i find the origional premise of your post incorrect...

sexual abuse of children has NEVER been limited to just monks or priests... it crosses all levels of education, all religions, all careers, all income levels...

it SEEMS that you are suggesting that sexual abuse is somehow an obvious by-product of the 'sexual revolution', though... if i'm wrong, correct me.

this was an arguement that the current pope trotted out in defence of his turning a blind eye to all the scandals in the RC church.  and i couldn't disagree with this idea MORE... there is a HUGE difference between consenting sex between two adults and the rape of a child by a person in a position of power and authority.

to suggest that pedophilia is the natural result of the sexual revolution??  total bs.

Snootles:

No I was not meaning to suggest that.  I know perfectly well that sex abuse has been going on for...probably all of human history.   

My motive for the post was quite different.  I had added a story to Alex's thread (a bizarre situation in which an 81-year monk had jumped bail and fled England to avoid facing trial).   I added the story because Alex is sort of "collecting them."

But then I thought, I don't want Alex (or anyone else) to think I am beating up on Catholics, so I thought I would add this post.  

It also reminds people that at one time, even intelligent progressive people attempted to rationalize this behavior. Obviously that attempt to rationalize it was suspect, even from the very beginning and never gained the slightest respectability.

My fault, if there was any, was feeling that I didn't want to offend Alex, by appearing to beat up on Catholics.   Perhaps I was being paranoid.

You can't please everyone.....

There was child abuse long before there was a sexual revolution. It was rampant in the roman empire - particularly at the court of the emperor Hadrian. He loved to swim naked with little boys also naked but with fins tied on. They would go underwater and do wonderful things to him.  (Gibbon, Decline and Fall....)

The author of alice in wonderland - and Lord Baden-Powell of the Boy Scouts have both been accused of child abuse. (I'm not sure. they were certainly both sexually sick men - but I think was obsessed them was the purity of children. Both were happiest with children eleven and younger.)

the other area rampant with child abuse is that of private schools. These are almost always hushed up by wealthy parents, and well-connected ones. But sendinig your child to a private school significantly raises his or her chances of sexual abuse. That is especially true of the ritzy, residential private schools.

I think you right about those private residential schools Graeme.   I suspect a lot of bad stuff went on (probably still does).

People have speculated on Lewis Carroll, who did seem to have an unhealthy interest in the real-life Alice.   But I don't think any proof has emerged that he actually acted on this unhealthy interest (but we will never know of course).

I have also heard odd things about Baden-Powell, but I am not really well-versed on the topic.

I'm having difficulty understand what, exactly, is your point in posting this.

Are you suggesting that the problem of sexual abuse in boarding schools is much wider than just the Catholic church? That's pretty much a given already.

Is it just a general interest of yours to highlight formerly hidden abuse of children to try to prevent it happening again? I could certainly get behind that.

Perhaps if I could suggest you go into more detail regarding why you posted the article. Generally speaking, posting articles without explanation isn't very helpful. If it's just to promote discussion, consider taking a more active role in beginning the discussion.

Fair enough. I posted it late last night (I am on vacation and can indulge in staying up really late), so I was mainly focussing on the need to "balance" and not offend Alex.  I was half asleep.

Even after I posted it, I realized that I was open to the criticism that child sex abuse is all over the place both now and in history.   (As others have noted).

The story about Odenwaldschule (which I read about some time ago) stuck in my head because of peculiar combination of people who were genuinely progressive about a lot of things but went a little overboard and let it slide into defending sexually abusing their students.

They probably did not think they were abusing them, that is the odd thing.  It was a different time (100 year ago) and all kinds of new ideas were floating around and inevitably, some of the new ideas just weren't so great.

I will try to make sure I explain my purposes in new threads (and not post things when I am half asleep).

Staying up late at night is a sign of unChristian disorder. Lights out at ten. arise at six.

It's in The Bible - somewhere.

As an abuse survivor I wonder what your point is.

Whenever there is a disparity of power without scrutiny or full accountability, there will be abuse and exploitation.

As a child I believed that innocence and virginity were luxuries of the rich.'

Still do. 

Judd

I am sorry to hear that you to suffer that.

My point was--believe it or not--to try to counter-balance an article I posted on Alex's thread about abusive priests.  I didn't want to seem to be "beating up on Catholics."  I had read the above story some time ago and remembered it.

The odd thing here, though, was these children were rich, this was an exclusive boarding school, considered the very last word in modern education.  That was what I found so odd.   The parents thought they were doing the very best for their children, but they weren't, sad to say.

I don't know what the statistics are on child abuse versus income, I confess to knowing little about the area (I was fortunate to not experience abuse).  

I don't think the "Fall of a Pope" thread has as much to do with child rape, as it does with the written Vatican policies that shielded child rapists from investigation and and enabled child rapists to move between parishes and ruin more young lives.  Joseph Ratzinger deserves a jail cell for his work while leading the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith and the damning documents bearing his signature - not because he personally sexually assaulted anyone.

Yes, now you mention it, you are right.  The cover-up.  

Still, I keep thinking that if I add any stories to his post, he might think I am being sectarian.  

Furthermore, this story stuck in my mind when I read it, it was so odd that a high class, no doubt very expensive, very progressive school...would turn out to have that same old problem.   And these teachers somehow got away with it.

I am by no means trying to say that the movement for more sexual freedom was a bad thing, or that this "caused" it.   While this was going on, there were probably conservative residential schools where the same thing was happening.

I guess this is just more common in society than I thought.   

I seem to recall reading somewhere that some of those exclusive British boarding schools actively encouraged bullying, physical and sexual abuses by older students on younger ones.  Our ideas of appropriate behavior have changed over the years and this is good.  Abuse of children in any form is unacceptable in my eyes.  Abuse by those in spiritual authority is totally disgusting to me as it also screws the young person up in their relationship to spirit.  I guess I'm getting old and have heard too many anguished stories from victims of depraved people in leadership positions.

As Graham noted in a comment above:

But sending your child to a private school significantly raises his or her chances of sexual abuse. That is especially true of the ritzy, residential private schools.

I didn't think to state in the opening post that I thought it appalling and disgusting.   I thought that went without saying.

I just read an article (can't remember where) suggesting that sometimes women do this too.  I have heard of the odd case of a female high-school teacher getting involved with a male student, but this article seemed to suggest that they could go after younger children too.  Ever heard anything like that?   It seems so bizarre I cannot believe it.  The mere thought...