Ummm....yes?  What do you want me to say?

It makes for a more interesting story.  The Yamato was sunk during what was basically a suicide mission in the first place (it was to be beached and used as a gun emplacement). The Hood was the pride of the Admiralty, and that was by no means an insignificant sinking, or one that has been forgotten, but it still was in wartime, with no women or children on board.  The Empress of Ireland was a much smaller ship, though the loss of life was slightly greater.

One thing that seems to capture the imagination with Titanic, is the "unsinkable" claim that was a tad inaccurate, plus the fact that it sunk on its maiden voyage.  It doesn't hurt that there were so many Americans aboard, so the sinking became notorious in the States.

They're all tragedies - tragedies of war and incompetence.  But Titanic is the one that elicited the greater reaction, for a number of reasons.  I'm not saying the reasons are sufficient to forget the Empress of Ireland, but that's what appears to have happened.

It's not unlike those scandal mags at the checkout counter. Both have a fascination with the rich and famous and the, by now, irrelevant.

It's not a study of reality. It's a flight from reality.

I guess what's in my mind are images like the masters of triviality - Don Cherry, the sports pages.....

what's happening in Iran...GLBT rights...the fine structure constant...Canada's GNP...the # of civillians dead in Afghanistan...

and so it goes

(btw, STRATFOR just came out with an essay on the geopolitics of Iran...you might want to check it out...)

Hi graeme,

I don't think that racism is obvious in giving the sinking of the Titanic its legendary status.  I doubt it is the loss of life either.

I think it was the "unsinkable" idea that they attached to the boat.  That and the general state of unreadiness that the ship was found to be in when being ready was what mattered the most.

It has become a fabulous cautionary tale and gives great weight to the old proverb, "Pride goes before the fall."

Grace and peace to you.

John

i really don't know. The fame of these things often depends on the commercial market for the fame. There was a big and relatively wealthy market for the story of passengers who were the same race, language, etc. of that market.

And without the glitter of wealth, I'm not sure the story would ever have had such appeal.

It would be interesting to see a list of the countries which maintain this fascination with the Titanic. Of course, it probably means little in countries which were remote at the time - in Africa, Asia. But I wonder about Poland, Spain, Venezuela.

What's really floating around in my head is the importance that people assign to trivia. I know trivia is an unfeeling word to apply to the Titanic. But we have just left behind a century in which something over a thousand dead is pretty small potatoes. Yet, people assign an importance to the Titanic which, in relative terms, it just didn't have.

Was there no drama, no tragedy, no lesson of human error in the torpedoing of a ship carrying thousands of refugees?

It's rather like those people who listen eagerly and with visible excitement as wayne gretzky offers an opinion that he enjoys going swimming, like those who take Don Cherry very, very seriously, those who care whether Kate is really breaking up with Brad.

The market, our taste for the sentimental and glamorous, for the worship of fame become the only reality.

For a bizarre example of what is considered important, yesterday's news spoke of the suspension for five days of the manager of the Miami Marlins. It seems he mentioned that he admired Castro. And, even as we mourn the tragedy of the Titanic, we willingly murder and starve people all over the world.

we're weird, us people.

now here's someone :3

I wonder if he would rebuild a room of a home destroyed at Hiroshima?

Then get crackin, graeme :3

No, I don't think I ever have. I'm going to have to look that up.

Meanwhile, Halifax is going Titanic with mass candlelight processions, etc. Amazing.

I'll have to write to Jim Moore, the Secstat for Heritage, about the approaching centenary of the Empress of Ireland in the St. Lawrence. I bet he and Harper would set up a multi-million dollar celebration of it - and they have done for the celebration of the American invasion of Canada in 1812.

there was a documentary on the cap arcona last night.  It was sunk a matter of days before Germany surrendered.  I think the show was called  "the nazi titanic' or something like that.

I watched several shows over the weekend about the Titanic and I understand why it was such a big deal.

it was at the height of the "modern' age.  Cars and trains and ocean liners and the world was opening up   And this ship was the largest ever.  There was a really interesting show about the Belfast ship yard that built her and her sister ship.  the harbour was expanded, a massive dry dock was built, 10's of thousands of workers were employed.  It was hard dangersou work and yet there was the thrill of building the biggest and the best.

They worked 6 - 8 daily and 8 - 4 on Saturday.  Apparently the noise of thousands of rivets beig pounded could be heard all over the city.  the majority of the men became deaf from the work.

the entire area is just an abadoned lot now

Another show was about 12 young people who came from one village in Ireland.  Heading to the new world as a group.  All perished.

They spoke interestingly, that the company spent all the money on the first class area but that it was felt that the bread and butter of the fares would come from the second and third class passengers.  Kind of like airlines today.

I also think that there was the shock factor.  that something so huge and modern ad magnificent could be destroyed so easily.  And of course we all understand how society loves to read and hear about the rich and famous.  And we always did.

It is just one of those stories that captures your imagination

That sums it up as well as I've ever seen it done. It's not the loss. It's the drama of the failure of pride.

Funnily enough it has become romanticized over the years.

It has, indeed. For Halifax, it was a day or soppy sentimentality this weekend. The only connection, really, is that some of the unclaimed bodies were buried in Halifax.

How generous to the plants & bacteria of Halifax :3

The only connection that some unclaimed bodies buried there, eh?

The crew of the three ships might have disagreed with ya.

The folks with ties to the Mackay-Bennett ... the minister and undertaker . Her crew who spent five days and recovered 306 bodies, 116 of which had to be buried at sea.

The folks with ties to the Minia or the CGS Montmagny

The folks on Central Wharf . The folks loading ice knowing for what... the people carting canvas bags.... loading coffins.....

The folks who watched the horse drawn hearses take bodies to the Mayflower Curling Rink

Nah, I am not overly sentimental but I am not a cynic and there is more there than some bodies being buried.

All of them  long dead, and most of their children dead.

A great deal of this is artificial drama stirred up to make money.

I don't know about the other sunken ships and their stories, but I think with the Titanic some of the interest arose because of the pictures of the "ghost ship" under the sea.  That make people believe in the reality of it.  It stirs.

SG, I saw part of a documentary the other night on those very items you mention about Halifax.  Most specifically the undertaker and all he did to try and identify those whose bodies were brought to Halifax.

I did not realize (until I just looked at the map) that the Titanic sunk so close to Canada (& US).

I am not a fan of making money to make money or making it off disaster.

Yet, I also know that these stories are people's stories and they matter to people...involved or not involved. They touch people, compel people, intrigue people....

I also know we are best served in remembering our history.

The camps at Auschwitz-Birkenau are a museum.

Those people who are "fascinated" or "drawn" are often those devoted to how to prevent it in the future, who work on solving who the unknowns are, who still do DNA research, who make sure the story is not forgotten, who have worried about lifejackets and lifeboats......etc.

Someone is still working on who Michigan's Oakland County Child Killer was/is.

I was reminded of someone's post on a genealogy forum I use. They did not know if the person lived or died, was on baord or not....

There are those who whether the person was a home child or a passenger on Titanic do not know what happened to someone in their genealogy.

Again, history matters to some folks.

I don't think the market for this is made up very largely scientists or family tree enthusiasts.

As to closeness, The Empress of Ireland sank IN Canada. And it's an easy matter to get photos of the wreck. Skin divers can reach it easily.

I think history is important. (I taught it long enough to think so.) But I see very little evidence people learn anything from it.

The market is made up of many people. You asked why we care and many people care and they care for various reasons. The people who do not care have their reasons also.

Cities also rely on tourism and whether people complain about PRIDE in Toronto, the Titanic anniversary in Halifax, G8 in Huntsville.... tourism matters. People can disagree with that too....

If someone is into forensics, genealogy, solving mysteries.... then knowing the "unknown" child's shoes solved the mystery....what of all the other coats and shoes and boots in images from the wreckage?

But why so much those boots and shoes in particular?

graeme,

You find no value and yet someone who never knew what happened to ___ does. They may be in their lineage. It may be that details in this one story made them wonder. It may be a town they are from.
 

It may be Titanic or the Hindenburg.... it may be one of many.

Some people find no value in all the Jane and John Does in case files or cemeteries, someone else however might. They may not care about all of them, but maybe the ones that were in their family, that touched their childhood, was one they read about and were drawn to, that is local....

Some will not care a hoot about DNA. To those who have lost a loved one and not had a place of burial, it matters. Some think identifying 9/11 victims is a waste, to someone else it means the world and is closure.

Some think this commemorative stuff sucks. It is all publicity.  Edith Brown, 15 when she survived the Titanic, got her father's pocketwatch in a 1993 ceremony. It was pomp and romanticism and junk to some. It was likely meaningful to her and I doubt she cared that it was about PR more than giving her somethign of her fathers.

Some think the wreckage site is just a spot at sea. Ruth Becker, 12 when she survived the Titanic went down, had her ashes spread at the wreckage site. That site is one of many, but to her it meant something.

That pop movie Cameron made means nothing to some people. To Millvina Dean, under a year old when she survived the sinking, that movie and the way the story touched people involved in the making of it, allowed her to nursing home bills to be paid.

So, again, what means nothing to some means something to others. It may be based on any of countles reasons.

To those who rely on Halifax tourism, it means something...

To you, it doesn't....

Yes. But most  of what you say does not account for the absorbed millions who never had a relative or even a family friend on the Titanic. Nor does it explain the singling out of the Titanic above all others.

Perhaps the closest is the comment abount the Halifax need for tourists...

It's a Canadian story, in that the Titanic sank in Canadian waters.

It's great tragedy with a moral lesson.

E.J. Pratt's famous poem "The Titanic" - one of the best accounts of the event, with more than a little satire.

The mystique - how many millions have been spent by dive teams endeavouring to find valuable artifacts.

The event provided a great dramatic and romantic plot for books and movies.

It points to the fallibility of human engineering and some of the best and worst of human nature.

graeme,

Millions are interested in the Holocaust, though nobody they know died there.

Millions are interested in The Bermuda Triangle or UFO's, but nobody they know was lost or probed .

Some people care about the Enola Gay and not other planes.

Some care about The Black Death, the Hindenburg, the Lost City of Atlantis, The Salem Witch Trials.... they never had the plague and nobody they know was burned at the stake.

Why do people care about Rwanda but not Haiti or Hiroshima but not Afghanistan? The USS Lexington over other ships? The Romanovs over other royalty? Princess Diana over every royal? The Kennedy family?

Why are people obsessed with DB Cooper, Marilyn Monroe, the Black Dahlia, Patty Hearst,  The Lindberg Kidnapping, The Rosenbergs, the Azaria Chamberlain case, Amelia Earhart, the JKF assasination, Jimmy Hoffa, the Civil War, Sacco and Vanzetti....

People are people and not all people are alike is all I got (and I thank God for it each day)

But nobody cares about Congo where uncounted millions have been brutalized, enslaved, starved, tortured and murdered while that land has been plundered and for well over a century. And it's all be done by nice, white people, including prominent Canadians, and all done in the name  (you can check on this, of bringing Christianity and civilization to the land. )

People wept at the death of Princess Diana. They ignore the agonies of the lives and deaths of millions who are not princesses.