Birthstone's picture

Birthstone

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What does ambition look like? Have adults scared kids off of growing up?

Many call it "Failure to Launch".  Today, the CIBC reported that Youth Unemployment is a huge problem and it is 'imperative' that something be done.  No kidding.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/06/20/youth-unemployment-canada-cibc_n_3473194.html

 

"About 420,000 youth aged 15 to 24, or nearly one in 10 young Canadians, are neither employed nor enrolled in school.

CIBC deputy chief economist Benjamin Tal — the study's author — says these youth likely do not have the skills necessary to compete in the labour market and will likely remain chronically unemployed."

 

However, I'm seeing more & more kids (late teens) who don't have a job, and don't try for one, and don't feel particularly anxious about their unemployment.

 

If this is as widespread as it seems - what turned kids off?  Do they really hope for successes as we've always measured it?  Are they hoping for a house in the burbs, a decent car, or 1.5 kids with a dog?  Do they want a career like we've defined it?  Or are tiny apartments the new normal, with minimalism being embraced in a way never seen before? Heck - at this point, they can, with minimal food for minimal energy expended, sit in dark basements on computers and be with their friends all day long. 

 

Or are they depressed and beaten, even without trying?  Is it our fault?  Did we turn them off growing up?

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chemgal's picture

chemgal

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That's a huge age range to look at.  At 15 it can be difficult to have a typical job, many places won't hire until you're 16.  I wonder about the 15-18 year olds not enrolled in school though.  What are they doing?  Was this referring to not taking summer classes, or not being in school at all during the year?  A job for 2 or 4 months isn't always neccessary.  There is travel, volunteering and unpaid internships.  What about the young stay at home parents?

 

It would have helped if this article gave a better picture as to what these people were doing.

Kimmio's picture

Kimmio

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The world is in shambles and maybe they're depressed at being handed such a mess. However, the millenials I work with are smart as whips- they want to be valued for their skills and input- don't take well to hierarchy- that's just not how they roll- and they want to work smart, not hard- no point in working 50 hours a week and missing the rest of life if you don't have to- if the work gets done just as well but faster- they want to be compensated the same. They see no difference between themselves and the GM- other than age perhaps- with total confidence they will be equally competent in no time. Which is probably true of those I know anyway- because they are collaborative, creative learn and work light speeds faster than me who is a gen-xer. I think they're getting a bum rep and lack of opportunities to work the way they've learned to work. Also, take into account that the mandatory retirement age has been lifted, many baby boomers are still occupying key positions and aren't even able to afford to retire- so the prospect of working at a fast food place after graduation doesn't bode well.

Birthstone's picture

Birthstone

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I'm not sure what a 15 or 16 year old is doing if not in school - I'm sure it isn't a high level, but with the graduation age at 17/18 now, instead of 18/19, I think we're ending kids' involvment in school earlier than they are ready to jump out and get going.  Lots are doing "Victory Laps" for another year in school, but some are "taking a year off" with no intention towards planning or working. 
 

Kimmio - they really don't seem to get the groove of jobs/businesses (I'm generalizing here, I know)  My sweetheart hires young folks each year but fires them too, and has parents calling (even if they're 22) or has them whining about "Why me?" all the while chatting on phones or yawning through their day. 

 

Unpaid internships have been soundly trounced by reports all over NA, even with lawsuits as youth are essentially free labour with no increased job prospects, so that isn't a good answer.  Talk about disconnect between business & youth! 

 

And, free labour is like volunteering - I've talked to several kids who love volunteering, but won't take the step to a job, because no one expects much of them and they get patted on the back for helping.  Volunteering is easy without the fear of failure that prevents them from stepping up.  Several kids I know who are working are working at family businesses, where the job search was non-existent.

 

 

waterfall's picture

waterfall

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Most will find their way and figure things out for themselves. It's watching the growing pains and standing back to let them do this that bothers us. We tend to measure the effectiveness of our parenting on how well our kids turn out and we worry when the choices they make aren't the dreams that we've imagined for them. If we've raised our children reasonably well, I think they'll be okay....eventually.

 

I have faith in this younger generation. I know some will fall through the cracks and we must be diligent with realistic expectations that correspond with each one.

Kimmio's picture

Kimmio

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I think we who are older will have to get their groove because they're the future- as much as I resist. They do business online and collaboratively rather than top-down. Some are sheltered, I agree. But some are very ambitious. Just different ambitions. Some of them want to change the world but their way of doing things is not well understood by even my generation and older- who still have a hold on the way things are done. I agree, parents calling 22 yr olds at work unless it's an emergency is inappropriate and won't help them grow.

Kimmio's picture

Kimmio

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I think we who are older will have to get their groove because they're the future- as much as I resist. I am used to taking orders and workplace hierarchy. They are used to having their ideas praised and sharing them. There is one guy,20 something, at work who's been there for 3 weeks who gives me pointers-unabashisly- on how I could do my job better. I have seniority and I feel mildly offended- but he's probably right. They do business online and collaboratively rather than top-down. Some are sheltered, I agree. But some are very ambitious. Just different ambitions. Some of them want to change the world but their way of doing things is not well understood by even my generation and older- who still have a hold on the way things are done. I agree, parents calling 22 yr olds at work unless it's an emergency is inappropriate.

Birthstone's picture

Birthstone

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Yeah, and those parents are calling the boss asking why their kid is fired, or being expected to work harder, or whatever.  WTF??

 

Waterfall - what I see is kids who pacify their wants & dreams with hours on facebook/tv until another day passes, and another day, and another day. I worry as they don't work, or try, or gain confidence, that each day/week/month makes it harder & harder for them to reengage.

Kimmio- I agree they will remake the world - and at this point, I'd help, but when you ask what it might look like, you get shrugged shoulders.  Reminds me of a church meeting when someone said, "But who is going to take over this building and keep it nice?" - who cares?  that won't be what matters if they don't care.  

 

I wonder if adults have failed to communicate meaningful lives and work.  Perhaps we're too tired, too frustrated, driving too much, in debt too much.  Maybe the kids have a much better idea of need/want- friends (online at least), enough food to live, minimal shelter, less conflict.

waterfall's picture

waterfall

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Hi Birthstone, when I was growing up it was transistor radios that were practically glued to our ears. It's always something  They'll figure it out.

 

Could grownups have invented something like this?

http://www.dnaindia.com/world/1850250/report-hairy-stockings-to-be-the-n...

 

LOL!

BetteTheRed's picture

BetteTheRed

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I have two children in their 20s. One is a workaholic, one is not interested. Not sure you can generalize, although I will say that neither of them have any degree of automatic respect for authority. 

 

Waterfall, lolololol! I am reminded of a friend whose baby girl was born with a considerable amount of dark hair on her back. The friend was keen to keep it to glue back on once the infant became a teenaged girl... All kidding aside, China is going to be a very interesting sociological experiment over the next couple of generations. What happens when you skew the gender balance so heavily to the male?

Birthstone's picture

Birthstone

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yeah - always something... but in my basement with no hope in sight.

I wonder what life looks like when authority turns them off, but our world is so organized around it.  And if their training & job prospects suffer to the point suggested in the article, what does their life look like in 10 years when they do want to get in the game? 

 

I've wondered if the small family business in house should come back - where the family lives above the shop, and everyone works there.  Even better, have 2 units above the shop for the adult kids to move into.  But does that help or hurt in the long run?  It is normal life for many parts of the world.

 

Adults generally want a detached house with a lawn, new furniture, nice car, blah blah.  I've heard for sure that Millenials are not getting licences/learning to drive in increasing numbers b/c of transit use & high cost.  What else will they ignore, and what will they aspire to?

 

 

 

Birthstone's picture

Birthstone

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yeah - always something... but in my basement with no hope in sight.

I wonder what life looks like when authority turns them off, but our world is so organized around it.  And if their training & job prospects suffer to the point suggested in the article, what does their life look like in 10 years when they do want to get in the game? 

 

I've wondered if the small family business in house should come back - where the family lives above the shop, and everyone works there.  Even better, have 2 units above the shop for the adult kids to move into.  But does that help or hurt in the long run?  It is normal life for many parts of the world.

 

Adults generally want a detached house with a lawn, new furniture, nice car, blah blah.  I've heard for sure that Millenials are not getting licences/learning to drive in increasing numbers b/c of transit use & high cost.  What else will they ignore, and what will they aspire to?

 

 

 

chemgal's picture

chemgal

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When it comes to driving, how many female baby boomers got their licences as soon as they could?  I know quite a few who didn't until they moved out or had kids.

 

I don't think overall there are less older teens who have learned to drive.  It's just more evenly split between genders.

Kimmio's picture

Kimmio

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I think it's good less people are driving unless absolutely necessary- but I understand that in some places and for some jobs it is necessary (for now).

What I don't like is the arbitrary idea that everyone should have a car and drive when they don't need to. It's true it's not seen as the milestone or status symbol it used to be (neither is owning a home- a lot of younger people want to be free to move abd not be tied to a mortgage or car payments- and you pay a lot per square foot in the cities when you don't need a lot of space. With high debt levels and volitity of the housing market sometimes renting is a wiser choice.). And jobs can be arranged so those who have cars do the driving while those that don't apply their other skills. Jobs can be tailored so that not everyone does a,b,c,d. Some do a and d. Some do b and c. Some do c and d- so you get the best skills and attributes from the team instead of mediocrity in certain things from everyone. Depends on the type of workplace.

Birthstone's picture

Birthstone

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Chemgal, maybe overall in the country, but for urban centres it is really decreasing for getting licences.  You're right though - girls for a long time have been behind the guys in getting licences.  Of course, many rural/suburban guys not only knew how to drive (tractors, snowmobiles, motorbikes etc) by age 16, they also knew how to rip apart an engine & put it back together.  In the city, those days are long gone.

 

And that's ok - I say my daughter needs a licence and comfort in driving to get hired at many jobs, and take advantage of auto-share programs in case she wants to visit grandparents or get a chair from Ikea or something, but no need around here to pay for a car & parking.  Better for the environment too.  It might drive a push to better transit decisions.

 

The mortgage ball & chain is interesting too.  With sky high prices and high mobility for jobs, a mortgage is a drag, but still - paying rent is not always the right decision.  So we need  new understandings of financial planning goals, like how to choose a reasonable rent balanced with better returns on investments that will perform better than real estate these days.  Of course, it may save them money not repairing roofs etc (and especially if they get out of the bigger=better house track.)

 

As the heat spiked in the GTA this week, I was amused to think my kids buried in dark basements on computers had found a new way to survive global warming.  Agh.

 

Jim Kenney's picture

Jim Kenney

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Ididn't get a license until I was about 23.  My son, at 20, has no interest in getting a driver's license.  Between transit and walking, he can easily get to wherever he wants or needs to go.The CIBC study has serious faults.  If it had looked at 15 to 18 year olds separately from 18 to 24 year olds, it would have been more useful.

GeoFee's picture

GeoFee

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About 420,000 youth aged 15 to 24, or nearly one in 10 young Canadians, are neither employed nor enrolled in school.

 

I have been wondering how many employment positions have been displaced by resort to robots?

 

For example, one of my first jobs was as a parking lot attendent. I can recall working at a hospital lot in downtown Winnipeg. Customers in crisis could leave their keys with me and I would get the car parked. Now they deal with a robot. This robot has no empathy, is often challenging to operate, sometimes fails, and refuses to give change. Is this an improvement?

 

Robots pump gas, process grocery purchases, transact banking procedures and much more every day. Why?

 

 

Birthstone's picture

Birthstone

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@Jim - more definition in the ages would be good, and I'm sure someone has some of that breakdown.  But the idea that young people aren't leaping forward to adulthood is well-documented too, in other places.  The reach to adult milestones - career, own residence, marriage, kids, etc - these things are delayed for this generation compared to before.  My kids' and the youth I know offer anecdotal support for studies already in place.

http://www.huffingtonpost.ca/2013/05/21/millennials-job-struggles_n_3312...

 

The 2011 census showed that 42 per cent of young adults aged 20 to 29 were living at their parents’ house, a 10 percentage point increase from 1991. The average age of marriage in Canada is the highest it has ever been – 29.1 for women and 31.1 years for men. The average age of a first time mother is about 30 compared with 27 when the first millennials were born.

 

I was also wondering - we have more separation into peer groups than generations before.  Kids spend far more time among their friends/classmates while adults go off to "WORK" whatever that is.  Seniors are in retirement villages and daycares manage the wee ones.  For all the simplicity in a day that offers, it doesn't mentor kids into adulthood.  Maybe teens aren't transitioning into an adult view of themselves because they aren't exposed to adult ways of being.  Sure, they see tv, or commercials showing us doing laundry or driving a minivan, or they see us exhausted on a couch at night, or fretting over bills.  Or grumbling over our own parents.  And if parents micromanage teens' decision-making and participation, adults aren't helping 'launch' teens, but are removing the launch fuse and making teens mere passengers on the parent's train.

Birthstone's picture

Birthstone

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Geofee - that is certainly true for many low-skill starter jobs.  The other thing we have noticed is that many of our servers in restaurants & fast food joints are seniors, or clerks in stores, and other starter jobs.  That certainly goes with the Huff post article talking about the impact at the top end of the demographics of working/living longer.

 

Big companies appear to have less invested in their small communities, and are not imagining hiring someone for the long run.  Kids come & go, and need training and attention.  Seniors probably have that training, at least for mature approach to work & problem-solving/service, and are easier to manage.  Robots are even easier.

 

 

Jim Kenney's picture

Jim Kenney

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Hi Birthstone,  you offered several good and valid reasons for what is being observed.  There are many others as well.  People need a masters degree today to get a position that required a bachelor's degree 20 years ago.  Climate change adn global economic crises are fostering the same pessimistic world/future view that the threat of nuclear war and widespread hunger fostered 40 years ago.  There is mounting eveidence that electronics have pervasive effects on the neruological system as well as on things like motivation and attitudes.  We have a generation that is experiencing the same kind of perfect storm that flooded Alberta this week.  But we must not allow those young people who are examples of what we fear to block us from seeing all the other young people.  My 25 year-old daughter is working on a certificate in community development in Montreal after completing an honours degree in Socioloty at U Vic, traveling in Europe, and doing a Canada World Young exchange with 3 months in Bolivia.  There is an article in the business section of today's Calgary Herald about young entrepreneurs in Hamilton, and I have seen many other articles about entrepreneurs in their teens and twenties starting successful companies.  Some have made more money by the time they are 20 than I have made in my whole life.  Overall, the bell curves for that generation have been flattened with many more people that are found towards the ends of life styles, attitudes, etc.  In an evolutonary sense, this might be a very good thing.

Birthstone's picture

Birthstone

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Thanks Waterfall

we speak in generalizations often, and see it in our media and our culture, so it gets pervasive.  Maybe some rise to the top and shine, hopefully not only because others are sinking.   Things are tough for jobs, for choosing careers, for getting a chance.  I see in our politics how apathy and disinterest are dragging us down (generalization).  We have to watch both sides, and find some creativity and optimism.

 

Perhaps it will remake or refresh some rigid social structures that we've allowed to get too big for their britches - Senate, church bureaucracy, political parties, corporate ladders, the rat race.  Cross fingers!

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