Never expected any posts here. I was right.

Using google, I found a joke forum on a site about pain, but I don't think the jokes are about pain:

http://www.painworld.zip.com.au/cgi-bin/joke.cgi

Do you suffer from chronic pain?

DrBeyond wrote: "Never expected any posts here. I was right."

EZ Answer: I couldn't think of any. Not really a common joke, eh? I'm curious to know how chronic pain jokes have impacted you. If you don't mind me asking.

EZed: I'm looking for them actually.

I do suffer periods of terrible pain and am usually in some degree
of pain. I am seven years free of large doses of opiate medications
that I was on for nine years after a diagnosis of pancreatic cancer.
(Yes it was a "terminal" diagnosis and it went away, I did receive a
dose of 1000 Rads with 5FU chemotherapy at the time but the role
of this treatment in a remission is denied by physicians.) I cannot
return to narcotics as I erased my brain with them and it took three
agonizing years to get it back, the void was indescribable. To get
off all the narcotics I had to check into a residential medical detox
facility for three months to quote Dante:

"It's very memory gives a shape to fear."

So since then, where I learned the joke about ringing ears, I have
become quite fond of jokes. I still call the place "The Hellwood".
I am not joking when I tell you it felt like a two month car accident.
Over time my pain is diminishing since then, considerably. I try to
manage it with an (IM) injectable anti-inflamatory drug but that
can't be used all the time. Diagnosis: Complex chronic illness /
P.T.S.D. - Vectors: Inflamation/Neurological.

Incredible!

I'm curious to know what you think about treatments like hypnosis or EMDR. What cognitive tools work best in your opinion with chronic pain?

The most important idea to learn about pain is that
pain is not self. This is a Buddhist idea based on selective
detachment. I would say the pain is "over there in a box".
It still pained, but it was less me.

In detox, (The Hellwood), they wanted me "in the present".
This was the last thing I wanted. So I invented a present.
That got me to the psychiatric ward where I could deal better
with my pain. I used humour, Instead of saying I was going
to bed, I would say I was "retiring to the rack". When the
psychiatrist asked me how I was I said I was "burning in hell
and loving it". He concluded after a few weeks I was "seriously
twisted". I always went to the nursing station to ask: "Were you
calling for me?" to make sure I was not sent back to the addiction
division to soon. When they did figure me out and sent me back
to the addiction division I left the hospital. My mistake was taking
my roomates razor blades from him with which he was nightly
cutting his arms. Somebody had to do it and he stopped his
behavior.

I have not tried hypnosis. I fear I might kill the therapist.

Which would you recommend to someone suffering chronic pain: mindfulness training or detachment/dissociation?

EZed: The quick answer has all to do with risks and benefits,
in other words it has to do with the person as an individual.
What works for one may harm another. The idea of looking
at parts of experience as delusional or 'apart' from oneself
can cause a schism in terms of mental health, there is an
'acting crazy' to this that can have side effects as mindfulness
is not easy to understand. Knowledge of what the pain could
be can help as the Buddhist would say the way is "duty in
accordance with nature". This means one's own nature as well
as well as the nature of experience. Clarity of mind is an
attempt to see things as they are, pain is pain without using
that word that burdens it with so much guilt in this society.
I am sure I will post more as I think of it.

Books by Kabat-Zinn are not a bad into to this topic for the
western mind. I read "Wherever You Go There You Are" many
years ago. His book "Full Catastrophe Living" has gotten great
reviews.

EZed: EMDR: This technique I know of theoretically and I
would think it might mitigate the brain's fight or flight
response to pain. It a 'body-to-mind' approach from
a neurological framework. I experienced a few sessions
and found myself to lack this kind of focus. For others
it may be a better gateway than my more 'mind-to-body'
approach. Certainly I see no harm in it and see the idea
of using neurological pathways to mitigate pain and/or
'habituated pain cycles' as holding promise.

DrBeyond wrote: "Books by Kabat-Zinn are not a bad into to this topic for the
western mind. I read "Wherever You Go There You Are" many
years ago. His book "Full Catastrophe Living" has gotten great
reviews."

EZ Answer: Thanks for the titles. I haven't seen these before. Any highlights?

It might take some time to find these again, in the meantime lets
get some context here.

There is an element of "self" missing from the Gospels but shows
up in the Gospel of Thomas referring to something Christ said when
he was confronted about allegiance.

The Gospels quote him: "Give to Ceaser what is Ceaser's and to
God what is God's"

Thomas quotes him: "Give to Ceaser what is Ceaser's and to God
what is God's and to me what is mine."

The Gospel of Thomas gives Christ an ownership of self missing in
the four gospels.

And so a Buddha warrior when under attack by an enemy:
Enemy: Are you not afraid? I can put my sword through your stomach!
Buddha Warrior: As I can wrap my stomach around your sword!

Never forget who you are, no matter where you are.

I like that one!!!

But I bet the guy got gutted anyway.

I imagine he did get gutted but who said Buddhism was practical?
Now in Tibet, he might have come back as a Lama or some strange
interpretations in the U.S. as a toaster. But being practical in that
way would be a step down. More later.

Does "more later" refer to this subject. Or is it poking fun at reincarnation? ;>

True the word "later" is a "tensed" time reference and requires
a later than a "something" to make sense. Reincarnation to me
is like the first few cups of coffee in the morning and then the
realization that boredom is what drives the will. There could be
reincarnation, but I hope not. I do believe in recycling for sure
but I am not sure that is as deep, unless you can come back as a
toaster or a refrigerator for example.

I have learned a few things about pain.
First, I can't feel pain when I am really angry - but this is a luxury I can't afford.
I also can't feel pain in an emergency - this is dangerous, but handy
I can't feel pain when I am comforting another.
The Lamaze technique works.
Most drugs (and alcohol) don't dull the pain. They dull the mind that feels the pain.

The best way for me to handle pain is to take a genuine interest in others. Learn to encapsulate your pain and move beyond it.

So true what you say Judds, especially about drugs where the
price is your mind. There are extremes and I was there for a number
of years, so I would never judge. What you say about otherness is
most important and when I speak of self I include others as part of
this journey, especially trying to be with and for others. By doing this
you forget yourself, especially much about yourself that is false.
I have found more help in trying to help others than in being helped.
Thanks for posting.

drbeyond This man went to see his accountant about his personal income tax. the accountant told him that he had some serious ill gotten gains in his tax file. The man aghast said "What do you mean "Ill gotten gains?" I am a doctor remember?

Hi Sylviac, that is a good joke.

I should clarify that from a Buddhist perspective pain or
suffering is not self, but self is not self either. It helps if
you clap your hands to "jolt" the moment to get this one.
If you do not get it, then you have got it. See how simple
that is?