Almost nothing about the LHC is "normal".  It's the most expensive experiment ever undertaken and the single most expensive machine ever built, if I recall correctly (dunno if they included Porsche).  Findings from it may validate or refute the Standard Model, it may find the Higgs boson or 'God Particle', it may lead to discovery of dark matter and/or dark energy and it may eventually provide the answers for a Theory of Everything or Grand Unified Theory (GUT), but finding out about 'life' isn't really the point.  I don't even know why you'd mention 'normal' under such wondrous and lofty circumstances.

For answers about 'life', biologists and chemists are more likely needed than engineers and physicists - something many Christians would inhibit by 'protesting Darwin' and trying to remove areas of science like the Theory of Evolution from school curriculums.  Given the forward thinking of many in the UCC, it seems it might be worthwhile to promote science and add their voice in opposition to the 'Creationist Movement' by trying to get their names on The Clergy Letter (or create a Canadian version in none exists) or increasing church participation in next year's 'Evolution Weekend' - only 13 churches here participated in EW 2010 and five were Unitarian.  By name, I see only two likely UCC churches, both in the Vancouver area.  How about getting behind science in useful ways instead of this?  I seldom see truly pro-science posts here - I wonder why that is.

So to classify the LHC as a 'doomesday machine' and fear monger about 'Oblivian' seems rather pointless and likewise seems to add nothing to scientific knowledge or science itself in any way - though I must say I do not understand your motives for a nanosecond.  In fact I gather there is a chance for black holes, but any should be miniscule and disipate almost immediately (via Hawking radiation, I assume).  And regarding your last question, I think it is a known factor - as I understand it, there are no other methods available to continue - if humankind risks nothing, there will be no gain - or no significant gain - in this area. 

As I recall, the church (in general, and not exclusively) was opposed to the US SSC in the 80s and early 90s, which would possibly have taken us where the LHC is hoped to go had it not been cancelled.  One argument was cost, though I remember the last budget as being $13 B US, and even critical estimates seldom went beyond $20 B.  Yet the last estimate I saw for the War in Iraq suggested that 'effort' would go over $1 T US and possibly up to $2 T - I might have missed it, but I don't remember churches protesting that.

There is no risk that they will create  ablack hole, they would need a sun's worth of mass to do that, and last I heard, they don't have enough dump trucks.

Even if they did it wouldn't harm the galaxy, considering that the galaxy contains several million black holes.... including the mother of all black holes in the Galactic Core.

What you are referring to is not a black hole, but rather a singularity. They are similar on a quantum level, but structurally very different. lay person's often confuse the two, however, and you can probably blame the science community for that. Sometim,es it's easier to just say "Black Hole" when you're too busy to explain the difference.

Now there is very, very little chance at all that even the singularity could happen. Even so, if the unthinkable should happen and a singularity did flash briefly into existence, it is possible that the entire structure could echo to the sound of the staff uttering "WOW". It's even possible that the simultaneous inhalation of several hundred physicists at once could cause a momentary drop in pressure, causing souffle's to collapse for miles around.

Other than that.... well there's no particular reason to be worried.

Saying that the LHC is going to create a black hole that will destroy the world is like saying if you put a computer with a virus on it next to a computer that doesnt have a virus, that its going to infect the clean one xD.  It's a logical assumption but it doesn't really include all the facts.

Think about it, if a black hole were to infinitely suck everything in and grow bigger and bigger, than one would have already grown big enough to suck us all in.

I'm not gonna get into a protracted argument about symantics, but with the number of times I've read about quantum mechanical black holes all the way to those at galactic cores from reputable sources makes me say I'll stand with my terminology.  Also as I recall, the only reason our sun will go red giant in ~5 BYs is that the "sun's worth of mass" is insufficient to do that as a collapsing star - IIRC, it takes some 3 times (or 7?) the sun's mass.  And I further suggest that the chances of other galactic core black holes exceeding our - ahem, 'the mother of all...' -  closely approaches 1.  We ain't that big, we ain't that old and there are far, far too many other galaxies for that to be realistic.

I'm not sure why you're busting my chops Brett. I'm on your side in this debate, remember? I wasn't even replying toyour post at all, but rather the original poster. Check the posting times. I was still writing mine while you were submitting yours.

The LHC is not going to be the end of the world, bottom line. Right?

A black hole isn't gong to destroy the galaxy...cause we got a million of them. Right?

A stellar black hole and anything the LHC might possibly create in a one in a billion off chance, are two different thngs, right?

Or do you just need to bust chops, friend or foe?

**puts on tinfoil hat(it's all that can protect you!**

But for realz, the LHC isn't gonna do didly-poop (yeah, that's right "didly-poop", I went there) now (this was stated in another thread by a person who saw the same tv show as me, I forget wich thread) the strangelet theory is much more interesting, black holes are old news, now strangelets are the end of the world of the future! (google'em, they're pretty cool)

LHC Rap. get down witch cher bozon self.

hahaha thanks for posting that Witch ^_^

I don't do 'sides' generally - and likely never with you.  I do what I understand to be truth.  And if you follow my post and conflict with it and don't use 'quote' to indicate that you're responding to someone else, I'll point to what I perceive as errors, thanks.  (Or was your last post kind of meant as... "Thanks for the corrections, Brett!)

Well I caan see why others have given up on you as being unreasonable. I guess you do have a need to just bust chops, even if it's with people who are agreeing with your position. Must be tough walking around with that enormous chip on your shoulder.

Thanx for coming out.

BrettA, might I ask why you said "-and likely never will with you."? Why are the chances of you being on Witches side lower than the chance of you being on some body elses side?

I don't think Brett likes to be "on side". He obvioulsy prefers to be in opposition, for the sake of opposition. The subject doesn't seem to matter much. If you say the sky is blue, he'll tell you you're wrong, it's lacking in red and green.

He's just one of those people who needs to try to tick people off. the subject isn't important.It's a more subtle form of trolling.

*sigh* BUT TROLLING IS NOT DISSCUSION! *head explodes*

Well sure you can ask, Sebb.  First, let's not go overboard - I avoid 'sides' because it shouldn't matter if I'm in general agreement with someone as to my response - if some something's wrong, it's wrong. 

But with Witch - to respond specifically - he criticises or attacks, does not substantiate when he attacks and then ignores my polite requests so I can understand some vague basis fot his criticism.  Here's one case, by way of example, but not the only one...

Witch ignored my: "Uhhhh...  Context, please?" by my count and then I posted the same again on the next page with some elaboration, which he likewise ignored.  He had 4 or 5 posts between those two, as well.  Even this is an example:

I see that you ask, while he attacks.  As is typical.  What's his basis for saying any of this?  I sure dunno.  I correct errors in my view as I did in this case.  I do not argue about the sky being blue or anything of the sort.    And in my view, I don't troll.  My $.02. 

BTW, it's the same with an atheist site that someone (RevMatt? RevJohn?) pointed out did not allow Christians.  I think that's a bigotted approach so I took them to task for it.  I feel truth, accuracy and fairness pwns 'sides' any day of the week.

(Something on my (new) iMac causes the followng, I guess...  I cannot delete it, even if I delete all content *sigh*.)

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“To believe in something, and not to live it, is dishonest.” – Gandhi

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“To believe in something, and not to live it, is dishonest.” – Gandhi

Because conflict is the essence of drama!

When you make a reply, under the reply editor box, you will find a link that says

"Switch to plain text editor"

That will put you into html mode. If you delete the extra stuff in there you will probably get rid of what appears to me to be a hanging html tag.

Not absolutely sure it will work, but it's worth a try.

BrettA, I have seen many of Witches posts and don't find what you say to be true (maybe it is in your experience, I don't really know). Maybe Witch would not feel that you are "bustin' his chops" if you chose your wording more carefully and less chop bustingly (I found it sounded like chop busting aswell). Also, where DID you read about black holse and the like? I wouldn't mind reading up on the subject myself.

Also, haha Warped_Purity

always around for a little comic relief :D

my hero ^_^

Sebb:  I just included posts of Witch's and mine to show you where what I say is true.  I said he criticses and doesn't explain his basis (one post of his) even when politely asked (two posts of mine) and I say he attacks where you for example, ask (one post of his). I also explained that I don't usually 'take sides' (so not taking Witch's is not unusual). Please point to what you find 'chop busting' about: 

"I'm not gonna get into a protracted argument about symantics, but with the number of times I've read about quantum mechanical black holes all the way to those at galactic cores from reputable sources makes me say I'll stand with my terminology."

Would something like this be better, in your opinion?

"I think the problem with people like Witch, is that they see only what they believe the about black holes, and by extension science, should be."

I've been reading science material for decades and can't point to specific current sources on black holes.

I wouldn't call it a "doomsday machine" and I think that it is really cool!...cms

I state facts about black holes and you immediately claim I'm 'busting your chops', while you state things about me and never explain their basis - and all I do is ask why you state this.    Who's got a chip on their shoulder?  And for that matter, who takes things personally when we're discussing black holes, not you?

Note that I haven't even provided opinions about you... I've merely documented what you do or don't do and asked you to think whether your assessment of me is correct, especially given your behaviour.

lol

What a nice guy - always complaining about others and never explaining or substantiating anything.  But now that I have you here, could you please respond to your assertions of three weeks ago about me?

Try Number 4, in case ya missed the first 3...  Uhhh... Context please?  Specifically, references to my text dealing with your assertions, please;

- What 'caricature of religion' am I 'arguing against'?

- Which are limited to 'extreme cases, and rarely in Canada'.

- What 'brush is dipped in the worst and the few', please?

By casting stones with zero substantiation, you risk splattering yourself under one of 'em (I'm not saying your points are invalid - I just don't know what I said that you're referring to).

What a nice guy - always complaining about others and never explaining or substantiating anything.  But now that you're here, could you please respond to your assertions of three weeks ago about me?

Try Number 5, in case ya missed the first 4...  Uhhh... Context please?  Specifically, references to my text dealing with your assertions, please;

- What 'caricature of religion' am I 'arguing against'?

- Which are limited to 'extreme cases, and rarely in Canada'.

- What 'brush is dipped in the worst and the few', please?

By casting stones with zero substantiation, you risk splattering yourself under one of 'em (I'm not saying your points are invalid - I just don't know what I said that you're referring to).

Oh dear sweet deluded Brett.

I've been around a long, long time. I've seen lots of insecure people, desperatly trying to make themselves look important, come and go.

You don't want substantiation... you want an arguement. Well, It's one pound for a five minute argument, but only eight pounds for a course of ten. ¹

Failing that... I simply have no interest in playing your silly little games. I answer where and whom, and what I choose.

You may now continue to drip and moan about how I've persecuted you, and how right you are. Not that you're fooling anyone, but I wouldn't want to give you a complex, lol

1. Apologies to the cast of Monty Python

That's right... still more empty, unfounded and unsubstantiated accusations from you.  And no, I'd like to understand why you say what you say, about me... but it looks like that'll never happen.  I'm not even crying persecution at all... I'm just posting your text and asking for some vague basis.  Pot-kettle-black; in many ways.

"Name calling is the last resort of the failed debater." -- Unkn.

/hands Brett a napkin

This may help with the dripping lol. The moaning you'll have to take care of yourself.

So now that we've taken care of the kids, does anyone have any more questions, or comments about the LHC, or about physics based rap culture?

I DO! If 50cent got in a shootout with the LHC who would win?

Still more names... Are you a sock puppet for Qwerty?

"Name calling is the last resort of the failed debater." -- Unkn

Tough question.

50c shoots lead, but the LHC is designed to capture lead ions and belittle popculture, thus revealing the secrets of the universe.... in rhyme.

O_O IT ALL SOUNDS SO SIMPLE NOW!!! Thank you Witch ^_^\

EDIT: the train that is this thread would seam to have derailed somewhere back there lol

Qwerty... if you happen to be around right now, could you tell me please... am I you?

I don't think I'm you, but Brett is intimating that to be the case, and we all know Brett cannot be wrong.

Please let me know as soon as possible Qwerty, because If I am you, and just don't realize it, then my entire life is just one big hole in the sock... darn it.

Funny how that seems to be happening so often in these recent days lol

so true -_- lol

Yes, Witch derailed with his OT:  "I'm not sure why you're busting my chops Brett."  I suspect most people would have just acknowledgd the errors made, in this case by Witch.

No intimation - just a question since you have very similar tactics... maybe it's a 'spiritual person' thing(?)  And I've been wrong or deficient here and thanked people for pointing it out or acknowledged that they did - have you?  Ever?

BrettA you are continuing to derail this train as soon as it somehow begins to finds way back onto the tracks. Why can't you just leave things be?

Then stop yammering on and on about derailing and asking questions like (lol) "If 50cent got in a shootout with the LHC who would win?" and "BrettA, might I ask why you said..."  Pot-Kettle-Black in spades, Sebb!

Here's an excellent site for anyone who wants to get a feel for the massive scale of this project. Virtual 360 shots with sound.

petermccready.com/

Let him have the last word Sebb. it's far more important to him than it is to reasonable people... plus he just gets louder the more you point out the obvious.

*sigh* I suppose you're right.

Well, at least we know if we didn't have people who loved to butt heads this site wouldn't be half as interesting xD

lol

Ha Ha....

You said "butt head"

P.S.

Just so no one thinks I'm derailing again. the cartoon depicts a young physicist excitedly pointing toward the High activity Hadron attenuator module, on the discovery of a quantum singularity which is in the process of devouring his 1973 Ford Galaxie. Not really a black hole, of course; more of a charcoal grey hole, with pinstripes...

lol

Well, look on the brightside; if it DOES create a black hole, everything will end to fast for you to notice. It'll end to fast for anyone to notice! So don't worry about it.

Also, Steven Hawking's has assured the press on numerous occasions that it will NOT- I repeat will NOT create a black hole. I don't know the exact science of it all, but as far as I'm concerned, we're just as in danger then as we are at this very moment.

Well if most of you think that nothing bad is going to happen, then I'll just switch to my more positive-outlook-on-life attitude! 

Thank you Witch and BrettA for the knowledge that you have shared on this subject.

Oh, and here's a funny video I found about that. I hope this link works.

www.youtube.com/watch

lol, budget managers