I am afraid I must agree.  Israeli politics is just about as depressing as Canadian politics.

It is hard to have discussions with a people who don't think you have the right to exist.  (Check their maps - just a big space where Isreal now is.)  I'm afraid the problem lies with the Palestinians.  And as for stealing land - it isn't stealing if you were given it in the first place.  The only stealing was done when the so called Palestinians took something that wasn't theirs. 

What planet do you live on, Buford?

Clearly not the same one as you.  The Palestinians (who actually have the power - not just the women and children) don't want peace.  Never have and never will.  They won't be happy until Israel is gone.  And that won't happen again. 

Hi buford12

How are you defining power in the context you are using it? And to which group are you referring to the PLO or Hamas or all Palestinians?

That is one interpretation of history.....

of course. Israel wants peace badly. that's why it just bought air tankers to refuel bombers for  long range attacks. And it keeps 250 nuclear bombs just in case Israel wants to borrow them.

And I've h eard Netanyahu speak. And all talks about all the time is peace, peace, peace. I don't know what more he can do. I mean, he's annexed Palestinian lands, built illegal settlements, cut off Palestine from contact with the world, slaughtered palestinians on a regular basis...

What more can he do to convince those savages he wants peace?

ROFLMAO!!!

You've never actually been to the middle east, have you.

Every map I've seen, produced in arab countries bordering Isreal, and I've seen hundreds (literally... hundreds)  had a big map of Isreal, marked "ISREAL" where Isreal should be.

So have you completely discarded any semblance of God's command not to bear false witness? If you're going to lie about other people, at least choose something less blatantly ridiculous.

My In-laws were there several times.  I am talking of maps made by "Palestinians" - and Hamas.  And the nutcase in Iran has said that their goal is to wipe every rememberance of Israel off the face of the earth.  The fact is the Palestinians never have existed as a people in a land governed by Palestinians.  You need a history lesson my friend.  Don't just believe everything you've been indoctrinated to believe.  Your dislike for Israel is showing.....

http://www.conceptwizard.com/nutoo/nutshell3.html

Another article about the hatred "Palestinians" have for the Jewish people - from the New York Times no less.  And we know how conservative THEY are (not)

http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2013/03/03/opinion/sunday/opinion-israel-palestine-mideast-peace.html?_r=0

Oh, I get the picture. You're one of those nutbars who think that the NYT is "liberal". And you think all people are liberals or conservatives - possibly as a result of genetics - And you even think you know what the words liberal and conservative mean (but you don't.)

You think that the Jews are historically from the middle east. Apparently, you've never noticed the differences between Sephardic and Ashkenaze. (Anyway, just about everybody on earth is from somewhere else originally. Are you a man of sufficient social conscience to give the Americas back to the native peoples? No? But surely their claim to the Americas is at least as strong as the claim of Jews to Palestine.)

And no, Palestinians have not ruled their own land. That's because western conquerors took that power away from them. It was also the western conquerors who then handed it over to the Jews.  And your point is?

Sure.  They started  in the Middle east, migrated to different areas, then came back to the Middle East.  Their belief system is pretty much the same except for a few dietary differences.  And I really don't believe that all people fall into the two categories of conservative and liberal.  There are moderates as well - secularly and religiously. 

The US definately treated the Native Americans poorly, at least at times.  I'll give you that.  There are many periods in history we should not be proud of.  The question in the Middle East is will the Palestinians, given the chance, live in peace with Israel if they are given property.  I think the answer is clearly "no".  They had the chance, and would rather be in a position to blame rather than live a peaceful existence.  Just last month over 200 missles came across the border into Israel. 

Gee. And Israel has never killed,jailed, tortured or assassinated anybody.

Some day - look at a Sephardic Jew.. An olive complexion is common. They are obviously a Meditteranean people. Ashkenaze's are not. There are profound differences between the two groups.

As well, there is a long history of conversions to Judaism. there are Chinese Jews. There are black African Jews.

Many Jews did not migrate anywhere. They stayed in the middle east and lived in peace with their Moslem neighbours until the 1930s, at least.

The weight of scholarly research is that though the Ashkenzes may have some Jewish blood, they are more pronouncedly East Europeans.

When Israel was recognized by the UN (after a long period of terrorizing and killing by Zionists), the Moslems and the Jews who had been living in Palestine for countless cenutries saw Israel for exactly what it was - a base for the western powers in the middle east.

There are a great many Jews in North America who agree with me. here in Canada, we have Jews for Peace in the Middle East. An old friend of mine was president for years - and the presidency has just passed to another friend. They are both Zionists.  And both are observant Jews. They both see Israel as the aggressor.

I would argue this further. But there is no point in arguing with you. You make (and probably believe) statements that are wildly inaccurate - and some that are wildly inconsistent with each other. You're a hate monger, and nothing will change that. There's no point in talking further with you - so i won't.

I'm anything but - but I agree that it is not good use of our time to try to convince each other of what we believe.  I have never said that Israel hasn't made some agressive pre-emptive  moves, but history shows that they MOSTLY act in retaliation.  We will leave it at that.  How I think God deals with and through Israel is for another thread. 

Right. And the Israelis have been kicking Palestinians off palestinian land and taking it over, either occupting for tearing down homes to build new ones in retaliation for all that land Palestinians took away from Israel.

And try not to blame God for everything.

Certainly not all Palestinians.  But the extremists don't think Israel should exist. 

There IS no Palestinian land to kick them off of!  There COULD have been if the Palestinians had taken the offers given them twice in the past, but they don't agree with Israel's right to exist!  If Israel offered them peace and a land of their own right now, I don't think the powers that be would take it!  I know Arafat turned it down.  And it was a pretty sweet deal. 

So Israelis had a right to take that land. Exactly so. The word of God says so. And yesterday, two Palestinians teenagers who, it is agreed by both sides, were doing nothing wrong or even provocative, were taken aside and murdered by Israeli soldiers. It's all the fault of Arafat.

And Israeli has tried so hard to get a peace settlement. it has...well...and then it.....but....And even when the Israelis offered....       So you see. It's all the fault of Palestinians.

Look. If you're going to argue your case, try to do it in the context of Judaic thought - because I see nothing of any religious beliefs or principles in your argument.

I know......... 

"I am certain that the world will judge the Jewish state by what it will do with the Arabs".    Chaim Weizmann, first president of Israel.

"You shall proclaim freedom  throughout the land for all its inhabitants".  Leviticus 25:10 - God's conditions for Jewish occupation of Israel - and it refers to the Bedouin inhabitants and any others.

TAKE THE TIME to watch this in its entirety.

He is a Palestinian Arab. Did you think he would claim anything else than what he said? In all honesty though, I doubt an Israeli would say anything but his point of view either.