becoming boring.

When are you going to answer my question? Are you afraid?

Anti-Semite gets called out at Occupy Wall St.

I leave it to the idiots to continue the argument over anti-semitism. It doesn't matter any more.

The US has decided on a course of action that is going to bring the whole region down in flames. The story that  Iran plotted to kill the Saudi ambassador to the US and to do it in the US is so absurd that the world press (except in the US and Canada) sees it as an excuse for some action against. Iran,, possibly bombing. - remember Saddam's weapons of mass destruction?

Canada will, of course, take part. And the bombs will happily kill both anti-semites and pro=semites.

Our opinions don't matter any more.

Sigh, the actions of government, always bring to mind "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me"

On a positive note the Globe reported yesterday:  War against Iran is out of the question, as there isn’t the money, the public support or the legal justification, although Mr. Obama’s spokesman, Jay Carney, delivered the predictable response that “we take no options off the table.” He followed it up by saying, “in dealing with Iran, we are clearly focused on working through economic measures, sanctions, as well as diplomatic measures.”

      Obama holds weak hand on Iran

I see a new peace slogan in the future:  Bankruptcy for Peace!

We all have our scripts that we operate by, habits that we have gotten used to over the years, our own sense of the blasphemous, our own sense of the sacred, our own likes & dislikes...

(One's nuance can even be another's black & white...)

Everyone here is responsible for how they feel (sense of disgust, hate, joy, hilarity), what their thoughts are (anti-semite, islamophobe, etc etc) and their actions that come from those feelings & thoughts...

And there are various groups around the world who are very good at manufacturing consent for us to believe in or follow or have 'water cooler conversations'...we daily give up responsibility for our thoughts and actions and feelings to outside agents...the various worlds (like centralized currency, the Vatican, Democracy) that have been created for us to live in...

We should be able to wake up from the horrors of history, from "but she's treating me badly, so I get to treat her without respect" or "I feel this way because he is a b*stard", to realize that they always have a choice in interpretation, in how they treat people, that even if you are being 'mistreated' or 'said names at' or had your land constantly stolen, you always have a choice in how you act...

The Palestinians always have a choice in how they act...the Israelis...graeme does....Witch does...EasyDoesIt does...we all do...and real freedom, freedom to choose the world one lives in, can be quite scary and frightening...so it's easier to live in the worlds that have already been created for us ('Canada', centralized currency, etc etc).

Jesus, the master reality hacker, pointed one way out of that dilemma...

Amen

I forgot that love existed troubled in my mind.
Heartache after heartache, worried all the time.
I forgot that love existed
Then I saw the light
Everyone around me make everything alright.
Oh, oh Socrates and Plato they
Praised it to the skies.
Anyone who's ever loved
Everyone who's ever tried.
If my heart could do my thinking
And my head begin to feel
I would look upon the world anew
And know what's truly real

     Van Morrison, I Forgot That Love Existed

I oppose he Israeli government and zionism because they have done just terrible damage to Judaism. And because they are destroying Israel, itself.

You support them. Does that make you and Brian an anti-semites?