Welcome back Pilgrim and no loss of status here.

You've chosen to arrive back on a special day for Canadians.

Today is groundhog day!

Pilgrims, I am sorry to hear just how terribly you have been suffering over the past couple of months. I am glad to hear that you went to Hughie's funeral - hopefully that brought some closure to you. As far as I'm concerned - you certainly have not lost your status as an intelligent and witty woman - your wit and wisdom are a part of what makes you human (as is your depression). It sounds like your visits with Paula have been very helpful and I hope that someday soon you'll be able to take Mrs. Danvers by the hand and lead her back to that attic.

Mental illness may still indeed be a taboo subject but, since I was diagnosed with depression about 5 years ago, I've noticed more and more people (both public figures and friends) have been willing to open up about their own battles with it.

Here is a prayer that I came up with that I like to repeat to myself when I am having a tough time. I pray that it will help you too (feel free, of course to change the words as you feel fit).

"Lord, grant me the strength and serenity to make it through this day. Amen"

Pilgrims, thanks for coming here to share what you've been going through.  I agree with somegal, you haven't lost your status here and your sharing is just adding to all the wisdom that you've shared in the past.

You probably missed another topic where I offered to go on a leisurely walk with you. The offer is still open, along with a hug (and I hear yours are legendary)!  ((((Pilgrims))))

Thanks for sharing Pilgrims. Good to see you here again. :)

I am glad to see you back, Pilgrim. I am well versed in clinical depression so I know what you are experiencing.  Hugs to you m'dear.

Pilgrims - it took a lot of courage to come on here and write what you have written.  I was worried about you.  Now, at least, feel we have established contact again.  You matter - you matter a great deal to those of us who have met you briefly and to those who only know you through your wit and wisdom.  Keep the door open as much as you are able. 

Thank you for explaining a bit of what you are going through.  I read once a writer who experienced periods of clinical depression adopted a mantra:  "This too will pass."    I've used it myself when things got bad.

So many of us know someone close to us suffering from depression.  Sometimes it is hard to understand.   I believe in some cases losing all interest in life, in things you used to enjoy doing, and just in doing the normal things like preparing a meal or taking a bath becomes a chore to be pushed to do, or is neglected.  I've known people to toss their mail aside in a pile on a corner shelf, let it pile up, appointments missed, bills not paid.   My friend's family lost their home when the husband completely ignored the notices that his mortgage wasn't being paid and threats of eviction until the day he was out on the street, his wife asking 'how did this happen?'     Sometimes for the people on the outside it is so hard to understand that we find relief by laughing - and that drive away the devils that are whispering 'It could be you."   And its hit my family - close to home.

Thank you for explaining from the inside.  Thank you for taking the effort to come back to us. 

Please, take care.  Take your medicine as directed.  See Paula and follow her advice.    

((((((((Pilgrim))))))))

Loss of status? Hell No! You GOT your status in large part by being open, honest, vulnerable... and having a fantastic wit.

Just naming "her" Mrs. Danvers (from the novel Rebecca) in a way shows that wit even in the darkest of times.

Also, for someone who is a novel character buff (thus StephenGordon) it strikes a chord.

I knew the black dog was circling or licking. I also know that depression means retreat. My experience with my mom means I make room for it, unless I see danger signs. It is part of trusting her to manage her illness. She knows I am there. I hope you also knew that I was.

For me, an introvert, (really I am) I know the health value of  "me time". Mental health is physical health. So, I get needing time to recharge, process...

An extrovert will socialize and if overstressed they rant, rave...

An introvert will retreat and if overstressed will reduce what stresses... including people. They withdraw. People who care will learn to understand. (It can look like depression and many introverts have been made feel they are not "normal")

So, I knew you would be back when you were ready and hopefully you knew your friends were there to talk, if you wanted.... just as you have been there when I have taken introvert stress breaks.

Again, loss of status? No way!!!!

Hi Pilgrims. 

So glad you are back again.  I wondered at your absence but expected there were some issues in your life.  Being a private person myself I didn't wish to intrude.  You are amazing in that you can face your problems and deal with them so honestly.  When you can do that, you grow in stature and gain respect and admiration.

My mother suffered from undiagnosed Bipolar Disorder for years.  Finally a discerning Dr. figured it out when she was in her 70's and prescribed meds which helped.  We saw her pain and depression from the outside and it was pretty rough but I can't imagine the range of emotions she experienced on the inside and couldn't articluate to help us understand.  I do think her circumstances helped to make us (my sister, 3 brothers and father) more compassionate people.  Our father never gave up on her, even as he was most often the target of verbal abuse, and he loved her unconditionally.

After my husband died, I was on anti-depressants for 3 years, but it was more like 5 years before I actually began to overcome the "numbness" and feel something again.   A good counsellor helped me to find myself and eventually get off the meds.

My situation, fortunately, was temporary.  Yours is something that is ongoing and certain situations will cause stress and a relapse.  Hopefully the support you find here will help you through those troubling times.

Please know that you are loved and respected....keeping you close in thoughts and prayers.   Gek

Pilgrims Progress - you have been missed these past days . . . glad to "see" you!  Sorry to hear you have not been well.  Depression has been draining  your heart, mind, body, and spirit - the good news is you are seeking help and healing, and taking treatment.

Right now Mrs. Danvers is standing between you and the light, causing you to be shadowed in darkness . . . I sincerely hope that Mrs. Danvers gets out of the way and goes home soon . . . and that once again the light will shine brightly on your person.

This day I wish you an abundance of Hope, Peace, Joy, Love!

is with you.

I am very sorry to hear you are suffering like this, Pilgrim. Know that many of us including me have been there. I have been on full strength antidepressants since the mid-eighties.

I can relate to what Seeler says about mail piling up, although I try not to let it get to the eviction stage! I also know about wanting to withdraw, not see anyone, not even get out of bed.

I can only say I send my best wishes for you to feel better soon.
Big virtual hug.

Ah Pilgrims ... good to hear from you again.  And no worries re loss of status with me.  I'm glad to see that you went to Hughie's funeral - that was important and courageous, and probably undeniably difficulty & painful.  Good to hear you've reconnected with Paula & she's her usual attentive self ... you will dig yourself out of this yet again my friend. 

And yet, even in your depressed state, you've written to eloquently about this experience.  It is truly a gift that you have. 

Out Out Damned Mrs. Danvers I say!!   Hugs to you Pilgrims.

Welcome back! It is good to see you here.

One of the things I believe about the challenegs I face, is that often the good, is often a result of the bad. Having PDD NOS results in me having certain weaknesses and suffering, but at the same time, it gives me certain abilities that bring me and my friends a certain strength and  joy. 

So maybe your history of struggling with depression, is somehow linked to your wisdom and humour. I have noticed that historically some of the deepest thinkers, and greatest leaders have suffered from depression. 

Hi PP:

You are not alone. I have struggled with clinical depression in the early eighties. The diagnosis then was "manic-depression," and I was perscribed Lithium, but I didn't like it, so I tried meditation instead. It worked! Although I still experience mood swings, I do not think myself into depression any more.

For the past five years, my wife has been plagued by anxiety and depression. She has been on various medications, and is now trying to wean herself off perscription drugs, without success, so far. But she is, at long last, following my advice and seriously trying meditation. So far it has not alleviated her depression, but she feels a bit better and more hopeful.

From my experience, depression is a sickness of sick thinking. The chemical imbalance in the brain, which is observable and measurable and which medication is trying to correct, is, in my opinion, not the cause but the effect of sick thinking. Unless we address and solve the problem were it arises—in the thinking mind—we won't get rid of depression.

But this is only my personal observation of my personal experience. From my experience, discovering and activating the creator within, and thinking creatively and well, got me out of clinical depression and keeps me out.

The tendency for depression may be inherited (I inherited mine from my mother), but the actual illness (sick thinking) is a personal choice. I know this sounds harsh, like blaming the victim, but this is not my intent. On the contrary, I think it empowers the victim. If the afflicted has the choice to slip into depression, then s/he also has the choice to slip out of it.

I'm sorry if this sounds harsh, it's just my two-bit wisdom.

Be assured of my sympathy, empathy, and love.

weird...

i have found my depression has gotten really wild lately too...

could it be something on wondercafe???

mine too, really...then I get all heavy and write  heavy and long posts, which pulls others down too probably..maybe it's me? There has been quite a bit of negativity and/ or depressive posts on here lately (my posts not withstanding...but others also). 

I don't think it's a choice. We don't necessarily slip into it. Sometimes it hits like a ton of bricks. It's physical as well, has physical symptoms...more tiredness and/ or insomnia, a feeling of heaviness, slowness and disinterest in things you normally enjoy (and mine is often accompanied by anxiety). I don't believe that's a choice. We can make choices that help alleviate it, and we can and should seek help to overcome it's effects...there are lots of ways to help with it...but I don't believe one chooses to have depression. My doctor once told me that it's the result of coping in a pretty sick and stressful world. I don't think we can say it's the individual's fault. There are just people who are more sensitive to it than others..and sensitivity is a good thing...it means we care.

I think for we who live in the northern hemisphere, it's sometimes just WINTER  ... I think we're meant to be hibernating, and our current life demands don't permit it. 

 I certainly notice a change in my own mood, energy level, outlook etc.  The dreariness of the weather, lack of sunshine (try adding some extra Vitamin D), increased challenge to get outdoors, stuffy/poor inside air quality, the usual rounds of colds & flu's that make us feel crappy & vulnerable  ...  I think it adds up.  But I do hold out hope that spring is on its way, with all its refreshing changes.

And I certainly notice similar changes in my patients who have a history of clinical depression - it can be a tough time. 

Or maybe you're right sighsnootles!  Maybe it is the cafe! 

No, depression is not the individual's fault.

Depression is not a choice. Only what we think about it is.

Depression, like all of our emotions, naturally comes and goes. But if we re-enforce it with our thinking, then we make it persist.

From my own experience with depression, the way to prevent onself from thinking (and sinking :-) deeper and deeper into depression is to awaken and activate the creator within.

Dear Pilgrim,

So glad to see you back, and know why I haven't heard from you, relieved in a way that you weren't avoiding me! : )  Glad to hear Mrs Danvers is on her way out. Like Somegal said, and Arminius also meant, take her by the hand and put her back in her place! Do what you need, to let the sunshine back in again.

You've certainly not lost any status with me either. I already knew you had depression. Plus I have the wonderful memory of your warm hugs, and I send you back that memory too. : )  Hugs again Pilgrim! You are a special person. I defend you with my sword!

I'm sorry if anything I've said has been depressing. I only seek to explore and think, and try to understand, sort myself out, express my views and be honest. And I may not always know the right thing to say. Yeah, winter is a bummer. But the sunshine is good for us!

Here Comes the Sun:

Arminius

Thank you so much for your support.

When contact with folks in "real" life is painful, it's reassuring to know that I can still connect with my Canadian friends...........

For the first time in a month I made it to church yesterday. I was still teary - and all folks did was come up and give me a hug. (I clearly have some way to go if I can't even handle folks being nice to me.)

Off to see Paula tomorrow - where once again we'll work together at getting "me" back........

As a daily discipline I'm trying to correct some faulty thinking and feeling - and I find the following video helpful in that regard.

My thanks to LB for bringing to my attention the speaker, Dr. Brene Brown.

Does what she says ring bells for you?

Pilgrims, glad to hear that you're on track to getting better.  It sounds like church was good for you.  Do you think you'll make it this Sunday as well?  I hope you have a great session with Paula!

I just feel the need to say that "faulty thinking" (I hate that phrase but know of no other) can exist related to clinical depression or just in general.

You can either/or think... success/failure, gorgeous/hideous, smart/stupid, funny/boring...
 

You can generalize. You can personalize everything. You can blow things out of proportion. You can draw conclusions and inferences. You can think everything is rejection....

That does not mean everyone doing so is clinically depressed.

It also does not mean that the clinically depressed do such things.

Some people with "faulty thinking" will benefit from self-help. Others, plain and simple, will need trained outside help.  Likewise, some with depression manage with and others without therapy, medication...

One person who manages their diabetes with diet or exercise should not think that people who need oral pills or insulin should be able to do what they did or that all diabetics can come off insulin.... It is best to let that to the patient and their doctor. Mental illness is the same, to me, as diabetes.

PilgrimsProgress, you know yourself better than any of us. You have had this a while and know it like anyone knows a dreaded whiskered aunt with no teeth and who reeks of stale cigarettes who clutches you and holds you close, slobbering on you.

If you are troubled, I am listening and I am in turn troubled. I have no advice, but to tell you to follow the course that has worked in the past. Also, be open to something else if the methods of the past do not seem to be helping.

Know you are loved.

Hi Stevie:

I do, of course, agree.

I neglected to mention in my post that "faulty thinking" can also exist outside of depression, and that there can be depression without "faulty thinking."

Thank you for your wise words.

One day at a time, Pilgrims Progress .  May this day be a day where even the smallest gain in becoming healthier is achieved and made known to you.

Peace be with you . . .

Pilgrims - it's good to see you in here my friend. I'm glad you made it to church this week - and it sounds like your friends were very happy to see you. From the tone of your posts, it sounds like Mrs Danvers is closer to being back in the attic.

Pilgrim's Progress.....aka PP.....

Thankful you are here.

Thankful you are getting the assistance you require, and were able to seek it out.

You are a wise woman and I look forward to your full participation however it manifests.  ...and even your itty-bitty participation, for you bring joy as well as "hmmm's" to my life.

peace to you this day

Pilgrim's Progress,

i love your wit, openness & sense of humour -- you're one of those here who do a good job of mitigating when we WCers get too numbskullish

for you

and the black dog has been with me again -- last Christmas was the 1st Christmas in a bit that I wasn't depressed

as my father says "i muddle through"

Pilgrims Progress, thank you for sharing that video... it was inspiring and will shape my day today.

Do you know that it is in your company that I have had my finest thoughts?
      Muriel Barbery, The Elegance of the Hedgehog

I'm thinking of you Pilgrim's Progress. I've had to help someone through dealing with depression and they did come through. I'm sure you can do the same.

Mendalla

Gosh Pilgrims, I think this is not so unusual.  I've certainly had good friends look me straight in the eye & say firmly - "don't you dare hug me or be nice to me or I'll dissolve into tears right here & now!"    I'm glad your friends were hugging you and holding you tight, tears & all.   If we can't cry at church among friends, well, where can we safely do so?

Thanks for the video.  Yes - it resonates with me, especially today.  I had an uncharacteristically  LOUSY, STRESSFUL day today at work & got myself all in a turmoil over having to do something where I felt out of my depth, vulnerable, and not as good as I'd like to be at what I needed to do.  I was so stuck & frustrated with myself for being so.   I actually felt very relieved to get my dental appointment at the end of the day - to lie down & not have to do or think about anything!!  And generally the dentist is not high up on my list of fun/relaxing stuff to do!   But today it was a good time to decompress, and just surrender.  And so watching the video tonight ... yes, resonates for sure - thank you.

I was having a rough time while at a public event.  An acquaintance seemed to notice, and I told her:   "It's this darn tremor in my arm.  It's driving me crazy."   She patted the arm and said, "I know" and I could tell from her voice that she really did.  I had to turn my head and walk away to keep from breaking down and telling her how worried I was.

(It doesn't always bother me.  Some days I can ignor it.  But that day, at that moment it seemed too much to bear.   Sometimes a word or gesture of compassion can break down all our defences - but aren't we glad that people do know and care.

We are not alone . . .   that's how my creed starts.

Pilgrims Progress,

There are some good sides to having a good depression. For one thing you can stay in your most comfortable, ratty looking pyjamas all day. Makeup is optional and shaving your legs is out the window.

Seriously though, I thought about you alot when you started your poetry thread in relationships. You had mentioned that the anniversary of your John's death was coming up and when I noticed you were posting less and less, I wondered if that didn't set off a "trigger".

Just want you to know, I'll take you anyway you are at any given time. You are missed.

 for you Seeler. 

I had a positive day yesterday.

I took the advice of my best friend and asked Paula (my doctor) if I could see her regularly until I feel more like "me" again.

She thought it was a good idea - and will give her an opportunity to assess my medication. (The maintenance dose, and the level it needs to go up to when Mrs. Danvers comes down from the attic).

Seems my friend could see I wasn't well, but as she put it, "How can you tell your friend she needs to see her psychiatrist?"

(I can see her dilemma - I'm not as predictable when I'm not well.)

I also had lunch with Mum. She looks so sad, and seems to have aged ten years since Hughie's death.

She's such a gutsy lady.

She said, "I've enrolled in an archeology course here at the centre with your sister on Mondays. Monday was one of the days I spent at Hughie's place - and we have to do what we can, don't we love?"...............

A big hug to everyone at the cafe with health problems. Life sucks at times......

Right now church is one of the most difficult places for me.

Depression is about disconnection. I feel like an imposter - God might be there for me - but I'm not here for God.

I miss the connection that I have with faith........

As a group, they are the nicest folk you could hope to meet.

Maybe because right now I feel inadequate by comparison and don't like myself much, their care and concern fills me with shame........

aaah, pp, and yet ....they would likely open up their arms with love if only they could know you needed it.

ooh, pp, i wish i could let you know how wonderful you are, and that it would stick. 

thinking of you this night.

I can absolutely relate to what you are saying Pilgrims. There have been times when feeling that way has held me back from going to church. I felt unworthy being amongst all those wonderful people. The longer I stayed away, the more embarrassed and ashamed I felt when I finally did go back. Those were the days that I probably needed church the most. What worked for me was having a volunteer commitment, so that when I was feeling overwhelmed, I could step back and say I have to go and do my job. This works best, I think, if the job is during coffee hour (immediately following church). My job, of course, was as Sunday School teacher - the clean up of which happens during coffee hour.

For me church is a 'thin place', a place where the defences come down, where I am most exposed, and if my heart is breaking it is most vulnerable.   Naturally sometimes I feel I have to protect it.   One way to protect a broken heart is to stay away from 'thin places'.   But I think then I might be in danger or developing a 'heart of stone' that didn't feel anything.   So I go to my 'thin places', and sometimes I cry, and I feel embarassed at my weakness and my neediness when everybody around me seems so strong and giving.   But gradually I feel the healing. 

I don't know if that makes sense for anyone else. 

PilgrimsProgress,

I cannot thank you enough for this thread. This week in Canada we are "talking about it".
IT being mental illness. People do not realize how important talking is. It is how we know we are not alone. I know mental illness via my mom and I also know the pain of thinking "I am the only one" dealing with being gay. I know about isolation, stigma, the feeling of failure... the taboo, the inability to cry for help.... there is an unhappiness and a disconnect. There can be self-loathing and substance abuse... Perhaps that is why with not an easy childhood I felt understanding with regards to my mom.

I talk about it, because it helps others to know they are not alone, it helps society and it also flips a messed up society the finger and says "screw stigma we are all human with human stuff, folks". It helps those who have mental health issues and those who love them. (It is a struggle being the spouse/sibling/parent... of someone with mental health issues)

Part of the depression thing is shame "they will know/notice..." Part is the self-loathing and being around "normal" folks makes you feel it more.

We cannot know how many around us are also living with, struggling with, surviving _ if we keep it nicely tucked in the closet where we like our skeletons. One day, may we realize we cannot be whole and complete people with our bodies,minds, soul in one place and our skeletons in another.

Social stuff can be painful, awkward or terrifying or just too much. Will they notice? What will one say if they ask? How do you say, "I am mentally ill" or "My __ has a mental illness"? (Hopefully one day it will be no different than saying "I have diabetes")

The isolation can effect the whole family.

The effort to get up, get showered, get dressed can take all the "social" ability one has. Someone who is in the home with that person, may want respite and not a social event, so they too can feel it takes too much energy.

People can lose even the ability to function.

Wanting to be alone, covers over your head, not even caring to eat... how do you care for friends, family, church?

If you hate yourself, how do you let another love you or be warm? How do you sit over a meal knowing they care when you do not?

My mom could not let us hug her when the black dog was licking. A smile broke her heart. I understood because when "I wish I was dead" is in the back of your mind how do you let anything throw you a lifeline?

The isolation can be that you feel alone without hope, that you are a burden...

Other times, the isolation is to try to maintain relationships or because they have been strained.

Sometimes people are mean and nasty and short tempered. Moods can swing. Sometimes they are numb.

PilgrimsProgress, again thank you for your honesty and openness. You are willing to say what needs said. There are not enough words to thank you for your story and it being more than "I have depression". It is raw and human. It has likely effected someone to say "that is what it is like for me". It is courageous and it shows a love of others that you may not feel about yourself right now.

Those of you have stepped out of the shadows to say "me too", thank you.

Conversations like this can make it that one person decides they need help, they need to get another help... conversations like this save lives, they make early help more possible and they provide hope.

God bless you all

When I was most depressed I abandoned church and abandoned God, but God wasn't about to be put off so easily.

One day as I stood at the edge of a precipice, I felt a gentle hand holding me back.  There was no one else there....but I knew I was not alone.

God is with you Pilgims, suffering with you in your pain.  When the time is right, you will reconnect.  Grace is a wonderful gift, ever present.

Hugs, Pilgrim. This too shall pass. But it feels like it won't, I know, and it's so hard waiting for it to be over.

About that concept of 'everybody else doing just fine' or being 'wonderful' or 'coping fine' etc. - I know it can look like that but it's often NOT the case - they just don't talk about their trials & troubles, or feelings - perhaps are still affected/frightened by the stigma around issues of mental health, family discord, etc. etc. etc.  

Hi gecko:

Your experience at the edge of the precipice reminds me of the inner voice that said, "It is not as you think it is," when I sat by the river, about to blow out my brains with my rifle.

Shaken up to my innermost self, I abandoned the suicide attempt. If it was not as I thought it was, how was it? And what was it? I resolved to find out.

Well, I'm still finding out. But I agree with you: "We are not alone."

well, i just went out for the first time in a bit and W O W was it an experience -- instant awakening.  got a shave.  got to meet two wonderful east indian ladies with wonderful senses of humour.  got to meet a young man who looked just like someone from 90210.   picked up one of my addictions, nrg drinks 2 for $5.  saw some potential photos, this neat one of a tree doing the splits.  got to talk to one of my crow cousins.  i can feel the air on my cheeks again.

life is good

if satan had appeared, i`d have kissed her

carolla,

I agree with you on the "everyone doing fine/coping well/wonderful....." ILLUSION.

It is an illusion. If we only knew how many others struggle, whether personally or with a family member... How many?

How many that we think are FINE are NOT fine? How many do we think are FINE that have struggled or overcome or living with ___ that we think makes us not fine? That offers hope, "if they found the right therapist/medication/combination...there is hope for me"

It is like when I felt I was the only gay person. If every gay person had worn pink that day I would have seen just how un-alone I was. They didn't. They were scared and worried and concerned....it can be and is understandable.

The more others are invisible, the more we think we are alone or we think we should be.... (in the closet, keeping it private, not airing the laundry....)

The problem is that stigma breeds in silence.

Marginalization and invisibility/isolation are best friends.

Pilgrims Progress -- you are a wise woman with much courage. You are open and honest and willing to share your vulnerability with others. You will always be highly regarded here at wondercafe for all that you are, all the pieces of you. And when you are not able to be around much, you are missed and thought of.

I am glad you were able to post here, create this thread, and let people know the pain you have been experiencing, Pilgrim. As you can tell, many people have appreciated this thread and for many it has significant meaning. That is your gift, my friend - bringing this important, too often silenced topic out in the open. Those who have experienced depression find comfort here in knowing they are not alone, those who have walked the journey alongside someone who has experiened clinical depression can share worries and care, and those who do not have personal experience can learn and gain a greater understanding about depression and mental illness. And people do need to learn.

I appreciate your gifts, thank you for being you, Pilgrim. I also appreciate the others here who have risked and shared their stories. Gentle hugs to you Pilgrims Progress and to the many others here as well.

You know myst, as I read your post, I reflected on how many wise and wonderful voices I may never have "heard" had they not been able to find the way through the darkness (or received assistance/been escorted, etc)

I am thankful for each of you.....if I don't say it often enough, let me say it again.

I am thankful for you.