Sorry, but I think that a woman has absolute control over her body. There are many reasons an unwanted pregnancy may have happened such as rape, incest, poor birth control. Regardless, if a woman does not feel ready or able to continue with the pregnancy it should be her decision and hers alone.

"There is a link between cancer and abortion, between depression/suicide and abortion."

Excuse me? Are you actually kidding here? If the faith of your convictions wasn't enough why did you have to throw in some ridiculous, vague statistic like that? A link between cancer and abortion? Last I checked there was a link between cancer and pretty much everything. And depression and suicide can be caused by any number of things as well.

What a sick post barramedic has given us. What a great sorrow God endures when the innocent are massacred daily. I feel so sorry for our heavenly Father as he looks down on his creation and sees his beautiful innocent children killed for ridiculous reasons. Abortion is a SIN! And a very grave one at that. Now I know nothing about abortions linked to suicides, etc. But I can tell you this - many women feel extreme guilt and depression afterwards. Some find it very difficult to continue living afterwards. She needs God, just a sinner such as myself needs God.
Let me lay this down:

Pro Choice - screw that. How about Pro Life.

What an evil thought to think that a women should have the right to MURDER a baby that cannot even defend itself.

"My birth control didn't work I'm too young for this " - TOO BAD! There is always a consequence for one's actions. You go sleeping around that's your prerogative but why should the baby suffer for that choice of yours. why should the innocent die...not even give them a chance to live.

"I can't take care of a child right now" - Does anyone have any idea how many families are trying to adopt children. There is a huge demand for that. Tough it out - be strong and then give it up for adoption if need be.

"I was raped/involved in incest I could NEVER tell my child that I have no idea who his father is/his father is related to me" - So because someone did a horrible thing to you the tiny INNOCENT baby inside must pay the price. That doesn't seem fair to me. "I couldn't tell the child that he was born of rape" - hey doesn't that child deserve a chance to be told that to become strong because of it have a chance to LIVE.

I'll tell you who gets abortions - cowards. Women who are too afraid to take responsibility for there actions and live up to them and the result dear reader : God weeps as another baby is murdered!

A woman (or man for that matter) has absolute control over their body? Really? Who enables you to take every breathe? God sustains you. You can't even stop yourself from winking. You would not be able to move a muscle if God did not allow it. The child growing in a woman's womb breathes according to the will of God the Father. God alone has the authority to take that child back to Himself. No person has the right to kill an unborn child.

again sorry but I have to respectfully disagree. Your body is controlled by your brain. And as far as not being able to control a wink, a lot of people cannot wink at all because a missing gene. The same reason some people can role their tongues into an tube shape and others cannot. It is genetics passed through many generations.

let me correct my previous post. People who cannot wink are not missing a gene, but it is a genetic ability like the tongue thing. My husband can roll his tongue, but I cannot, therefore my 2 boys are unable to because they don't have that gene from both parents.

When a woman aborts her child, she kills a part of herself. She remains a mother, but a mother of dead child. Many women never forget their mistake(s) and suffer horribly and mourn as a result of taking human life. There is help available for women who have had abortions and suffer from depression/suicidal tendencies. God loves you and wants to heal your brokeness. Reach out to Him, give Him all of your pain and anger and let Him heal you from within. May God bring you healing.

Sorry to rain on your parades , but isn't the christian thing to do not to condemn women who have abortions? I'll be honest and say I don't agree with it, and believe that it is wrong to take the life of a child, unborn or not because of the mistakes of the mother or because of rape/incest. The child could be adopted if the mother can not or does not want to care for it. But it is not for us to condemn those who have abortions and call them cowards. We are all humans, and make mistakes, especially when we are afraid. The christian thing to do is accept what the woman decides, even though it may be against our faith, and make sure they have the recources to have the abortion safely, and to console them afterwards if they suffer from guilt. In the meantime, we can still fight for the lives of unborn children in the courts and in the government. Some of uou may believe, and say you are a christian, but your posts don't contain very christian words. Jesus said to love your enemies (or people that do things against what you belive) no matter what they do, and befriend them.

PrazGod, the assertion that there is a link between abortion and cancer is a viscious tactic used by anti-choice religious fanatics to frighten women. Specifically, they said that abortion increased the likelihood of breast cancer by 80%. Every respectable authority on the subject has rejected any linkage between abortion and breast cancer. You do yourself an injury in perpetuating the lie.

As to the linkage between abortion and depression that may or may not lead to suicide, it is people like you and Josaphat who create the hateful atmosphere within which women are made to feel guilt and shame. In those parts of the world where there is no social stigma attached to abortion - East Asia, for example - there is no depression related to it. If you two and your ilk were to stop victimizing women, there would be no abortion-related depression or suicide. Save the lives of some of our women and shut up already.

You two don't get to say at what point a foetus becomes a person. You don't speak for God. And you don't get to tell women what they can or cannot do with their bodies. Butt out.

Thanks for the support Rod. Great Post

I believe it is the woman's choice. Plain and simple. Pro lifers rant and rave but I don't see them in line waiting to adopt many of these unwanted babies and they certainly don't sound very "Christian" to me either!

pro-choice = pro-life. those who call themselves part of the pro-life movement are really anti-choice & do not respect the right of a woman to control what happens to her body. here is an excerpt from an essay about the fetus focus fallacy.

Anti-choicers insist that the key question in the abortion debate is whether a fetus is a person or not. If so, abortion is murder, they say, and therefore obviously immoral and illegal. That is not the key question at all, of course - anti-choicers are committing the "fetus focus fallacy." The practice of abortion is unrelated to the status of the fetus - it hinges totally on the aspirations and needs of women. Women have abortions regardless of the law, regardless of the risk to their lives or health, regardless of the morality of abortion, and regardless of what the fetus may or may not be. On average, abortion rates do not differ substantially between countries where it's legal and countries where it's illegal.

you can read more at: http://www.prochoiceactionnetwork-canada.org/articles/fetus-focus-fallac...

Pray for the conversion of abortionists. Pray for the conversion of those who promote abortion - the pro-abortionists. Pray for the healing of women who have had abortions or have died from them. Pray for all to give their lives to the Lord Jesus Christ, who died for them and shed His most precious Blood on the cross for the forgiveness of their sins -so that they might have eternal life. You see abortion isn't just about killing the unborn. Its also about spiritual death/eternal death. Does everyone want eternal life?

Before I formed you in the womb I knew You.
Jeremiah 1:5

Thus says the Lord who made you and formed you from the womb,
who will help you.
Isaiah 44:2

For you formed my inward parts;
You covered me in my mothers womb.
I will praise you, for I am fearfully and wonderfully made.
Psalm 139:14-15

Before a female can even know she is prgenant, the fetuses heart is beating, making abortion murder. Abortion at any stage of development is murder. Abortion is another example of how sinnful and barbaric our society has become. How dare anyone take the life of an unborn yet still living baby. How dare you tell God that He made a mistake by killing one of His creations. HOW DARE YOU.

So ...if a baby isn't a part of a womans body then it's OK if she drinks and smokes as much as she wants right?

Do me a favour....get some education. Most women have abortions when the baby is nothing more than an unfeeling collection of cells.

whyper. What does a christian sound like. That is quite a blanket statement. And how do you know that these pro-lifers a not standing in line to adopt. If it is not the pro lifers then who is it? I can safeley assume (yes I know what that does) it isn't the woman who just had an innocent life ripped out of her. Nor is it the Doctor who just performed the barbaric act. If I am wrong please let me know.

shame on you...I'm honestly really really sick of your posts and how you are trying to dominate these blogs. It is disgusting that you are trying to scare people while judging them so harshly. whatever happened to christian love??? As far as I'm concerned the people that cast the most judgement are the ones that will be most judged when their time comes.

To RodMallet. I highly dought that telling people who are passionate about pro life to shut up is the angle you want to take. The issue is not wether the life inside the woman's womb is a person, but rather is it alive. 1)Since two living things come together at conception I believe yes that life begins at conception. 2) More inportantly, God formed that life in the womb. God does not make mistakes. We have no business ripping that life out.
Obviously if the mothers life is at serious risk then yes, life saving messures must be taken. But these are very few and far between.
And oh yes. God speaks for God. Read His Book. There you will find the truth.
God really does not like abortion.
God Bless

Daisy13. Shame on who? If you are refering to imajesusfreak, I have only posted a few replies. I am judging no one. I am simply stating a truth. Abortion is murder. what is wrong with carying the baby to term and then giving it up for adoption. At least now this baby has a chance to grow up and live a full life, not be ripped from their mothers womb and tossed in the garbage. Life begins at conception. Living things (sperm, egg) come togther to start the reaction of dividing cells. Dead things can't make live things. God then sustains this life. Don't belive me? Just read the Bible and you will see the truth. There is no act of judgement on my part, only speaking the truth. Judgement is reserved for God alone. And when I speak the truth I do speak with Christian Love.
Why are people so quick to chose death for these innocent lives when life is such a better option.

I didn't realize I didn't specify....I very much mean shame on PrazGod. If you want my opinion please refer to the other abortion blog that PrazGod has posted.

I too feel that abortion is overused and that adoption is underused but I will not judge those who feel it is their only choice at the moment. I have never been raped nor was I pregnant at 14 and kicked out of the house. I haven't walked in their shoes.

I'm refering to PrazGod's way of spouting off quotes and misleading statistics in such a harsh, one-minded judgemental manner. I apologize if I offended you.

What does a Christian "sound" like? Christ. That simple.

Look to your books. This is not called "Bibleism" is it called Christianity.

Christ said FORGIVE AS I FORGIVE YOU
That's what a Christian "sounds" like.

If you want to follow a book compiled by a group of long dead men who had a civilization to run, and wanted it run their way, based on their interpretations and biases; then by all means, keep reading and keep judging.
If you wish to be a follower of Christ, follow; do not presume to lead.

"Anti-Choicers", every "Pro-Choice" voice has forgiven your hateful rampages and teated you with respect that you may not deserve. They know it is not their place to decide if you deserve it or not, they are Christians and following Christ's word is their duty.

JesusFreak... the language you choose is harmful and hateful... "ripped", "barbaric act"? You show your lack of forgiveness by your choice of words. And do not make the mistake of believing there is no harm in words. You so strongly believe there is harm in the chioces we make. Make a different choice... stop being a Jesus "Freak" and start being one of his followers!

Blessings to ALL.
~And They Will Know We Are Christians By Our Love~

amen

Please Note: As an amendment to my post... I do not place those who respectfully state their views in the "Anti-Choicer" category. If you self-identify as "Pro-Life" and you show care and love for those who have made hard choices in their lives... then you are demonstrating that you are truly "Pro-Life" - i.e.: all life. This discussion (any discussion) should never include hate, only love and compassion. Call yourselves what you will, my friends, but never stray into judging your neighbor.

~And They Will Know We Are Christians By Our Love~

ByOurLove. Who ever said that we are not forgiving. I have never once in any post judged or spoke an unforgiving word. I have only spoken the truth. It comes as no suprise though that when confronted with the truth, some people become very defensive. If the words I chose to discribe abortion offend you I truly am sorry. But please then tell me which words I should use for the choice to pick death over life. Have you seen the results of an abortion? I have and "ripped" and "barbaric act" seem to be an understatement. The truth of the matter is that when someone disagrees with anothers opinion they labled as "judging" and it is usually the Christian that is being labled. But when a Christian states an opinion they are "judging others", and "Intolerant". And I dare say that being labled as such is just as judgmental and intolerant. I am not intolerant, the truth is intolerant. God's word is truth. You know nothing about me ByOurLove. I am a follower of Jesus. He is my Lord and Savior. By you suggesting that I am not, would that make you judgemental or just intolerant?
I have really enjoyed this conversation. Thank you. And i am not being sacastic. Much Love and God Bless.

What a sad point to come to in a civilization, when people freely defend the taking of life, when it all becomes so...political.

Woman hotly say "it's my body, I decide"...as if that's the end of it. If they are so big on deciding, you have to wonder why didn't they decide (here of course I refer to cases of pregnancy not involving rape) before getting pregnant, to either abstain, or use birth control, or make any one of many other decisions which would have led them down some other path than the one that resulted in them becoming pregnant.

You have to wonder if many of these women do later regret it. Perhaps they had an abortion in their earlier less thoughtful days, because society gave them that option and they took it; but in later years, with children of their own, or on the other side of it perhaps later unable to have children for whatever reason, do they then...

...wonder? Reflect? on what's been missed, never to be known? The road not taken?

Do they wonder what long line that life-to-be would have traced? Who that human would have been? How that life would have woven into the fabric of the life of this Earth and changed it? What joy that life would have given to itself, to others, to the mother...to God?

All ended in a moment, but ended forever...it's very sad really, the utter waste.

All those millions of beautiful children, gone forever from the life of this earth. I hope there truly is an eternal being named Jesus behind our universe, and that he is cradling those unwanted souls right now; the mothers didn't cradle them, and lost their chance to do so... many of them must weep hidden tears, whether or not they'll admit it.

Instead of being united together here in this life, these unwanted ones and their mothers are forever separated, never to join hands in love.

Sad.

JesusFreak,

Try out the word "removed," see what you think of that... it is as true, and neutral. Do not confuse discussion with namecalling. You have said "murderer" and "barbaric" and call that stating facts. I have not called you anything. That is the difference between judging and discussing. I don't judge you, I don't even know you. I can only go by your words; and your words are judgemental.

Thank you JesusFreak, this has been enlightening. I doubt I will be on this site again. But if I am and I see a return comment from you, I will do my best to respond.

Blessings.
~And... well, you know~

Science has proven that the baby is not part of the woman's body, it is a separate being within her body and no, she shouldn't have a right to kill the baby. There is nothing Godly in that.

Atheisto, you have a very narrow view of life. Science fortunately, has proven you wrong and will continue to prove that this is just another stage in the life of being human. From conception til natural death.

You've just proven that if you're correct about when they commit their abortion, they are using it as birth control. That's disgusting.

ByOurLove,

I really hope you come back to this site, because the site needs people like you in order to offer different perspectives. Perhaps if we didn't fuel the extremists on this site, by giving them the attention the seem to thrive on(even though their goal of trying to sway our opinion is never going to work when they repeat the same quotes over and over and over). Maybe when we ignore them they will go away.

Hopefully seeing you back in some other message board!

Cheers!

ByOurLove, you seem to advocate abortion and when confronted, you leave. Stating that abortion is wrong is not judgmental, its a fact. Just like stating that stealing is wrong, is that considered judgmental? If I rape children, is it judgmental to say that its barbaric? Is it judgmental to say that its wrong to do such a thing? Not even in the slightest, and its painfully obvious that you hold no love for those people who would protect life rather than killing it. I feel very sorry for you. Being pro-life is the only way. Being pro-abortion is no way for the child.

Jesus Freak, you've said nothing wrong, its obvious that the poster doesn't want to hear a contrary opinion, and like many of her ilk, don't care to listen to pro-lifers and label us extremists. What love do they have when they kill a baby? She obviously does not know the Word of God otherwise she would not advocate such a barbaric act, although I am not surprised at seeing this on a United Church website.

It is interesting to me that you get around admitting that you are being judgemental just by saying "I speak the truth". How is it that people think that they can get away with saying horrible things by labelling it as "truth" and "honesty". Pathetic I say.

Sorry, I just can't get past the "Cancer/Abortion" deal. Honestly, if you want people to take your arguments and views seriously, get proper facts first. Thats just udderly ridiculous!

Saying what horrible things? That killing life is barbaric??? Wonder what you would say when Hitler was around and supported these things. Its truth, that's why you're offended when you see pictures of aborted babies and so forth.

There has been proven to be links between both. Deal with it. At the least, it should be checked out and studied, although people don't want to do that to upset the pro-aborts out there. I'm not surprised the United Church would be in support of this.

Now, after doing some more research, I learned that there is a fairly large base of people rallying for legislation to let the cancer/abortion connection be known.

Now, even though there have been many studies, every one of them have been shown as inconclusive. For example:

"[...]Researchers studied 1.5 million Danish women born between April 1935 and March 1978. Instead of depending on the women's answers, the scientists turned to Denmark's national abortion and breast cancer registries. They found no difference in breast cancer risk between women who'd had an abortion and those who hadn't."

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2001-02-28-abortion-link.htm

"A study of just under 4,000 women by doctors at Sweden's Karolinska Institute found no link between terminations and the disease.

Some studies have suggested abortions could increase the risk of cancer, but many experts say the evidence is weak."

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/3431817.stm

This is the time when you ask yourself, "who should I trust in?" Anti-abortion propaghanda? Or reputable reports and scientific studies?

Just for the record, I have no definite opinion on the topic of abortion, it is just that when the primary force of an argument is based on inconclusive facts, well... thats an argument from ignorance. (Im not saying that anyone here is ignorant, but the word "facts" gets spewed around here and it seems to have lost all meaning)

ABC. Amen, and thank you. This thread has struck a nerve as my wife and I are having trouble conceiving. We used to belong to the Anglican Church were I was a Youth Pastor. A girl walked in one day who was pregnant. I was told that I had to give her all of her options-including abortion. This sickend me and my wife. I am so glad that God led us out of the Anglican Church and brought us to a solid Christ centered Bible believing Church. It is so clear that abortion is murder and a barbaric act (ByOurLove, I make no apologies) that I can hardley comprehend it. So it seems that Christians such as ourselves ABC and PrazGod, because we speak the truth, will be the targets for hostile attitudes towards our faith.

I cannot help but respond to some of the comments made either through arrogance or ignorance. ABC, Prazgod and ImaJesusfreak all make the same mistake either accidently or intentionally; they confuse belief with truth, conviction with fact. You may believe as fervently as you can in something but that doesn't make it fact or truth. To say you speak the truth is extremely arrogant when in fact you are speaking from a position of strong conviction only. It is also an attempt to put down others opinions as false even though those opinions may come from as strong a conviction as yours. Have your opinions by all means but please don't insult us by telling us that you are the one and only bearers of truth. And please don't give me quotes from the Bible to substantiate your 'truths' because the Pharisees used that technique too with the laws of their day and we all know how Jesus felt about that.

Well, for whatever it matters, I happen to be pro-choice. This does not mean I'm pro-abortion, however, so don't get me wrong. I understand that whether or not it's legal there are women out there who are going to abort their children, either by something like a coat hanger, or by drinking and smoking. Unfortunatly that is not only dangerous to the mother it is dangerous in that the baby may not be removed, thus being born deformed in either mind or body.
By making it legal the government is able to put them restrictions (Such as how old the fetus can be before it's too late for an abortion) and it can be preformed safely for the mother.
By having someone like a Pastor inform a pregnant girl on abortion she is now less likely to feel ashamed of her pregnancy, and by her knowing that such options are availible she's more likely to go to the church for help (Not necessarily looking for info on abortion but for unbiased info in general)
I don't really think Rape is a good reason to have an abortion though I'm not about to judge someone who does, but then again, I'm not going to condemn anyone for having/agree with/preforming an abortion.
That is not to say I would never get an abortion, I do believe there are cases where it is the right thing to do, and I say that because I'm not ignorant enough about the world to think that death is the worse thing that can happen to someone.

Thankyou "oldfeller" for putting what I feel into words. I also believe that just because it is a conviction or a belief that does not make it an absolute truth. Not to mention ABC, PrazGod, and ImaJesusfreak you might be able to get your point across better and be listened to more if you learned to state your opinion in a manner that was less hostile and judgemental.

Daisy - God bless you

Well thats a nicer approach. Doesn't everyone feel better now?

Seriously though, Daisy has a pretty decent point. Everyone just needs to take a gander at both sides of the argument. Its alright to take a certain side, but really, don't press your opinion on others using skewed facts and inaccurate information. This goes for people on both "sides". And please, everyone get a little less hostile about things. I know that people can get passionate about things they believe in, but they also need to understand that other people may not think the same way. Its a good thing that people are diverse enough to be able to make desicions about things which mean alot to them, be it "pro/against", "black/white", whatever.

"Its a good thing that people are diverse enough to be able to make desicions"

It's hard sometimes to remember that the point of discussion is to further knowledge and understanding, not convince the other person of your beliefs. I know it's something I forget all the time. Good thing there are so many people on this site willing to remind us :)

Please let me know how I am being judgemental. Are you not being judgemental by saying that I am judgemental. This word getts tossed around so much that i am sure it feels that it is being judged. And don't think that I can't feel your hostility. People like myself (imajesusfreak) PrazGod and ABC have been labled extemists on this site. That, I dare say is a false allegation. All we are doing is stating what our beliefs are. We believe that abortion is wrong. Abortion kills an innocent living human being. How is that being judgemental. There is a better option than death for these innocent lives. That is life. Carry the baby to term then give it up for adoption. If the baby is a result of rape or incest, it is not the baby's fault. Unplanned pregnancy? Then they should have waited untill they got married. Don't kill and innocent life because of lust. That kind of smacks of pride. It sill perplexes me that people would still chose to abort an innocent human life when other options are available such as giving birth then adoption.
And oh yes and OldFeller. Please do not compare me to the Pharisees. I am no such thing and i feel judged.

Okay I will drop the judgemental word.....but I do think that you are all coming across as maybe a little hostile and less than open to others opinions. Did you not see the post that made the point that just because you believe your opinions whole heartedly that it is your truth not necessarily someone elses truth and beliefs. I know that you think that you have the only right way of going about things but can't you be open to not being 100% right?? All the extremests believe that they are the only ones that are right. I'm willing to take my chances that in the long run my beliefs might not be the right ones but they are the ones that are right for me and the ones that I'm comfortable living my life with. I feel that your are shoving your opinion in a hostile manner and not listening to other possibilities. It doesn't lessen your faith or your beliefs to be open to others opinions.

OldFeller, if killing a baby is considered alright by you, you obviously miss the truth about abortion. Abortion should have no place in a civilized society.

Interesting that OldFeller claims to have the truth about truth of which he says no one can have.

But you would say that I am wrong or not open minded because I don't agree with you. I say abortion is wrong. You say that it is the woman's right. So buy you not agreeing with me does that not make you wrong. Are you not applying the same standards to me that you say I am applying to you. Is that not a double standard? Please understand that I am not trying to be hostile. Just passionate.

ABC Stated: "OldFeller, if killing a baby is considered alright by you, you obviously miss the truth about abortion."

ABC, what TRUTH? There is no TRUTH, only your opinion! Passionate as you may be, that does not make it a truth. Please learn to distinguish between the two. This is what is frusturating.