Local Catholic School Board denies student after hours group
Posted on: 02/21/2011 23:02
Is this a Social Justice issue?
Issue: local Catholic school board denies students an after hours group supporting studentl GLBT issues and bullying issues.
Statement: Catholic School Board’s in Ontario receive taxpayer money – are they not accountable to the same discrimination laws regardless of “religious” beliefs in Ontario?
Should government be held accountable for allowing discrimination to go on?
Is there anything the students can do?
Is there anything the United Church of Canada can do?
Is this a Social Justice issue? Arguably. Indeed it is
Issue: local Catholic school board denies students an after hours group supporting studentl GLBT issues and bullying issues.
Statement: Catholic School Board’s in Ontario receive taxpayer money – are they not accountable to the same discrimination laws regardless of “religious” beliefs in Ontario? AS a Catholic School they do have more leeway
Should government be held accountable for allowing discrimination to go on? Probably. In the minds of some of us, the argument for a Catholic separate system no longer holds water and should not happen. But since it is a matter of Constitutional law it is not likely to change anytime soon (not to mention the politcial suicide of saying you would do it).
Is there anything the students can do? Well they could raise a stink. Depending on the personalities involved it may or may not make a difference.
Is there anything the United Church of Canada can do? Why would there be?
AbrahamMartin (not verified)
Posted on: 02/22/2011 12:58
Why do they need the Catholic school boards approval or disapproval? Approach a 'gay-friendly' church in the neighbourhood and ask to use space (preferrably free of charge) to run the program. That way, you're independent of church control or school board control. Sometimes we have to 'think outside the box' and 'act outside the box'; as much as I hate cliches. There's more than one way to skin a rabbit. (Oh, drat, another cliche. Sorry)
Rowan
Posted on: 02/22/2011 13:06
I assume they would need board approval if they want to hold meetings on school property. Or if they wanted to advertise the group in the school paper, or with posters in the school or on a school website.
jon71
Posted on: 02/23/2011 08:33
If the school uses taxpayer money then the school has no legal right to discriminate. If they are completely self funded then the ban would be legal, but still morally wrong.
MikePaterson
Posted on: 02/23/2011 09:07
This doesn't seem like a "global" issue. Seems more like local politics to me... there are plenty of good Protestants who'd just "heal" all the gays and problem over. So much sad "dumb" in the world...
GordW
Posted on: 02/23/2011 11:16
jon71 wrote:
If the school uses taxpayer money then the school has no legal right to discriminate. If they are completely self funded then the ban would be legal, but still morally wrong.
Nope. Any school can choose what groups can operate as a school group. ANd just as Catholic schools can refuse to let public health come and give teen girls HPV vaccinations they are allowed to make this choice. Catholic schools have as part of their mandate to propomte Catholic social teaching. WHile I disagree with the choice I will uphold that they have the authority to make it.
AbrahamMartin (not verified)
Posted on: 02/23/2011 12:14
GordW wrote:
jon71 wrote:
If the school uses taxpayer money then the school has no legal right to discriminate. If they are completely self funded then the ban would be legal, but still morally wrong.
Nope. Any school can choose what groups can operate as a school group. ANd just as Catholic schools can refuse to let public health come and give teen girls HPV vaccinations they are allowed to make this choice. Catholic schools have as part of their mandate to propomte Catholic social teaching. WHile I disagree with the choice I will uphold that they have the authority to make it.
Agreed.
Elis
Posted on: 02/27/2011 22:51
I think that it is just a matter of time before these schools are going to get their funding yanked for their discriminatory policies. For example public schools are not allowed to keep GLB books out of the library anymore or discriminate against GLB teachers or parents or children. I think that it is just a matter of time before GLB students will also be protected. In fact I don't see why their rights (which are clearly protected under the Charter) are not being protected. Just recently there has been a case in Saskatchewan where Marriage Commissioners had to marry GL couples if they applied to be married regardless of their religious beliefs. It seems to me that one could make a similar argument here.
Azdgari
Posted on: 02/28/2011 01:58
One can't fund a religiously-based school and simultaneously expect it not to behave according to its religious doctrines. The problem here is that the Ontario government gives the religion of Roman Catholicism special legal status and priviledges - such as the priviledge of having its own publicly funded school system.
RevMatt
Posted on: 02/28/2011 08:31
Agreed, but since it would be political suicide to change the system, don't expect anything different any time soon.
Unless someone can win a court case, but given that the school system is a constitutional issue (as I understand it), don't hold your breath.
Azdgari
Posted on: 02/28/2011 13:37
I'm not holding my breath. Just pointing out that given the school's mandate from the government,they are totally justified in being selective according to their doctrines.
somegalfromcan
Posted on: 02/28/2011 14:56
Just wondering, does Ontario offer similar funding levels to other religious (christian and non-christian) groups wanting to set up schools? Same question for other provinces that have publicly funded Catholic school boards.
The Catholic schools in BC are considered to be private and I don't believe they get any more funding than any other private school.
chansen
Posted on: 02/28/2011 15:14
somegalfromcan wrote:
Just wondering, does Ontario offer similar funding levels to other religious (christian and non-christian) groups wanting to set up schools? Same question for other provinces that have publicly funded Catholic school boards.
John Tory, in the previous Ontario provincial election, proposed funding other faith schools similarly to the Catholics, but it was so hugely unpopular, it pretty much cost him any chance at the election.
We're kinda stuck with this system of funding the Catholics, but no other faith schools. I wish we could pull the plug on Catholic school public funding, and I bet that point of view would be popular, but I don't suppose it would be easy.
jgerrie
Posted on: 02/28/2011 15:29
I would propose that we move to a single public school system that allowed different cultural groups, including religious groups, the ability to add user subscribed classtime to the end of regular school hours for any number of days a week. Such groups could either restrict such classes to their members or allow them to be open to any students (and families) willing to cover the subscription fees (to cover the costs of the teacher, and use of the public space, etc). Protestant groups might be willing to cooperate on such classes (Bible, hymns, theology, language, ethics), Catholic groups could have their Catechism tought, etc. Buddhists might wish to have meditation taught, Jews and Muslims their languages and scriptures, and who knows what other groups might be able to galvinize enough support to cover the costs for such subscription courses (it would depend on the numbers in any particular area). I think such a model, which I call the "Public Schools as Multi-cultural Community Centres" model, is the most appropriate for a pluralistic liberal society.
somegalfromcan
Posted on: 02/28/2011 15:46
Couldn't it be considered discrimination to only fund the Catholic schools? Have any other faith groups challenged it?
chansen
Posted on: 02/28/2011 22:52
Of course it's discriminatory, but there is no appetite to change it, and I'm not aware of any challenges (though there may be some).
Comments
GordW
Posted on: 02/21/2011 23:09
AbrahamMartin (not verified)
Posted on: 02/22/2011 12:58
Why do they need the Catholic school boards approval or disapproval? Approach a 'gay-friendly' church in the neighbourhood and ask to use space (preferrably free of charge) to run the program. That way, you're independent of church control or school board control. Sometimes we have to 'think outside the box' and 'act outside the box'; as much as I hate cliches. There's more than one way to skin a rabbit. (Oh, drat, another cliche. Sorry)
Rowan
Posted on: 02/22/2011 13:06
I assume they would need board approval if they want to hold meetings on school property. Or if they wanted to advertise the group in the school paper, or with posters in the school or on a school website.
jon71
Posted on: 02/23/2011 08:33
If the school uses taxpayer money then the school has no legal right to discriminate. If they are completely self funded then the ban would be legal, but still morally wrong.
MikePaterson
Posted on: 02/23/2011 09:07
This doesn't seem like a "global" issue. Seems more like local politics to me... there are plenty of good Protestants who'd just "heal" all the gays and problem over. So much sad "dumb" in the world...
GordW
Posted on: 02/23/2011 11:16
If the school uses taxpayer money then the school has no legal right to discriminate. If they are completely self funded then the ban would be legal, but still morally wrong.
Nope. Any school can choose what groups can operate as a school group. ANd just as Catholic schools can refuse to let public health come and give teen girls HPV vaccinations they are allowed to make this choice. Catholic schools have as part of their mandate to propomte Catholic social teaching. WHile I disagree with the choice I will uphold that they have the authority to make it.
AbrahamMartin (not verified)
Posted on: 02/23/2011 12:14
If the school uses taxpayer money then the school has no legal right to discriminate. If they are completely self funded then the ban would be legal, but still morally wrong.
Nope. Any school can choose what groups can operate as a school group. ANd just as Catholic schools can refuse to let public health come and give teen girls HPV vaccinations they are allowed to make this choice. Catholic schools have as part of their mandate to propomte Catholic social teaching. WHile I disagree with the choice I will uphold that they have the authority to make it.
Agreed.
Elis
Posted on: 02/27/2011 22:51
I think that it is just a matter of time before these schools are going to get their funding yanked for their discriminatory policies. For example public schools are not allowed to keep GLB books out of the library anymore or discriminate against GLB teachers or parents or children. I think that it is just a matter of time before GLB students will also be protected. In fact I don't see why their rights (which are clearly protected under the Charter) are not being protected. Just recently there has been a case in Saskatchewan where Marriage Commissioners had to marry GL couples if they applied to be married regardless of their religious beliefs. It seems to me that one could make a similar argument here.
Azdgari
Posted on: 02/28/2011 01:58
One can't fund a religiously-based school and simultaneously expect it not to behave according to its religious doctrines. The problem here is that the Ontario government gives the religion of Roman Catholicism special legal status and priviledges - such as the priviledge of having its own publicly funded school system.
RevMatt
Posted on: 02/28/2011 08:31
Agreed, but since it would be political suicide to change the system, don't expect anything different any time soon.
Unless someone can win a court case, but given that the school system is a constitutional issue (as I understand it), don't hold your breath.
Azdgari
Posted on: 02/28/2011 13:37
I'm not holding my breath. Just pointing out that given the school's mandate from the government,they are totally justified in being selective according to their doctrines.
somegalfromcan
Posted on: 02/28/2011 14:56
Just wondering, does Ontario offer similar funding levels to other religious (christian and non-christian) groups wanting to set up schools? Same question for other provinces that have publicly funded Catholic school boards.
The Catholic schools in BC are considered to be private and I don't believe they get any more funding than any other private school.
chansen
Posted on: 02/28/2011 15:14
Just wondering, does Ontario offer similar funding levels to other religious (christian and non-christian) groups wanting to set up schools? Same question for other provinces that have publicly funded Catholic school boards.
John Tory, in the previous Ontario provincial election, proposed funding other faith schools similarly to the Catholics, but it was so hugely unpopular, it pretty much cost him any chance at the election.
We're kinda stuck with this system of funding the Catholics, but no other faith schools. I wish we could pull the plug on Catholic school public funding, and I bet that point of view would be popular, but I don't suppose it would be easy.
jgerrie
Posted on: 02/28/2011 15:29
I would propose that we move to a single public school system that allowed different cultural groups, including religious groups, the ability to add user subscribed classtime to the end of regular school hours for any number of days a week. Such groups could either restrict such classes to their members or allow them to be open to any students (and families) willing to cover the subscription fees (to cover the costs of the teacher, and use of the public space, etc). Protestant groups might be willing to cooperate on such classes (Bible, hymns, theology, language, ethics), Catholic groups could have their Catechism tought, etc. Buddhists might wish to have meditation taught, Jews and Muslims their languages and scriptures, and who knows what other groups might be able to galvinize enough support to cover the costs for such subscription courses (it would depend on the numbers in any particular area). I think such a model, which I call the "Public Schools as Multi-cultural Community Centres" model, is the most appropriate for a pluralistic liberal society.
somegalfromcan
Posted on: 02/28/2011 15:46
Couldn't it be considered discrimination to only fund the Catholic schools? Have any other faith groups challenged it?
chansen
Posted on: 02/28/2011 22:52
Of course it's discriminatory, but there is no appetite to change it, and I'm not aware of any challenges (though there may be some).