elisabeth
Olympics - sending people to Russia
Posted on: 07/29/2013 00:40
There has been a lot of discussion in the news about the new law passed in Russia which makes it against the law to basically promote equality for GLBT people. On the Canadian travel advisory web site the Canadian Government makes it clear that it is not against the law in Russian to be "homosexual" however; you can't in any way promote it. This is a bit of a bind when coming from a country where not only is being GLBT ok but we are able to get legally married, adopt, participate in surrogacy agreements to have children and in fact have the right not to be discriminated against under our Charter of Rights and Freedoms.
So the IOC, seems to have a bit of a problem as they have given the winter games to this country and the rest of the world (or at least the rest of the world who are sending athletes) will be arriving very soon in Russia in order to participate in the Olympics. To date as far as I have read the IOC is saying that they will not change the venue. They say that they have been in discussions with Russia officials and they have received assurances "from the highest level" that none of "our" athletes or support staff will be prosecuted under this law. Presumably that means that our GLB athletes can go and talk about their lives and their partners without being harassed and jailed. But this does not stop the atrocities that are taking place in Russia at this time.
I cannot help that history is repeating itself. I remember as a child and then in University sitting in shame as I listened to teachers and then professors explain how the populous of the time allowed the Olympics to go on when Hitler hosted the games. We were told that the reason that this happened was that no one really knew at that point what was happening to the Jews. But we were assured that had we known the world would have stood up, side by side with our Jewish brothers and sisters and certainly the games would not have gone on. Generally at that point the teacher says something like - we as Canadians- as a nation are so sorry that we did not do the right thing at that time. Well this time we do know what Russia is doing. We need to stand up and make a statement.
The Chef .... of the Canadian team for 2012 is Gay and he is arguing that the games must go on because the athletes have been training hard and they should not be the ones who are sacrificed at the table of politics. I do understand what he is saying. But can we compromise. How about what about delaying the games one year, selecting a new country, one that reflects the morals that are supposed to reflect what the games are supposedly stand for, to host the games. Certainly, there are many winter nations that already have geography and a lot of the infrastructure in place to host the games. The point is that it would be better to have games that are less flashy than to go down in history as pandering to another regime, like the Nazis that are killing their own people because it would be too expensive or inconvenient to change a venue at this point. The argument that the world should gather in a nation while they were exterminating the Jews in massive ovens because it would be financially difficult for the commerical sponsors or causes the athletes inconvenience is an obsense argument. It is just as obsense when used against GLBT peoples and their families and friends. But perhaps you say that GLBT people are not being exterminated like the Jews. Except the news coming out of Russia is that the new law is being used as an excuse for squads to round up young Gay men who are then tortured, sexually abused and then video outed, arrested and jailed. I expect that those young men will not live long.
The other problem is how can the Canadian government, send their athletes to Russia. I have read the travel advisory on the Canadian web site to Russia. It is clear that just telling Russian people that in Canada is it normal for same sex couples to be married and have children (biological and adopted) would be violating the law. It seems to me that if we are going to send our team this year then we will be forced to muzzle them and tell them that they cannot talk about GLBT issues (ie tell them to pretend that GLBT people do not exist) , or tell them go ahead talk all they want because our government has negotiated an exemption for you alone for these games. The second suggestion is hypocrisy and if in fact western athletes, support staff and journalists are allowed to talk freely within the Olympic village the concern I have is it is likely to create a feeling of comfort within the Russian GLTB community. This feeling of comfort will then foster a belief in Russia that in fact it is safe to be a GLTB person or support a GLTB person only to find once the world departs the draconian laws are still in effect.
So what do we do? The only thing that we can do is control our own actions. Do not buy Russian goods, do not send our athletes to this country. Perhaps if all of the western nations refuse to send their athletes, maybe Russia would realize that they have finally stepped over a line and back down? But even if Russia does not change it's ways, we will know that we have not been complicit in this wrong - we finally will have done the right thing - and when we look back through the dusty pages of history this time as a nation we will not have to say "We are sorry".
Search
Recently Active...
Comments
Jobam
Posted on: 08/09/2013 20:30
It would seem that the real women website is getting flooded with traffic...all I get is Bandwidth Limit Exceeded hmm....
chansen
Posted on: 08/09/2013 20:49
Well, then they've achieved one thing they wanted: Attention.
InannaWhimsey
Posted on: 08/10/2013 00:04
https://www.youtube.com/watch?annotation_id=annotation_195357&feature=iv...
Alex
Posted on: 08/10/2013 03:12
Well, then they've achieved one thing they wanted: Attention.
Yes but in away the press release/letter has made them seem nutty. Even right wing people are appalled.
For me it seems they have just gone off the deep end and have joined those who believ big foot runs the gvt.
The letter says that Canada ius no longer like a democracy, and that a tyrannical homosexual minority run things and oppresses those who oppose the homosexual agenda. These freedom loving and God loving people are forced by the courts and police to keep quiet.
They claim that this tyrinnical homosexual minorty wants to take over the world and make the world into an oppressive homosexual state, starting with God loving Russia and the Profamily state of Uganda.
They have become a joke. Now they will go away and die.
It;s like REAL women is thinking that Stewie from the Family Guy decided to start in Canada his plot to take over the world.
The above shows Stewie beating Lois his mother (a REAL Women). And as all Family Guy fans know this homosexual hates mothers and women because first plot was to escape from Lois' womb, and he has since been plotting to kill her and to take over the world.
InannaWhimsey
Posted on: 08/10/2013 04:22
and that's all an example of, from outside a belief system, how ridiculous they can seem
just like Muslims can seem bizarre to non-muslims
or believers in zombie jesus can seem to non-zombie jesus believers
or americans (freedom of speech, 2nd amendment, etc) can seem to non-americans
or men can seem to women...etcetc etc
from within the particular belief system, things can seem rational, orderly, safe, understandable
i intentionally once went on a forum, just to check it out, and found some people there who had conflated homosexuality as a bad thing with such things as transhumanism, transsexuals, the intersexed, naming children, and Liberals. it was an interesting mindset to experience, let me tell you :3
Jobam
Posted on: 08/10/2013 08:39
http://www.buzzfeed.com/chrisgeidner/george-takei-takes-sides-in-sochi-debate-move-the-olympics
Jobam
Posted on: 08/10/2013 09:09
It’s a scary place for LGBT people in Russia right now.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/photos-from-russia-everyone-needs-to-see
Dcn. Jae
Posted on: 08/10/2013 10:17
It’s a scary place for LGBT people in Russia right now.
http://www.buzzfeed.com/mjs538/photos-from-russia-everyone-needs-to-see
I found the captions written above the photos to be interesting. You do realize that they could be re-written by someone in support of the Russian law to make the scenes shown sound quite different.
What we see is pictures of people breaking the law of a sovereign state. It is only logical that those same people will be arrested and jailed for having broken said law. And, yes, sometimes arrests, especially if people are struggling against them, can get bloody.
InannaWhimsey
Posted on: 08/11/2013 02:38
36 Photos From Russia That Everyone Needs To See
I found the captions written above the photos to be interesting. You do realize that they could be re-written by someone in support of the Russian law to make the scenes shown sound quite different.
What we see is pictures of people breaking the law of a sovereign state. It is only logical that those same people will be arrested and jailed for having broken said law. And, yes, sometimes arrests, especially if people are struggling against them, can get bloody.
Jae,
the Kingdom of G_d takes time and there's the paradox of soverign entities & doing what is right; i imagine that what is going to end up happening is that the universal human rights that will be adopted by humanity generally will also have to have some kind of enforcement (like the bibble tells of g_d enforcing His laws?) in the sense of having some kind of global police force (dedicated to no one country but to Humanity) and economics & politics, in that in order to be a franchised country (hell will then be a 'disenfranchised' country), one that is allowed to take part in the global economy etc, it will have to ratify & follow the universal human rights, which come before any other religious faith...
maybe that's why the ewe ess eh has been putting its barracks everywhere?
or something like that...
just like trying to herd cats
somegalfromcan
Posted on: 08/11/2013 02:41
Laws are meant to protect people, not harm them - and this law protects nobody. Instead it forces people into a state of repression - which is healthy for nobody.
InannaWhimsey
Posted on: 08/11/2013 04:35
Laws are meant to protect people, not harm them - and this law protects nobody. Instead it forces people into a state of repression - which is healthy for nobody.
opposing this law is biblical and a Christian thing to do :3
Dcn. Jae
Posted on: 08/11/2013 08:34
Laws are meant to protect people, not harm them - and this law protects nobody. Instead it forces people into a state of repression - which is healthy for nobody.
Yes, I understand that to be your point of view. The Russians, on the other hand, must think they're protecting somebody from something. At what point, if any, do we have the responsibility to tell another sovereign state that they're doing something wrong?
Dcn. Jae
Posted on: 08/11/2013 08:37
Laws are meant to protect people, not harm them - and this law protects nobody. Instead it forces people into a state of repression - which is healthy for nobody.
opposing this law is biblical and a Christian thing to do :3
How do you figure? If the law made it illegal to be homosexual I would agree with you, but that's not what the law says.
chansen
Posted on: 08/11/2013 09:34
I agree. The law is extremely biblical, and is backed by one of the largest Christian denominations in the world. The Russian Orthodox Church dwarfs the UCCan, and while that doesn't make them right, when they say something is biblical, that certainly carries a lot of weight.
BetteTheRed
Posted on: 08/11/2013 13:17
What there definitely is time for, is making a 'uniform' statement. If every country that supported human rights were to quickly re-design and re-issue their Olympic uniforms into one with a rainbow motif, anarchy would rule, because if Russia wanted to host the Olympics, they'd have to tolerate "homosexual propaganda". It would be a great deal of fun; non-violent action at its best.
chansen
Posted on: 08/11/2013 14:34
Absolutely. Have almost every country make a stand for GLBT rights. Make it so that no camera or interview could possibly avoid the message.
The athletes are there to compete and that's what should be on their minds, no doubt. But there is plenty of time after their events, and especially at the closing ceremonies, for a very creative and large demonstration. Force Russia's hand to either cut the feed to their own closing ceremonies, or arrest thousands of visiting athletes demonstrating for equal rights for their freinds.
I know some people at Alpine Canada. I'll see if I can ask them if anyone is planning something. They probably shouldn't tell me if they are, but ski racers are a pretty tolerant lot. I don't know a religious ski racer, possibly because we're all training or racing on Sundays.
InannaWhimsey
Posted on: 08/11/2013 14:35
Russia has a long history of people being enslaved by various tsars (who were considered divine and, thus, infallable) who would rewrite history (it can be argued that 'Russia' itself is an intentionally created fiction, with a fake literature, all to create an entity & identity called 'Soviet'); what is happening now is, sadly, just more of the same
chansen
Posted on: 08/11/2013 14:38
Russia has a long history of people being enslaved by various tsars (who were considered divine and, thus, infallable) who would rewrite history (it can be argued that 'Russia' itself is an intentionally created fiction, with a fake literature, all to create an entity & identity called 'Soviet'); what is happening now is, sadly, just more of the same
It can be very effectively argued that the bible is intentionally created fiction, with fake literature, all to create an entity & identity called 'Christian'.
MistsOfSpring
Posted on: 08/11/2013 14:45
I don't think that a boycott would do much good, to be honest. I like the idea of moving the Olympics to another country, but which one would we pick? Are there any countries that aren't involved in human rights abuses of someone? Granted, some abuses are more horrific than others, but who gets to be the final judge and jury to say who gets to host the Olympics and who doesn't? Of course, it would be great if the decision really was made based upon who has the best human rights. At the very least, it would encourage everyone to try to do better in that department.
Dcn. Jae
Posted on: 08/11/2013 16:14
The IOC does, and they've made their decision.
RobbieJean
Posted on: 08/11/2013 16:40
This entire thing is a very complicated issue, especially for the athletes. On the one hand, the Olympics for many is the ultimate goal of their sport, where many are willing to give everything up to compete with the best and prove their athletic skill. To ask them to give it up is asking an incredible amount from them. I know that there will always be next time, but what are the chances of the athletes being able to compete next time?
Logistically, there would also be issues if the Olympics were moved to another city. There is a reason the city is selected years in advance. Infrastructure, government funding, security, and dozens of other factors need to be developed. It is frankly insane to ask another city to take on the task with almost no time to prepare.
However, there are conflicting moral issues at play. Personally, I don't know if I could visit a country with such poor treatment of the LGBT community. This is not just a few unjust laws that need to be respected. These are inhumane rulings that treat LGBTs as second-class people, denying their basic human rights to live and speak in peace. Russia needs to be told to knock that shit off.
I would say it becomes a personal decision on behalf of the athlete. I can understand and support both those who attend and those who boycott. However, the world must tell Russia that their treatment of LGBTs is unacceptable.
InannaWhimsey
Posted on: 08/11/2013 18:46
speaking to Putin (so many different places for him to try to hide)
jailed for violating the law of a soverign state
Sometimes arrests can get bloody
sometimes, arrests can get bloody
Arrests can get bloody, sometimes
There are far too many cowards with power (who hide behind such things as 'laws', 'my deity', 'i was following orders') & psychopathic authority figures in the world...history seems to be a constant fight against them, ensuring true universal human rights...
InannaWhimsey
Posted on: 08/11/2013 19:06
more news of the continued birthpangs of the kingdom of g_d (that will come aboot when Jesus --1.loveyourneighbour2.neverjudge3.repeat--rides down)
nbc tries to reassurre its glbtqrstlnemp3withasideofmayo employees' safety
amnesty international has its ever-watchful eye on Russia
Remo Williams is still one of the most fun movies ever made...
as you were, citizens
Jobam
Posted on: 08/11/2013 20:42
76 Countries Where Anti-Gay Laws Are As Bad As Or Worse Than Russia’s
http://www.buzzfeed.com/saeedjones/76-countries-where-anti-gay-laws-are-as-bad-as-or-worse-than
chansen
Posted on: 08/11/2013 21:23
76 Countries Where Anti-Gay Laws Are As Bad As Or Worse Than Russia’s
http://www.buzzfeed.com/saeedjones/76-countries-where-anti-gay-laws-are-as-bad-as-or-worse-than
Islamic countries! Making Russia look tolerant since 2013.
somegalfromcan
Posted on: 08/11/2013 21:48
At what point, if any, do we have the responsibility to tell another sovereign state that they're doing something wrong?
When people are being harmed because of the law and when the law legislates against a human right.
InannaWhimsey
Posted on: 08/11/2013 22:22
At what point, if any, do we have the responsibility to tell another sovereign state that they're doing something wrong?
When people are being harmed because of the law and when the law legislates against a human right.
and practically, Jae doesn't have to get involved (none of us do); he can continue with his ironic intellectual detachment/there are enough causes out there that Jae can pick and choose which ones he actually wants to honestly become engaged in
InannaWhimsey
Posted on: 08/11/2013 22:21
76 Countries Where Anti-Gay Laws Are As Bad As Or Worse Than Russia’s
http://www.buzzfeed.com/saeedjones/76-countries-where-anti-gay-laws-are-as-bad-as-or-worse-than
that map sure puts things in perspective -- we've come a long way, bay-bee :3
Jobam
Posted on: 08/11/2013 22:57
Why Banning Russiavfrom the Olympics.
http://www.thenation.com/blog/175695/why-banning-russia-olympics-terribl...
Dcn. Jae
Posted on: 08/11/2013 23:24
At what point, if any, do we have the responsibility to tell another sovereign state that they're doing something wrong?
When people are being harmed because of the law and when the law legislates against a human right.
I didn't know that protesting and spreading propaganda was a human right.
chansen
Posted on: 08/11/2013 23:30
Remember, WC. Jae is playing you.
somegalfromcan
Posted on: 08/12/2013 01:45
Remember, WC. Jae is playing you.
Is it wrong to laugh at some of the silly things he says when being poked and prodded???
somegalfromcan
Posted on: 08/12/2013 01:47
At what point, if any, do we have the responsibility to tell another sovereign state that they're doing something wrong?
When people are being harmed because of the law and when the law legislates against a human right.
Freedom from discrimination is.
Mendalla
Posted on: 08/12/2013 15:41
At what point, if any, do we have the responsibility to tell another sovereign state that they're doing something wrong?
When people are being harmed because of the law and when the law legislates against a human right.
Freedom from discrimination is.
As is freedom of speech. Both applicable in this case.
Mendalla
InannaWhimsey
Posted on: 08/13/2013 04:01
Russia has a long history of people being enslaved by various tsars (who were considered divine and, thus, infallable) who would rewrite history (it can be argued that 'Russia' itself is an intentionally created fiction, with a fake literature, all to create an entity & identity called 'Soviet'); what is happening now is, sadly, just more of the same
It can be very effectively argued that the bible is intentionally created fiction, with fake literature, all to create an entity & identity called 'Christian'.
:3
...and it must be scary for them...imagine being a people with no history, no culture, but a made up history, made up culture, made up art, made up literature? These long lines of successive tsars that these people have had to suffer through are like alien terraformers...imagine a whole people being enslaved for centuries? and when the new liberator comes, it's just another tsar?
so i see people there struggling to find meaning & purpose
my russian friend has told me stories that show to me just how powerful these people are and how powerful the need to have stability is...he has told me aboot how friends he knows that are brilliant, intelligent, rational have bought in to the 'Stalin was a good man' cultural terraforming that is going on...
if that can happen to rational, scientific people...
it makes me understand more the people who talk aboot invading another country and 'humanifying' them...
just writing out loud, here
kaythecurler
Posted on: 08/13/2013 09:32
Meanwhile, in Stockholm -
http://www.gaystarnews.com/article/crosswalk-front-russian-embassy-stockholm-painted-rainbow-flag110813
and in Amsterdam -
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/03/30/amsterdam-rainbow-flag-vladimir-putin_n_2985410.html
I really don't know how legit these links are but found them interesting anyway.
On CBC's Cross Country Checkup I heard a man suggesting that Canada could lead the world and the athletes by carrying the rainbow flag behind the national flag at the opening ceremony. Bearing in mind the threats being made about imprisoning gay supporters it was suggested that our rainbow flag should be carried by our Ambassdor, who has diplomatic immunity.
Arminius
Posted on: 08/13/2013 10:15
Would the Russians disrupt the opening ceremony of their showpiece Winter Games by confiscating every little rainbow flag or ribbon that gets unfurled during the ceremony, or on the podium, when the medals are given out? I think not. Neither would they arrest anyone who displayed a rainbow ribbon or flag. Their law against pro-gay propaganda is not enforceable during the Olympic Games. My guess is that they will simply refrain from enforcing it on the international community during the Winter Games.
RobbieJean
Posted on: 08/13/2013 16:32
Would the Russians disrupt the opening ceremony of their showpiece Winter Games by confiscating every little rainbow flag or ribbon that gets unfurled during the ceremony, or on the podium, when the medals are given out? I think not. Neither would they arrest anyone who displayed a rainbow ribbon or flag. Their law against pro-gay propaganda is not enforceable during the Olympic Games. My guess is that they will simply refrain from enforcing it on the international community during the Winter Games.
Unfortunately, the Interior Minister has been quoted as saying that they would arrest LGBT supporters, including athletes. So it may be after ceremonies or medal presentings, when thery are on their way to the hotel room or in other less public areas. I hope that isn't the case though. I dream scenario would be that political pressure leading up to the Olympics would force them to address the laws, but I am cynical.
http://en.ria.ru/russia/20130812/182723811/Russia-Confirms-Anti-Gay-Law-Will-Be-Enforced-at-Olympics.html
Dcn. Jae
Posted on: 08/13/2013 22:39
At what point, if any, do we have the responsibility to tell another sovereign state that they're doing something wrong?
When people are being harmed because of the law and when the law legislates against a human right.
Freedom from discrimination is.
How are they being discriminated against? Just that they can't get married?
chansen
Posted on: 08/13/2013 22:50
Look! I can see Square One from here!
Dcn. Jae
Posted on: 08/13/2013 23:57
Look! I can see Square One from here!
I prefer Cloverdale.
chansen
Posted on: 08/14/2013 00:14
Because all the gays are too fashionable for Cloverdale and can be found in Square One?
somegalfromcan
Posted on: 08/14/2013 00:31
Look! I can see Square One from here!
I think I'm missing something here. Is this an Ontario reference?
somegalfromcan
Posted on: 08/14/2013 00:33
At what point, if any, do we have the responsibility to tell another sovereign state that they're doing something wrong?
When people are being harmed because of the law and when the law legislates against a human right.
Freedom from discrimination is.
That's one way. If you can't figure out the others, then go look it up on your favourite search engine. But let me guess - you're too busy studying to do that.
chansen
Posted on: 08/14/2013 00:35
Look! I can see Square One from here!
I think I'm missing something here. Is this an Ontario reference?
I'm just saying the argument has come full circle, and we're now back at square one.
somegalfromcan
Posted on: 08/14/2013 00:43
Ahh... I thought, by the way you had capitalized, it that you were referring to a place.
chansen
Posted on: 08/14/2013 01:12
It sorta had a dual meaning. Jae ran with the second one because that was in his best interests.
somegalfromcan
Posted on: 08/14/2013 03:03
This westerner figured that must be the case and that I was simply missing the secondary interpretation.
Dcn. Jae
Posted on: 08/14/2013 06:09
This westerner figured that must be the case and that I was simply missing the secondary interpretation.
Square One is a shopping mall in Mississauga, Ontario. Cloverdale is a shopping mall in the west end of Canada's world-class city.
Dcn. Jae
Posted on: 08/14/2013 07:36
At what point, if any, do we have the responsibility to tell another sovereign state that they're doing something wrong?
When people are being harmed because of the law and when the law legislates against a human right.
Freedom from discrimination is.
That's one way. If you can't figure out the others, then go look it up on your favourite search engine. But let me guess - you're too busy studying to do that.
It seems the only "discrimination" is of same-sex couples who are not allowed to wed. Of course I see no problem with not making same-sex marriage legal, since marriage was designed to be between a man and a woman anyway.
Apparently there is no discrimination in terms of something more basic such as employment.
For me, I see no reason to sign a petition.